Audio Question for the Community

CaterPCaterP Posts: 190Developer
Audio seems to be a constant point of criticism and we do want to address it as best able.

To try to get to a common ground of what people think is good vs. bad, what would be an example of a modern game in a similar genre with good audio?

Thanks!
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Comments

  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 630Player
    Haters gonna hate but i really liked the sound of AA3.
    AAPG is good!
  • SoldierBobSoldierBob Posts: 76Player
    edited June 2015
    I would say 80% of sounds are great! really like the sounds of bullets whizzing around and echo of high powered rifle shots when fired outdoors. little things like bullet casings hitting the floor I really like and some of the weapon discharge sounds, the Shotgun, SAW and M24 are very cool in particular, the M4 seems a little tame and I can't compare it's sound with anything I've heard before, in any game but I'm not a fan.

    My biggest concern is the things like not being able to hear shots or other sounds like grenade blasts sometimes, you just die without a peep. Also not being able to tell where the fire is coming from is annoying, and for some strange reason I can't hear someone approaching me from behind my position, like at all. I just see a pair of arms come around my throat.
  • i9.liquidi9.liquid Posts: 21Player
    America's Army 2.x
  • ddra-ddra- Posts: 455Player
    CS:GO
    Insurgency
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  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Insurgency yes!!
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  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Common theme is more real life sounds over these mocked up sounds..

    AA3 can be a good example because the guns were based more on real life sounds...more so than AAPG
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  • -hyperlite--hyperlite- Posts: 104Player
    That's a question that could be easily answered if you followed the forums over the open beta period. The biggest complaints were the inconsistency of the sound and the z-axis.

    On numerous occasions within a 20 meter radius the sound would drop and become very sporadic. Which is the reason for a lot of people getting choked out because they couldn't hear anything behind them.

    The elevation factor is pretty self explanatory. The only reason a majority of people could tell if someone was above or below them was from the sound of the surface that the opposing player was on.

    There has been a ton of feedback for each of the opt-ins and very little progress has been made. The sound in the opt-ins should resemble the same sound in the open beta but with more consistency and a Z-axis.

    Single fire puts out a different sound frequency than auto. Your own character still makes too much noise. Looked like the footsteps got quieter between opt-in 3 and 4. There are still places on maps that do not resemble the surface the pawn is on.
    The c4 plant sites on cold front are stupidly loud when the radar moves around. There is just so much inconsistent sound levels throughout most of the maps. I think a lot of it has to do with the occlusion garbage.

    We have one week left before release and 1 guy that does the sound. It should be all guys on deck helping out whatever they can for Soundy.

    People don't play the opt-ins because the sound is so bad right? What do you think is gonna happen next week when you release this game and get a few handfuls of new players here, and they hear first hand what the sound is like from the U.S. Army. Couple that with PB and watch what happens.
  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    edited June 2015
    Audio seems to be a constant point of criticism and we do want to address it as best able.

    To try to get to a common ground of what people think is good vs. bad, what would be an example of a modern game in a similar genre with good audio?

    Thanks!

    Download Battlefield 3. Put the in-game audio setting to "War Tapes". Join an infantry only TDM mode server such as a 24-32 man TDM Noshahr Canals. Listen to the glorious sound stage that game has... The weapons sound amazing and the sound stage is not screwed up.
    -
    Otherwise, load up some youtube videos and listen closely.


  • CaterPCaterP Posts: 190Developer
    Download Battlefield 3. Put the in-game audio setting to "War Tapes". Join an infantry only TDM mode server such as a 24-32 man TDM Noshahr Canals. Listen to the glorious sound stage that game has... The weapons sound amazing and the sound stage is not screwed up.
    -
    Otherwise, load up some youtube videos and listen closely.

    Do you prefer the audio in BF3 over BF4?
  • SOPMODSOPMOD Posts: 230Player
    Battlefield 3 recorded real life swedish army exercises. Pretty cool.



    BF4 weapons sounds are more dampened compared to BF3 if i'm not mistaken. Wich is a bad thing.

    Honestly 10 year old AA2 is still my fav, no comparison.
  • omerta`easyomerta`easy Posts: 46Player
    edited June 2015
    It is really hard to pick a "modern" game with good sound. It seems like sound quality in games has gone down hill in the past 10 years. AA2 had better sound than pretty much any game released since. I thought this memory was just nostalgic, but I went back and played it a couple weeks ago and still thought it was excellent. Here's what I think made it so good.

    This is without the EAX effects which added a bunch of weird reverb.
    1. Sounds were very crisp.
    2. Each sound was very distinct. I could always identify which weapon was being fired. I could always identify what surface was being walked on.
    3. I very rarely got confused about what direction a sound was coming from.
    4. Every action that could impact me came with a sound cue unless the enemy took extra care to avoid them.
    5. The volume of most sound effects was well balanced. No sound seemed unnaturally loud in comparison to any other.
    6. The game sound is always predictable and consistent. This is by far the most important point for me and the biggest issue with the opt-ins IMO.

    Each opt-in has made noticeable improvement on point 2 which is good. I think the current opt-in is doing OK on point 1 as well. There has been improvement made on 5 as well with each opt-in, but a lot of effects still seem poorly balanced to me. For example, grenades bouncing across the map sound like they are right next to me, but only sometimes. Sometimes the bounce sound seems appropriate.

    The first 1:10 of that video SOPMOD posted made a very important point. For multiplayer games where players are hearing the same sounds over and over for thousands of hours it is more important to have crisp/clean/simple sound rather than aggressive/epic sounds.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1
    edited June 2015
    Haters gonna hate but i really liked the sound of AA3.
    ^


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  • Dct.F|LeventeDct.F|Levente Posts: 624Beta Tester
    I think the most important is consistency/reliability with 5.1/7.1/etc. systems. I don't know how a weapon actually sounds like, but I felt than if you fire a single shot, it cuts of the 'tail' way too fast. I'd love to see a realistic approach to sounds, and I'm a big fan of AA3... I think something like AA3 would be pretty neat, especially the distant sounds were great IMO.
    Theory and reality are not that different. In theory.
  • -SD-DELTON-ACI--SD-DELTON-ACI- Posts: 1,516Player
    Open beta.
    +1

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  • Duke_AudiDuke_Audi Posts: 348Beta Tester
    edited June 2015
    There are two issues that have barely been touched on.

    1/ Not all audio systems are created equal. Speakers versus headphones, onboard audio versus standalone high end sound cards and standard stereo versus multi- channel Dolby all contribute to the situation. Who uses what and how it impacts the game is as or more important than how the sound was created.

    2/ No two player’s hearing is exactly alike. As well, individuals’ subjectiveness will colour their interpretation of in game sounds.

    This past weekend we did extensive testing in different Opt-In #4 maps. I won’t get into all the different things we did or the problems I’ll just give you a quick view re 1 and 2 above.

    There is a noticeable improvement when using high quality Dolby enabled headphones over standard headsets. It’s possible that some who think the present guns make pew-pew sounds would benefit from upgrading their audio. Similarly, those who dislike what some describe as “Hollywood like” overdone sounds might accept the present sounds if they went into their audio settings and played with the EQ.

    To my dismay I learned my hearing is not as good as my team mates. In order for me to detect him at the same distance as he could of me required I turn up the volume until weapons fire was painful. Turned down to where weapons fire was bearable meant that he could tactical crouch up to within choking range of me. Dang old age!
  • {Armada}mango!{Armada}mango! Posts: 24Player
    In terms of effects, the m4 sounds horrible, other gun sounds OK.
    n
    In terms of sounds and environment, there is just too much going on. I really liked AA2 in that sense.
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited June 2015
    You need to put a z-axis in the sound for AAPG. I am completely shocked you guys do not have this yet...A z-axis will make it so you know if someone is on 2nd floor or same floor or bottom floor. You need very distinctive/accurate sound. So you should be able to tell the difference between every single sound like you should know exactly what gun someone is firing, what surface they are running on. The thing I would really like to see is metal surfaces that look different than each other should sound different but still sound like metal. For example on watch dog the metal steps should sound different than the metal rooftop on cold front. Grass should sound different than tall grass and also depending on what is on the grass...Also you should be able to hear grenade pins pulled from a decent distance away for grenades smokes and flash and also hear them being equipped these are all fairly loud noise in real life correct? Your biggest mistake right now with the new sound engine is the occlusion effect you integrated into the game. People with poor sound would be much much better off if this was not on the new sound engine also I guarantee you they would be way way more happy with the current state of sound. Without being able to test the opt-in 4 still I cannot give too much feedback on how the sound was currently since my internet was on the frizz all weekend and I only got to play 2 rounds the first day and 2 matches on Sunday... So if I had the opt-in right now I could go into a server with hyperlite and/or ekcomm and really figure out everything that might be missing/wrong with the sound engine. The bottom line is though you have the current open beta sound much better in terms of how good people can hear in general. I have seen the sound engine's real potential and I wish the rest of the players with not so great sound or decent sound cards but not exactly HIGHEND would be able to experience as well. I have a high end card in the xfi titanium hd and so does hyperlite with zxr...the Z is just mid level and used to be #3 out of all creative cards but now they got these USB DACS and other headphone amp stuff that is probably way better than the Z and up in the zxr and titanium hd range...
    1. http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x7-limited-edition
    2. http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x7
    3. http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-e5

    This one would be closer to the sound blaster z
    http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-e3

    and this one would be closer to this
    I am willing to help out with a much feedback as possible by having access to the latest build with 1 more person that has a high end card someone like hyperlite. I have no idea if he is willing but I am sure he is and can make time for it because he obviously wants the sound to succeed and reach is true potential just like me. Also I know he knows how to setup his sound.

    EDIT:

    Also you need to make use of the MaxConcurrentHearSounds default is 32...I am pretty sure most onboard setups now a days can handle 64-128...Also 128 is what most people with sounds cards would use pretty much any creative card out can make use of 128 MaxConcurrentHearSounds or maxchannels...In America's Army 2 if you had an XF-i of any kind and left this at the default of 32 you were losing out on a huge amount of sounds...Just from 32 - 64 made a good difference and when you put it to 128 is was a huge difference. Not sure how you integrate this into the sound engine or if it's already integrated, but this would definitely help a ton obviously you would need to add this into the in game Settings menu...With values of 32/64/128 available for use.

    http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-2118909.html
    http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/UE3:PlayerController_internal_variables_(UT3)#MaxConcurrentHearSounds
    http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1152390&page=55

    Also there should definitely be some sort of speaker option that makes a difference ingame...So if you set it to 5.1 speakers, headphones, 2.1 speakers, 5.1 headphones. In battlefield 3 setting your sound to wartapes took full advantage of your sound setup it was amazing bf4 not so much not sure what they did. But all these settings should sound better if your using it. So for example if I have headphones I should notice a pretty big different selecting headphones over any other setting.

    I am sure there is more stuff, but it's a little too late for me to continue with this. I gotta get myself some sleep.
  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    edited June 2015
    i do not like it when sounds get constantly muffled, or when sounds are competing with each other and drown each other out. i'm fine if that happens when i get flashed or if a massive explosion just went off and rang my bell for a moment, but otherwise i am not a fan of all the distortion.
    -
    aa2 sound is the absolute best comparison. play a youtube of anything aa2 and you know exactly who what where. but in aapg if you are hearing sounds muffled through walls across the map it is all muffled and reflected so you can't pinpoint that location. i shouldn't have to turn on paint (simulated munitions) to confirm where exactly a grenade exploded... the nade explosion should be heard clearly and its location should not be in question. the sound stage should be clear and precise and encompass the entire length of the map.
    -
    but as far as more modern, if you look at bf3 it does have amazing sound effects for bullets flying by near you, the weapons and explosions sound awesome and with pinpoint clarity. when people fire weapons outdoors in an all outdoor map you know precisely where and what sort of weapon it is (like aa2). you don't need simulated munitions turn on to help you pinpoint that stuff.
    -
    even if there is a wall between me and the source, i'd rather be able to pinpoint that source without the reflection tricking me into thinking the source is anywhere from say 45 degrees left or 45 degrees right of its true location... 90 degrees is not pinpoint.


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