Well you nailed it Doba.. this is the simple fact.. the caught and proven players who cheated in game in relation to the number of players actively playing this game is horrible. And tbh this is just the top of the iceberg.. pb used to be much better in aa2 times, still wasnt the best protection out there but at least better than today..
So you see badmins as the cancer of the game, but what about that great number of players who actually cheat playing AAPG??
You know back in the day, when we first started AA0, ppl only used cheats if they lacked skills, and we laughed at them. But later more and more skilled players are looking for that extra sauce to get some edge in game. i.e tweaks for visuals if they are not locked, etc etc..
I am not saying there are no badmins out there, who kick and ban ppl for stupid reasons. But we shouldnt deny the fact, there are so many cheaters out there.
Well atleast in EU side I havent seen any "great numbers" of cheaters. Ofcourse in every single match someone is callin somebody dirty, just because they are good, but I have spectated players enough to say that most of those calls are BS.
Kicking just because large amount of kills is stupid, and I see it alot. There still is clans who understand to spectate, get some kind of proof about cheating and leave it, if they dont find anything, but that amount is decreasing rapidly. Just to be sure should not be reason enough. Its not fair against people who has worked hard to be good, and end up no server to play because people are paranoid.
Dont get me wrong here, I dont like cheaters anymore than U do, believe me. Its only about the innocent people who are kicked over and over again without any reason... that fact we shouldnt forget either.
Dem@n's video thread showed it's possible for people to draw false conclusions even with rewind and slow motion, let alone just spectating in real time.
Nobody has to pass a test to run a server. Some admins are going to get it wrong. Some won't apologize for their false accusations even after being proven wrong. It's not uniquely an AAPG problem, either.
Battlefield 4 found a pretty reasonable solution to this. Server admins get to choose which category of server they want to run:
Official. Admins have no kick or move powers. Stats are recorded. "Quick Join" players can be paired to these servers. Very few settings can be changed. "Missions" can only be completed in these servers.
Ranked. Admins have kick and move powers. Stats are recorded. Only visible via server browser. Slightly more settings can be changed.
Unranked. Admins have full control over all settings. Stats are not recorded. Only visible via server browser.
Dem@n's video thread showed it's possible for people to draw false conclusions even with rewind and slow motion, let alone just spectating in real time.
Nobody has to pass a test to run a server. Some admins are going to get it wrong. Some won't apologize for their false accusations even after being proven wrong. It's not uniquely an AAPG problem, either.
Battlefield 4 found a pretty reasonable solution to this. Server admins get to choose which category of server they want to run:
Official. Admins have no kick or move powers. Stats are recorded. "Quick Join" players can be paired to these servers. Very few settings can be changed. "Missions" can only be completed in these servers.
Ranked. Admins have kick and move powers. Stats are recorded. Only visible via server browser. Slightly more settings can be changed.
Unranked. Admins have full control over all settings. Stats are not recorded. Only visible via server browser.
For me this is the biggest issue. The incompetence of admins (and the player base), not regarding actual server management but general gameplay.
Im not trying to sounds rude but the average player in this game is really really bad. If you have mediocre aiming abilities and play with a headset you are instantly in the top bracket. I feel like most of the player base never ventured to other games or any competitive scene. Their lack of knowledge makes for a lot of false accusations. At one point I was banned on so many servers i set up a twitch stream for every time i played to prevent the bans.
But even with all the hate, there are really good admins out there. Some admin helped me out with some checks, he explained all the different procedures and helped me set up (topic he made for me http://www.elite-shooters.com/home/index.php?topic=1648.msg7465;topicseen#new ). These people give me hope, this is how you make a community.
Well atleast in EU side I havent seen any "great numbers" of cheaters. Ofcourse in every single match someone is callin somebody dirty, just because they are good, but I have spectated players enough to say that most of those calls are BS.
Well I dont know where you play and how much you see.. but a simple check on ACI Banlist or PBBans List, will reveal not small number of caught players while using hacks.
Just check this public link from ACI Livesecure..
[mod edit - naming/shaming]
all this kicks are done without admin input.. because these players have been officially caught cheating. This is only a single server.. If you think its fairy-tale, please do visit ACI or PPBANs and check the master banlists...
I also find it funny (and also fishy or antisocial) if a person has to make lets say 8 accounts with even more name changes for a game which is so far only beta. So if any of you is a ACI member.. pls go and check lets say the OP
Dem@n's video thread showed it's possible for people to draw false conclusions even with rewind and slow motion, let alone just spectating in real time.
Nobody has to pass a test to run a server. Some admins are going to get it wrong. Some won't apologize for their false accusations even after being proven wrong. It's not uniquely an AAPG problem, either.
This is also true.. this game, especially the spectate mode has lots of bugs, and its not always clear what you see. For example, sometimes the person you spectate gets flashed, but you don't get white screen at all as spectator, although he is perfectly flashed. Other times you get white screen, while the player is not flashed at all.
In other cases you see a player hip firing, while he/she is actually scoped etc etc. You can, however, with a simple trick reset such bug by simply tabbing between different players and coming back to the one you want to spectate.
Still I have seen a lot of players clearly using wall hacks, or no recoil/no sway/no breathing hacks/tweaks. Quite many more players are using bugs like running nades, looking or shooting through walls (map glitches) they are not supposed to, or even worse lately I have seen an increased number of players using the crawl bug, where they can run around or stand behind couches and cannot be seen by enemy, while peeking around corners or being in supported postion behind objects etc.. cos their animation is registered for other clients as a proned player. So when they peak around corners while standing perfectly on their POW, their in game animation is safe behind the object in prone, cos there is no prone lean in game. When we caught a player doing this constantly, first we were surprised why his nades were going through walls, cos he was in prone. But for him, he was simply leaning around corner, and throwing happily nades to his opponents.
Some might argue that using glitches or bugs are acquired skills, cos you know the game or map like your back pocket, well I disagree. If you need stuff like this to overpower you opponent, for me you are no different than a person who goes out and buys/download some haxs.
So I think its silly to argue, that all accusations out there are baseless badmin mojo.. cos its not.
Some might be bs as you call it, but others are not.
5 players over the course of a month getting kicked for previous bans isn't exactly a lot. In fact only one player was caught cheating on that server over the course of 2 months. That's hardly alarming. That page is bloated with kicks for VAC bans completely unrelated to AAPG. I'm not trying to say there is or isn't a problem, just saying that live list is hardly compelling.
I agree with the OP that this is something that needs to stop and can become annoying.
As a matter of fact, I just messaged one of my guys to ask him to not do it anymore. At the end of the day, we cant go around accusing people of hacking. If a player has proof, then submit it to the ACi/PBBans and inform the server admin
On the Warriors Gaming server, we don't ban because of people accusations. If proof or suspicion, then it needs to be submitted to ACi/PBBans and on our website at http://w-gaming.org
To come back to the OP comments, I also think it is important for the growth of the community to stop making hacking accusations in public. There is a reason we have ACi/PBBans. There is a reason servers have usually contact info.
Besides some known clowns it's usually randoms that are new to the game making the accusations. I doubt you reach those in this forum tbh, so it'll just stay the same.
5 players over the course of a month getting kicked for previous bans isn't exactly a lot. In fact only one player was caught cheating on that server over the course of 2 months. That's hardly alarming. That page is bloated with kicks for VAC bans completely unrelated to AAPG. I'm not trying to say there is or isn't a problem, just saying that live list is hardly compelling.
well this is just one server, and all the ones who has 1 or more VAC bans are quite relevant for me as server admin. Cos that they haven't got caught by pb in AAPG does say very little, since other games have superior protection to AAPG. I also urge to check the masterbanlists for AAPG before you claim the number being small.
I agree with the OP that this is something that needs to stop and can become annoying.
As a matter of fact, I just messaged one of my guys to ask him to not do it anymore. At the end of the day, we cant go around accusing people of hacking. If a player has proof, then submit it to the ACi/PBBans and inform the server admin
On the Warriors Gaming server, we don't ban because of people accusations. If proof or suspicion, then it needs to be submitted to ACi/PBBans and on our website at http://w-gaming.org
To come back to the OP comments, I also think it is important for the growth of the community to stop making hacking accusations in public. There is a reason we have ACi/PBBans. There is a reason servers have usually contact info.
As you know ACI only accepts streamed pbss as proof of cheating. No video evidence is accepted, cos it can be altered or can not be check for authenticity with the current pbsv log system.
So please tell me, how you can prove lets say speed hack on a pbss? Or the know fact of ESP wall hack which does not show on pbss at all? I can PM you at least a dozen players (including one of our ex members) using this hack blantly but still showing a clean status on AAPG Banlists.
I do however agree that admins should not accuse players publicly, but in the heat of the moment we all get a bit personal I guess. If you would only see how many steam messages I receive during a game, from so many different players (including top known comp players) warning me about someone in the server using some kinda cheat, you would be really suprised.
5 players over the course of a month getting kicked for previous bans isn't exactly a lot. In fact only one player was caught cheating on that server over the course of 2 months. That's hardly alarming. That page is bloated with kicks for VAC bans completely unrelated to AAPG. I'm not trying to say there is or isn't a problem, just saying that live list is hardly compelling.
Yep. Mostly VAC bans from who knows how long ago and many, many duplicates that make the list look longer.
PBBans has 102 recorded bans for dirty actions in AAPG. ACI has 437. Meanwhile, 500,000+ different accounts have played the game. 1 in 1000 players getting caught is actually, I suspect, a really low number for an online FPS. The real rate is higher for a variety of reasons (insert logic here), I just agree that ACI or PB data isn't evidence of a major problem.
Let's compare to BF3. PBBans has 73,000 bans on file. While BF3 has sold 17 million copies, only 2.75 million are on PC. That's a capture rate of 2.6%, WAY higher than AAPG's.
So the possible takeaways I get:
1) AAPG has far fewer dirty players (0.1% vs 2.6%)
2) Dirty players aren't caught as well in AAPG as in BF3
3) Some mix of the two
I am definitely aware of the ACi limitations.
As far as I am concerned (and I just said the same thing to one of my guys), I have no problem issuing a server ban if I have the proof. Feel free to submit the proof on here.
But for me, the main thing is simple. There is a right way to ban and a wrong way to ban. Banning a player just because someone is accusing him of hacking is not the right way. Banning because a proof is available and has been submitted, that is the right way.
5 players over the course of a month getting kicked for previous bans isn't exactly a lot. In fact only one player was caught cheating on that server over the course of 2 months. That's hardly alarming. That page is bloated with kicks for VAC bans completely unrelated to AAPG. I'm not trying to say there is or isn't a problem, just saying that live list is hardly compelling.
Yep. Mostly VAC bans from who knows how long ago and many, many duplicates that make the list look longer.
PBBans has 102 recorded bans for dirty actions in AAPG. ACI has 437. Meanwhile, 500,000+ different accounts have played the game. 1 in 1000 players getting caught is actually, I suspect, a really low number for an online FPS. The real rate is higher for a variety of reasons (insert logic here), I just agree that ACI or PB data isn't evidence of a major problem.
Let's compare to BF3. PBBans has 73,000 bans on file. While BF3 has sold 17 million copies, only 2.75 million are on PC. That's a capture rate of 2.6%, WAY higher than AAPG's.
So the possible takeaways I get:
1) AAPG has far fewer dirty players (0.1% vs 2.6%)
2) Dirty players aren't caught as well in AAPG as in BF3
3) Some mix of the two
I'd vote 2.
But yeah, I think AAPG doesn't have that many compared to other games. However I still see a lot of people who can't spot the difference between being good and cheating. Leads to accusations on on hand, leads to cheaters not being kicked from official servers on the other hand, both being really annoying.
This whole vacban thing is just ridiculous imo....i am really wondering why the devs even allow to run a script that blocks player to play aapg for something that has nothing to do with this game at all.
I do however agree that admins should not accuse players publicly, but in the heat of the moment we all get a bit personal I guess. If you would only see how many steam messages I receive during a game, from so many different players (including top known comp players) warning me about someone in the server using some kinda cheat, you would be really suprised.
I am surprised I only got kicked from there once. Hopefully you opened your eyes.
Sounds pretty simple to me... You pay for a server then you can have what ever rules or people you want on them. If you want to accuse people, kick them, ban them, whatever, I've got no problems with that. The server is their property. Just go somewhere else.
Do people violate TOS agreements? They sure do, and in the multitudes. Just go somewhere else.
This whole vacban thing is just ridiculous imo....i am really wondering why the devs even allow to run a script that blocks player to play aapg for something that has nothing to do with this game at all.
I said this before and I think people still don't know that VAC bans are also caused by things like costum skins, fps unlocker or other harmless changes to a game. A VAC ban also is limited to the game or game series while the person is still able to play the other games on the steam account.
when the community is so small realistically, not statistically .. a few here and there seem like a lot .. especially in comp where were fighting among ~8 teams and 1~2 are dirty lol thats my realistic %
I got a funny one the other night, where I thought he was just jokin, he and his teammates were on the other team so they didn't kick me.. they all quit emptying the server.. I chuckled
Why not grab some iron sights , no nades... single shot, turn off the HUD or Min HUD challenge yourself, instead of create an environment like that? especially being a BETA.
Playing to the SUPER SCORE is such a BORE be something MORE.
5 players over the course of a month getting kicked for previous bans isn't exactly a lot. In fact only one player was caught cheating on that server over the course of 2 months. That's hardly alarming. That page is bloated with kicks for VAC bans completely unrelated to AAPG. I'm not trying to say there is or isn't a problem, just saying that live list is hardly compelling.
Yep. Mostly VAC bans from who knows how long ago and many, many duplicates that make the list look longer.
PBBans has 102 recorded bans for dirty actions in AAPG. ACI has 437. Meanwhile, 500,000+ different accounts have played the game. 1 in 1000 players getting caught is actually, I suspect, a really low number for an online FPS. The real rate is higher for a variety of reasons (insert logic here), I just agree that ACI or PB data isn't evidence of a major problem.
Let's compare to BF3. PBBans has 73,000 bans on file. While BF3 has sold 17 million copies, only 2.75 million are on PC. That's a capture rate of 2.6%, WAY higher than AAPG's.
So the possible takeaways I get:
1) AAPG has far fewer dirty players (0.1% vs 2.6%)
2) Dirty players aren't caught as well in AAPG as in BF3
3) Some mix of the two
I would say it is a mix of 1 and 2. ACi and PBBans are doing a great job, but we as a community need to do a better job ourselves. And that starts by reporting suspect players to ACi/PBBans and the server owner, and proving appropriate proof. Screaming in the server or repeatedly messaging the admin on Steam or whatever other place is not reporting.
ACi and PBBans have forums. Servers have normally contact info available on the server info page or in the scrolling messages. Players need to take the time to submit the info, so that it can be processed correctly.
5 players over the course of a month getting kicked for previous bans isn't exactly a lot. In fact only one player was caught cheating on that server over the course of 2 months. That's hardly alarming. That page is bloated with kicks for VAC bans completely unrelated to AAPG. I'm not trying to say there is or isn't a problem, just saying that live list is hardly compelling.
Yep. Mostly VAC bans from who knows how long ago and many, many duplicates that make the list look longer.
PBBans has 102 recorded bans for dirty actions in AAPG. ACI has 437. Meanwhile, 500,000+ different accounts have played the game. 1 in 1000 players getting caught is actually, I suspect, a really low number for an online FPS. The real rate is higher for a variety of reasons (insert logic here), I just agree that ACI or PB data isn't evidence of a major problem.
Let's compare to BF3. PBBans has 73,000 bans on file. While BF3 has sold 17 million copies, only 2.75 million are on PC. That's a capture rate of 2.6%, WAY higher than AAPG's.
So the possible takeaways I get:
1) AAPG has far fewer dirty players (0.1% vs 2.6%)
2) Dirty players aren't caught as well in AAPG as in BF3
3) Some mix of the two
I would say it is a mix of 1 and 2. ACi and PBBans are doing a great job, but we as a community need to do a better job ourselves. And that starts by reporting suspect players to ACi/PBBans and the server owner, and proving appropriate proof. Screaming in the server or repeatedly messaging the admin on Steam or whatever other place is not reporting.
ACi and PBBans have forums. Servers have normally contact info available on the server info page or in the scrolling messages. Players need to take the time to submit the info, so that it can be processed correctly.
"ACI is doing a good job but the community needs to do a better job". Now find the contradiction.
Comments
Well atleast in EU side I havent seen any "great numbers" of cheaters. Ofcourse in every single match someone is callin somebody dirty, just because they are good, but I have spectated players enough to say that most of those calls are BS.
Kicking just because large amount of kills is stupid, and I see it alot. There still is clans who understand to spectate, get some kind of proof about cheating and leave it, if they dont find anything, but that amount is decreasing rapidly. Just to be sure should not be reason enough. Its not fair against people who has worked hard to be good, and end up no server to play because people are paranoid.
Dont get me wrong here, I dont like cheaters anymore than U do, believe me. Its only about the innocent people who are kicked over and over again without any reason... that fact we shouldnt forget either.
Nobody has to pass a test to run a server. Some admins are going to get it wrong. Some won't apologize for their false accusations even after being proven wrong. It's not uniquely an AAPG problem, either.
Battlefield 4 found a pretty reasonable solution to this. Server admins get to choose which category of server they want to run:
What about me?!
Over 2k Golden Hawkeyes.
For me this is the biggest issue. The incompetence of admins (and the player base), not regarding actual server management but general gameplay.
Im not trying to sounds rude but the average player in this game is really really bad. If you have mediocre aiming abilities and play with a headset you are instantly in the top bracket. I feel like most of the player base never ventured to other games or any competitive scene. Their lack of knowledge makes for a lot of false accusations. At one point I was banned on so many servers i set up a twitch stream for every time i played to prevent the bans.
But even with all the hate, there are really good admins out there. Some admin helped me out with some checks, he explained all the different procedures and helped me set up (topic he made for me http://www.elite-shooters.com/home/index.php?topic=1648.msg7465;topicseen#new ). These people give me hope, this is how you make a community.
Props to all you guys trying to make it better
Well I dont know where you play and how much you see.. but a simple check on ACI Banlist or PBBans List, will reveal not small number of caught players while using hacks.
Just check this public link from ACI Livesecure..
[mod edit - naming/shaming]
all this kicks are done without admin input.. because these players have been officially caught cheating. This is only a single server.. If you think its fairy-tale, please do visit ACI or PPBANs and check the master banlists...
I also find it funny (and also fishy or antisocial) if a person has to make lets say 8 accounts with even more name changes for a game which is so far only beta. So if any of you is a ACI member.. pls go and check lets say the OP
This is also true.. this game, especially the spectate mode has lots of bugs, and its not always clear what you see. For example, sometimes the person you spectate gets flashed, but you don't get white screen at all as spectator, although he is perfectly flashed. Other times you get white screen, while the player is not flashed at all.
In other cases you see a player hip firing, while he/she is actually scoped etc etc. You can, however, with a simple trick reset such bug by simply tabbing between different players and coming back to the one you want to spectate.
Still I have seen a lot of players clearly using wall hacks, or no recoil/no sway/no breathing hacks/tweaks. Quite many more players are using bugs like running nades, looking or shooting through walls (map glitches) they are not supposed to, or even worse lately I have seen an increased number of players using the crawl bug, where they can run around or stand behind couches and cannot be seen by enemy, while peeking around corners or being in supported postion behind objects etc.. cos their animation is registered for other clients as a proned player. So when they peak around corners while standing perfectly on their POW, their in game animation is safe behind the object in prone, cos there is no prone lean in game. When we caught a player doing this constantly, first we were surprised why his nades were going through walls, cos he was in prone. But for him, he was simply leaning around corner, and throwing happily nades to his opponents.
Some might argue that using glitches or bugs are acquired skills, cos you know the game or map like your back pocket, well I disagree. If you need stuff like this to overpower you opponent, for me you are no different than a person who goes out and buys/download some haxs.
So I think its silly to argue, that all accusations out there are baseless badmin mojo.. cos its not.
Some might be bs as you call it, but others are not.
LETS GO PENS
As a matter of fact, I just messaged one of my guys to ask him to not do it anymore. At the end of the day, we cant go around accusing people of hacking. If a player has proof, then submit it to the ACi/PBBans and inform the server admin
On the Warriors Gaming server, we don't ban because of people accusations. If proof or suspicion, then it needs to be submitted to ACi/PBBans and on our website at http://w-gaming.org
To come back to the OP comments, I also think it is important for the growth of the community to stop making hacking accusations in public. There is a reason we have ACi/PBBans. There is a reason servers have usually contact info.
I love this community!
well this is just one server, and all the ones who has 1 or more VAC bans are quite relevant for me as server admin. Cos that they haven't got caught by pb in AAPG does say very little, since other games have superior protection to AAPG. I also urge to check the masterbanlists for AAPG before you claim the number being small.
As you know ACI only accepts streamed pbss as proof of cheating. No video evidence is accepted, cos it can be altered or can not be check for authenticity with the current pbsv log system.
So please tell me, how you can prove lets say speed hack on a pbss? Or the know fact of ESP wall hack which does not show on pbss at all? I can PM you at least a dozen players (including one of our ex members) using this hack blantly but still showing a clean status on AAPG Banlists.
I do however agree that admins should not accuse players publicly, but in the heat of the moment we all get a bit personal I guess. If you would only see how many steam messages I receive during a game, from so many different players (including top known comp players) warning me about someone in the server using some kinda cheat, you would be really suprised.
PBBans has 102 recorded bans for dirty actions in AAPG. ACI has 437. Meanwhile, 500,000+ different accounts have played the game. 1 in 1000 players getting caught is actually, I suspect, a really low number for an online FPS. The real rate is higher for a variety of reasons (insert logic here), I just agree that ACI or PB data isn't evidence of a major problem.
Let's compare to BF3. PBBans has 73,000 bans on file. While BF3 has sold 17 million copies, only 2.75 million are on PC. That's a capture rate of 2.6%, WAY higher than AAPG's.
So the possible takeaways I get:
1) AAPG has far fewer dirty players (0.1% vs 2.6%)
2) Dirty players aren't caught as well in AAPG as in BF3
3) Some mix of the two
As far as I am concerned (and I just said the same thing to one of my guys), I have no problem issuing a server ban if I have the proof. Feel free to submit the proof on here.
But for me, the main thing is simple. There is a right way to ban and a wrong way to ban. Banning a player just because someone is accusing him of hacking is not the right way. Banning because a proof is available and has been submitted, that is the right way.
I'd vote 2.
But yeah, I think AAPG doesn't have that many compared to other games. However I still see a lot of people who can't spot the difference between being good and cheating. Leads to accusations on on hand, leads to cheaters not being kicked from official servers on the other hand, both being really annoying.
I love this community!
I am surprised I only got kicked from there once. Hopefully you opened your eyes.
Over 2k Golden Hawkeyes.
Do people violate TOS agreements? They sure do, and in the multitudes. Just go somewhere else.
I said this before and I think people still don't know that VAC bans are also caused by things like costum skins, fps unlocker or other harmless changes to a game. A VAC ban also is limited to the game or game series while the person is still able to play the other games on the steam account.
I love this community!
#Support Comp Mode
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN4YhM6jUB2MxVj8i3b9rhw
Why not grab some iron sights , no nades... single shot, turn off the HUD or Min HUD challenge yourself, instead of create an environment like that? especially being a BETA.
Playing to the SUPER SCORE is such a BORE be something MORE.
_________________________
********Bam4D********BE ALL (THAT) YOU CAN BE!
________Army 1980_________
I would say it is a mix of 1 and 2. ACi and PBBans are doing a great job, but we as a community need to do a better job ourselves. And that starts by reporting suspect players to ACi/PBBans and the server owner, and proving appropriate proof. Screaming in the server or repeatedly messaging the admin on Steam or whatever other place is not reporting.
ACi and PBBans have forums. Servers have normally contact info available on the server info page or in the scrolling messages. Players need to take the time to submit the info, so that it can be processed correctly.
"ACI is doing a good job but the community needs to do a better job". Now find the contradiction.
I love this community!