Necabo, yes, I do know that. But here is the thing. How many of the current players go and submit screenshots? How many requests BG on suspect players? My own opinion: almost no one.
2- If a player plays fishy or very good, and you do a BG check and find a VAC banned account, what does this say to you as admin?
8 years ago he was maybe 14 years old and cheated. Today, 8 years later, he's 22 years old and matured as a player and are very good without cheat...?
Yes.. this could the case... but is this the majority of VAC banned players?
And is it really the admins job to check if the VAC ban is from yesterday or 8 years ago?
I mean there is a reason why ACI livesecure has the option for auto kick VAC banned accounts. Btw this kick is only for active account and not for other accounts of a player.
We can also discuss a grace period on this forums (but at the end each admin will decide alone- many might not even fallow this forum at all.
In looking at my server stats on ACi, I found that after 1 month of activity, the server had a total of 1689 logins (as of today), with only 6 VAC kicks. I know it is not much of a sampler size, but I am not seeing much of a problem.
Pie, the solution to your questions is very simple (already posted it by the way). Players (including admins) need to stop being lazy and commit to the game by taking the time to submit the appropriate information to ACi, PBBans and the appropriate server admin. Let ACi, PBBans and the server admin investigate and issue a ban if needed. And if the server admin is not sure, then he can ask ACi/PBBans for help.
If a player is banned and wants to appeal, well it is up to that player to post a ban appeal on ACi, PBBans or on the server website.
well our server has (in the last 2 months)
214 kicks
1 Ban
from those 214 kicks
25 are AAPG bans from ACI
rest is VAC ban kick
Also some players actually tried to rejoin at some points.. so the number is not revised yet.
I also personally found 6 players using wall hack with video proof, which is posted on our servers (all of them with clean ACI BG)
And one of them actually got finally VAC banned in another game after calling us names for banning him with video proof.
I agree.. we must actually invest time try to prove guilt of player.. and I personally believe that I as admin am doing so.
But we must also acknowledge that there are simply too many haxxors in this game with such a small player base, where the legit protection actually does a miserable job to keep servers clean. So its also not so easy for committed admins to do their job properly.
And funny thing is, I also heard (i think from flatlander ) that some also complain about admins who actually take their job seriously.
The problem with VAC Ban is that it does not show for what you got it.
Thats the point.... So why not allow him to play AAPG!? Until he really does something wrong in our game.
You punish people actually for some mysterious bans,waiting for them to prove you something unproveable.
It is quite provable actually, he/she can show me for what he got that VAC ban and in what game for that matter..
+1 on Soldierbobs argument.
Why should he,whats your business with his steam details,you should prove that he is doing something fishy in this game /on your server if you want excuses not to let people play on your server,not that you need proof, heared plenty of friends complaining about the no reason no proof kicks on your server,i also read your witch hunt topics on the ACI forum based on 14-1 KD match screenshots,i don't care if you paid for it,stole the money from your parents credit card or begged people on the street for it,money is no excuse to misuse the little virtual power that is given to you on the internet.It's causing harm to this game,this topic is all about you hands down Apllepie.
Don't get me wrong,i hate cheaters ,don't miss a chance to voice my opinion ,present proof and bring down someone i'm convinced of cheating,but theres another side to the story,the story where admins on rented servers play small gods thinking money justifies everything what they do as in kick/ban accuse and start an endless wave of rumours about innocent and legit players.
P.s. what you write in this topic is completly different to what you write on ACI.The right word for you would be beeing a hypocrite.
I'm not saying this about Applepie, because I do not know much about him and his server, but I totally agree with the core of what you said.
People sometimes let the bit of virtual power go to their heads... Everybody hates cheaters, but banning 90% legit players 10% cheaters will not help anybody. It will just make good players leave the game because of the community server admins.
For us admin to do our job correctly, we need for players to stop screaming hacks and contribute in a productive fashion. Instead of screaming hacks and what not, write down the name of the player. Then go to ACi/PBBans and request a background check. Also email the server admin or post on the server website.
Necabo, yes, I do know that. But here is the thing. How many of the current players go and submit screenshots? How many requests BG on suspect players? My own opinion: almost no one.
How many dirty screenshots are there and why is it on the community ONLY to find them? I found dirty screenshots back on AA3 when I wasn't member on ACI and let someone else forward them, I'm sure others will do the same. Also I don't think it should be on the community but rather on the server admins to check their screenshots. However they should also provide the link to the screenshots so everyone can check on suspect players and most of the server admins don't provide these links.
The problem with VAC Ban is that it does not show for what you got it.
Thats the point.... So why not allow him to play AAPG!? Until he really does something wrong in our game.
You punish people actually for some mysterious bans,waiting for them to prove you something unproveable.
It is quite provable actually, he/she can show me for what he got that VAC ban and in what game for that matter..
+1 on Soldierbobs argument.
Why should he,whats your business with his steam details,you should prove that he is doing something fishy in this game /on your server if you want excuses not to let people play on your server,not that you need proof, heared plenty of friends complaining about the no reason no proof kicks on your server,i also read your witch hunt topics on the ACI forum based on 14-1 KD match screenshots,i don't care if you paid for it,stole the money from your parents credit card or begged people on the street for it,money is no excuse to misuse the little virtual power that is given to you on the internet.It's causing harm to this game,this topic is all about you hands down Apllepie.
Don't get me wrong,i hate cheaters ,don't miss a chance to voice my opinion ,present proof and bring down someone i'm convinced of cheating,but theres another side to the story,the story where admins on rented servers play small gods thinking money justifies everything what they do as in kick/ban accuse and start an endless wave of rumours about innocent and legit players.
P.s. what you write in this topic is completly different to what you write on ACI.The right word for you would be beeing a hypocrite.
I'm not saying this about Applepie, because I do not know much about him and his server, but I totally agree with the core of what you said.
People sometimes let the bit of virtual power go to their heads... Everybody hates cheaters, but banning 90% legit players 10% cheaters will not help anybody. It will just make good players leave the game because of the community server admins.
Bart the problem I had earlier with him was because if he accuses a player of being fishy, its ok, because he claims to know everything better than the rest.
When some admin he does not approve accuses someone, than the admin is a witch hunter.
I completely agree with the fact, that admins should not ban players for cheating unless they have some kinda a proof in form of video or pbss etc.
On the other hand I really dont believe the numbers are 90% innocent 10% legit bans etc.. at least on our server its completely other way around. (and here I am talking about players being banned for assumed cheating in game - and not for other reasons like repeatedly not following server rules)
But I believe there were numerous other threads, where the cancer of this game was pointed out for stacked game play in general which scares away new players. And I remember what actors were particularly involved in doing so over and over again.
I think before we go out there and only complain about server admins being the biggest issue (which i do not agree with) , we should rethink of the community atmosphere in general.
Necabo, yes, I do know that. But here is the thing. How many of the current players go and submit screenshots? How many requests BG on suspect players? My own opinion: almost no one.
How many dirty screenshots are there and why is it on the community ONLY to find them? I found dirty screenshots back on AA3 when I wasn't member on ACI and let someone else forward them, I'm sure others will do the same. Also I don't think it should be on the community but rather on the server admins to check their screenshots. However they should also provide the link to the screenshots so everyone can check on suspect players and most of the server admins don't provide these links.
well you dont need links from server admins for this.. simply download pbbs collector from ACI (i think its public) and it works with most game server providers from get go.
You can also visit gametracker site, all the servers running from gameservers.com are public there. you can search player names, guids, server search etc. Its very slow though compared to pbss collector.
Btw so much stuff lately do not show on pbss unfortunately..
On the other hand I really dont believe the numbers are 90% innocent 10% legit bans etc.. at least on our server its completely other way around. (and here I am talking about players being banned for assumed cheating in game - and not for other reasons like repeatedly not following server rules)
If you can't prove without a doubt that a player is cheating, then you are abusing your admin power.
This is the reason Even Balance (punkbuster) is so very carefull before issuing a hardware bans on someone.
Last year I was on one on the most popular private server for this game when the admin banned 2K2S because he believed those guys where to good to be honest.
I really felt it was a sad day for the comunity.
I think before we go out there and only complain about server admins being the biggest issue (which i do not agree with) , we should rethink of the community atmosphere in general.
The problem is not only with server admins.
If you are to good on a plublic server with a bunch on new player, it will not take long before you get votekicked for some dark reason.
The problem is the mentality that players are so good that nobody should be way better that them or nobody should be that good.
Necabo, yes, I do know that. But here is the thing. How many of the current players go and submit screenshots? How many requests BG on suspect players? My own opinion: almost no one.
How many dirty screenshots are there and why is it on the community ONLY to find them? I found dirty screenshots back on AA3 when I wasn't member on ACI and let someone else forward them, I'm sure others will do the same. Also I don't think it should be on the community but rather on the server admins to check their screenshots. However they should also provide the link to the screenshots so everyone can check on suspect players and most of the server admins don't provide these links.
well you dont need links from server admins for this.. simply download pbbs collector from ACI (i think its public) and it works with most game server providers from get go.
You can also visit gametracker site, all the servers running from gameservers.com are public there. you can search player names, guids, server search etc. Its very slow though compared to pbss collector.
Btw so much stuff lately do not show on pbss unfortunately..
Not sure if it's public since they recently restricted pretty much everything and even if I doubt people know about it. Only reason I became member was that even the history tool got limited and I'm still wondering why.. Reducing traffic? Really confused by that.
They limited the access because some famous youtuber on bf3 got ddosed....and they claimed it was because of the easy access to their ip's through the tool.Then dice started to go berserk on aci and bam...community down.They had to limit it to a closed group to be able to further collect their precious data from bf...and btw..at some point the head admin even posted that the AA devs arent cool with the tool too.
yeah its actually really sad what happened with DICE. now they don't even disclose MAC addresses for IP match so you don't really know if its the same machine or not.
However its still the best tool you can find out there to do BG checks.
The problem is not only with server admins.
If you are to good on a public server with a bunch on new player, it will not take long before you get votekicked for some dark reason.
The problem is the mentality that players are so good that nobody should be way better that them or nobody should be that good.
Well its also not only the new players or bad players accuse others like that.. I have heard from many comp players the same stuff about other comp players. Like I said in one of my earlier posts, the general distrust in the current community is the main problem. That clan bashes this clan, that players calls this player bs etc etc..
this is happening in every section of the player base, regardless of skill level or game knowledge.
And its natural that some new players who hardly know the game and do not understand whats possible and whats not, will think something is fishy about a very high skilled player.
Of course I agree with the fact, that it becomes a bigger problem if biased accusations come from an admin of a server rather than a solo player who is new.
I don't know, maybe I am getting too old for this, but I had the feeling the community was somewhat more gentleman-like back in the years 2002-2005. People respected each other more in game, we had less trolls joining a server just to do some crap to [TOS Violation] of other players. Today I even see some ppl wearing the same tag joining and teamkilling others for the fun of it.. This type of mentality of course wont stop there, if they feel the need they sure wont hesitate using some extra sauce to get advantage, cos they simply do not respect their fellow players.
It is our server, we pay for it. So if we think or want to ban, we do it, no need for explanation there are more then 400 other servers, go and have fun.
Guys, instead of making fun of the admin who thinks this is hacking, why don't you tell him about the spectate mode bugs like seeing someone unscoped while he is actually scoped etc, or the time shift of spectate mode for hit registration.
you know you complain about admins but go out and bash them on forums instead of trying to be a community (which is dying rapidly btw) who supports and talks to each other in a normal way.
you call everyone noob or other stuff who (in your opinion) lack he same experience or skill in this game, but expect fair treatment from them.
this is what I mean with the sad current situation and atmosphere in AAPG
now sit back and think for a second:
if you didnt know the player personally or his skill level, and you see him doing 43:3 on the server and you go to spectate and see this whats shown in the video.
To what conclusion would you come. You hope for undeniable proof, but with so many bugs any player who is actually using some haxxs can blame the engine or spectate mode for his video proof.
I know tidididi very well, so I personally can assume its the spectate bug for his shooting unscoped in garden, cos he would never take the risk of being unscoped with m24 in that situation and position. But not everyone can know that.
Still, there are better ways to deal with those accusations. If you laugh at the admin and call him names, he will not listen to your opinion cos you insult him. If he asks you about some weird situation, you can tell him your perspective, and the chance of getting a positive response is higher.
It is our server, we pay for it. So if we think or want to ban, we do it, no need for explanation there are more then 400 other servers, go and have fun.
Comments
Yes.. this could the case... but is this the majority of VAC banned players?
And is it really the admins job to check if the VAC ban is from yesterday or 8 years ago?
I mean there is a reason why ACI livesecure has the option for auto kick VAC banned accounts. Btw this kick is only for active account and not for other accounts of a player.
We can also discuss a grace period on this forums (but at the end each admin will decide alone- many might not even fallow this forum at all.
well our server has (in the last 2 months)
214 kicks
1 Ban
from those 214 kicks
25 are AAPG bans from ACI
rest is VAC ban kick
Also some players actually tried to rejoin at some points.. so the number is not revised yet.
I also personally found 6 players using wall hack with video proof, which is posted on our servers (all of them with clean ACI BG)
And one of them actually got finally VAC banned in another game after calling us names for banning him with video proof.
I agree.. we must actually invest time try to prove guilt of player.. and I personally believe that I as admin am doing so.
But we must also acknowledge that there are simply too many haxxors in this game with such a small player base, where the legit protection actually does a miserable job to keep servers clean. So its also not so easy for committed admins to do their job properly.
And funny thing is, I also heard (i think from flatlander ) that some also complain about admins who actually take their job seriously.
People sometimes let the bit of virtual power go to their heads... Everybody hates cheaters, but banning 90% legit players 10% cheaters will not help anybody. It will just make good players leave the game because of the community server admins.
How many dirty screenshots are there and why is it on the community ONLY to find them? I found dirty screenshots back on AA3 when I wasn't member on ACI and let someone else forward them, I'm sure others will do the same. Also I don't think it should be on the community but rather on the server admins to check their screenshots. However they should also provide the link to the screenshots so everyone can check on suspect players and most of the server admins don't provide these links.
I love this community!
Bart the problem I had earlier with him was because if he accuses a player of being fishy, its ok, because he claims to know everything better than the rest.
When some admin he does not approve accuses someone, than the admin is a witch hunter.
I completely agree with the fact, that admins should not ban players for cheating unless they have some kinda a proof in form of video or pbss etc.
On the other hand I really dont believe the numbers are 90% innocent 10% legit bans etc.. at least on our server its completely other way around. (and here I am talking about players being banned for assumed cheating in game - and not for other reasons like repeatedly not following server rules)
But I believe there were numerous other threads, where the cancer of this game was pointed out for stacked game play in general which scares away new players. And I remember what actors were particularly involved in doing so over and over again.
I think before we go out there and only complain about server admins being the biggest issue (which i do not agree with) , we should rethink of the community atmosphere in general.
I love this community!
well you dont need links from server admins for this.. simply download pbbs collector from ACI (i think its public) and it works with most game server providers from get go.
You can also visit gametracker site, all the servers running from gameservers.com are public there. you can search player names, guids, server search etc. Its very slow though compared to pbss collector.
Btw so much stuff lately do not show on pbss unfortunately..
yep
If you can't prove without a doubt that a player is cheating, then you are abusing your admin power.
This is the reason Even Balance (punkbuster) is so very carefull before issuing a hardware bans on someone.
Last year I was on one on the most popular private server for this game when the admin banned 2K2S because he believed those guys where to good to be honest.
I really felt it was a sad day for the comunity.
The problem is not only with server admins.
If you are to good on a plublic server with a bunch on new player, it will not take long before you get votekicked for some dark reason.
The problem is the mentality that players are so good that nobody should be way better that them or nobody should be that good.
Not sure if it's public since they recently restricted pretty much everything and even if I doubt people know about it. Only reason I became member was that even the history tool got limited and I'm still wondering why.. Reducing traffic? Really confused by that.
I love this community!
I love this community!
However its still the best tool you can find out there to do BG checks.
Well its also not only the new players or bad players accuse others like that.. I have heard from many comp players the same stuff about other comp players. Like I said in one of my earlier posts, the general distrust in the current community is the main problem. That clan bashes this clan, that players calls this player bs etc etc..
this is happening in every section of the player base, regardless of skill level or game knowledge.
And its natural that some new players who hardly know the game and do not understand whats possible and whats not, will think something is fishy about a very high skilled player.
Of course I agree with the fact, that it becomes a bigger problem if biased accusations come from an admin of a server rather than a solo player who is new.
I don't know, maybe I am getting too old for this, but I had the feeling the community was somewhat more gentleman-like back in the years 2002-2005. People respected each other more in game, we had less trolls joining a server just to do some crap to [TOS Violation] of other players. Today I even see some ppl wearing the same tag joining and teamkilling others for the fun of it.. This type of mentality of course wont stop there, if they feel the need they sure wont hesitate using some extra sauce to get advantage, cos they simply do not respect their fellow players.
Good that you own no server :P
100% hax, get him banned!
Achievements
Youtube
Steam
you know you complain about admins but go out and bash them on forums instead of trying to be a community (which is dying rapidly btw) who supports and talks to each other in a normal way.
you call everyone noob or other stuff who (in your opinion) lack he same experience or skill in this game, but expect fair treatment from them.
this is what I mean with the sad current situation and atmosphere in AAPG
now sit back and think for a second:
if you didnt know the player personally or his skill level, and you see him doing 43:3 on the server and you go to spectate and see this whats shown in the video.
To what conclusion would you come. You hope for undeniable proof, but with so many bugs any player who is actually using some haxxs can blame the engine or spectate mode for his video proof.
I know tidididi very well, so I personally can assume its the spectate bug for his shooting unscoped in garden, cos he would never take the risk of being unscoped with m24 in that situation and position. But not everyone can know that.
Still, there are better ways to deal with those accusations. If you laugh at the admin and call him names, he will not listen to your opinion cos you insult him. If he asks you about some weird situation, you can tell him your perspective, and the chance of getting a positive response is higher.
so necabo... now you can post your love song here
Gave up on that a looooooong time ago.