Aim Punch vs Suppression

2

Comments

  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    edited May 2015
    -Ner0- wrote: »
    If SAW is so very much OP why doesn't every one want it? I often see SAW is free when i join a game, most time a SAW is free, I think.
    Edit: just joined LHR11 and both SAW's was free.

    That's a no brainer, because it's not near as OP as M4 with Aimpoint is, or M24.. and it's certainly not as OP as some make it sound. Just because one can go prone and fire 100 continuous bullets does not make it OP, it makes the recipient stupid for getting in the way of the bullets in the first place :lol:

    They can turn off the suppression effects, tone them down whatever.. it's just an effect at the end of the day, chances are if your under suppression anyway your not moving, I understand the want for change in regards to how the effect acts.. but still, if you move, peek, whatever .. minus the suppression, your likely going to be dead anyway, then we can look forward to going back to SAW is OP because it supposedly has no recoil. So on.. and So on.. until the gun is even more useless.

    From feedback so far I have learned a variety of people want..

    - No (lessened) suppression effects.
    - No Elcan. (As it's OP CQB apparently)
    - Less rounds in the drum. (because people think 100 is OP)
    - Extra violence (random) to the recoil.

    Tell me again.. why anyone would even want to pick the gun if any of them changes are made? If the gun don't get picked, we probably default to the trusty M4, we may get bored faster as were only using 1 weapon out of the arsenal.. as using anything else is considered suicide. Less depth, less fun.
    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    -Ner0- wrote: »
    If SAW is so very much OP why doesn't every one want it? I often see SAW is free when i join a game, most time a SAW is free, I think.
    Edit: just joined LHR11 and both SAW's was free.

    It's OP in the optin.
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    edited May 2015
    Not just in the Opt-in but shh, don't let anyone know.
  • Bam4DBam4D Posts: 976Player
    These few guys, get killed from a BUSH remove them, someone revived me I died again, remove it or cancel, can't get past a choke point add more, can see the 5 second revive save take it out, SAW suppress me, nerf it.

    Yes, they are vocal but not the majority, only in this forum.

    DEPTH over DEATHMATCH... please, thanks DEVz.

    _________________________

    ********Bam4D********

    BE ALL (THAT) YOU CAN BE!

    ________Army 1980_________


  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    Going by what BCPull posted a few days ago and I guess some may want quoted evidence backup so here it is..
    BCPull wrote: »
    So the sight time went from 0.35 to 0.4 seconds and the sprintEndBlendTime (sight time when you're coming out of a run) went from 0.45 to 0.5 seconds. Those look to be the only M249-specific changes in opt-in. All of the recoil properties are supposed to be the same from RFI-4 to Opt-in 3. If anything, it's meant to have received a slight nerf as a CQB weapon.

    On control: yeah, M249's been really easy to control for a long time, especially at high health.

    On limited scope access: that's one of the side benefits of Outpost's Armory gimmick (not that I'd want an ELCAN on Outpost anyway).

    Doba's correct in saying that the recoil on the M249 is simply more consistent than the M4. MinRecoilPercentage determines that bit; recoil has more variability by design on the M4.

    There have been a decent number of posts, and a fair number of people in-game, saying the weapons feel different; I've also heard players complain that they're dying more quickly. Is it all perception or is there some change here that's getting overlooked? Some of this is that I think the opt-in has mostly the more dedicated players (so that's the feeling of "everybody kills so quickly"), but the change in perception of weapon behavior's more interesting.

    If anything the SAW was made a little worse for the opt-in, so how it can be said its more OP in the opt-in is beyond me.
    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    It's already been OP in the current version for a long time. Playing the opt-in, recoil generally felt less (maybe because of the different sound) so that might be a reason why everyone started complaining now. Also the aim punch is a small buff to it.
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited May 2015
    Going by what BCPull posted a few days ago and I guess some may want quoted evidence backup so here it is..
    BCPull wrote: »
    So the sight time went from 0.35 to 0.4 seconds and the sprintEndBlendTime (sight time when you're coming out of a run) went from 0.45 to 0.5 seconds. Those look to be the only M249-specific changes in opt-in. All of the recoil properties are supposed to be the same from RFI-4 to Opt-in 3. If anything, it's meant to have received a slight nerf as a CQB weapon.

    On control: yeah, M249's been really easy to control for a long time, especially at high health.

    On limited scope access: that's one of the side benefits of Outpost's Armory gimmick (not that I'd want an ELCAN on Outpost anyway).

    Doba's correct in saying that the recoil on the M249 is simply more consistent than the M4. MinRecoilPercentage determines that bit; recoil has more variability by design on the M4.

    There have been a decent number of posts, and a fair number of people in-game, saying the weapons feel different; I've also heard players complain that they're dying more quickly. Is it all perception or is there some change here that's getting overlooked? Some of this is that I think the opt-in has mostly the more dedicated players (so that's the feeling of "everybody kills so quickly"), but the change in perception of weapon behavior's more interesting.

    If anything the SAW was made a little worse for the opt-in, so how it can be said its more OP in the opt-in is beyond me.

    Watch my videos especially this one at the very end I kill 2 people like nothing and BCPull was the third guy behind the other 2 and said I almost killed him to or practically killed him too. I got way more on my channel too. If you still think the saw is harder in the optin and is not op then I will be shocked. What I do in these videos I could never do with the saw in the current open beta build.

    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    So as a reference point I played like 2 matches with it on the current build. I tried to not use burst fire and control the recoil instead to showcase how easily you can control it (note that I have almost no experience with that weapon (258 kills)).
    Didn't cut out me flaming so you have something to laugh in case you disagree.

  • Bam4DBam4D Posts: 976Player
    edited May 2015
    LOL :D Training HUD and a SCOPE? these are our AA pros?

    _________________________

    ********Bam4D********

    BE ALL (THAT) YOU CAN BE!

    ________Army 1980_________


  • Dem@nDem@n Posts: 564Player
    edited May 2015
    20-20-25-30 ish is the number of bullets you used for each kill starting from the first Killa with full health none of your kills are laser shots even tho you counter the recoil as you can.Within this bullet count you can control spray with every weapon, try doing the same over 40-50 bullets and so on with different health values on a live server lets talk recoil again.I played with it alot to know, there are situations it's worse than any other weapon in game from recoil perspective.

    To sum it up,does the same damage as an m4,recoil is pretty close to it with full health,you need the same amount or more bullets to kill with it as an m4 only difference is the magnifying scope,thats why only 2 people can have it on each team and not everyone, think it's fair.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    edited May 2015
    My point is that you'd never shoot like I did with any other weapon because you don't have the ammunition to do so. On top of that you get that ridiculous suppression of the saw making it impossible for the enemy to fight back. I had a long range kill on 25% with barely aiming but my shadow play decided to split the screen.
    I don't the think laser shots are something special/op about the saw, you have that with the other weapons too. The recoil however shouldn't be that easy to control for 40 shots.

    But it's not even just the recoil making it op imo, it's a lot about the suppression.
  • feldeX^feldeX^ Posts: 59Player
    edited May 2015
    like i said one year ago, m249 is way to OP compared to the m4 your movent should be much slower even more because of the amount of bullets you carry
  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    i think the elcan already has a slower move speed when ADS, right? compared to non-zoom sights..
    -
    i don't think the m249 should have lower default move speed...
    -
    but i'm sure some wouldn't mind testing a lower max/sprint speed, especially seeing some of the "backpacks" they've been seen wearing lately.



  • feldeX^feldeX^ Posts: 59Player
    i think the elcan already has a slower move speed when ADS, right? compared to non-zoom sights..
    -
    i don't think the m249 should have lower default move speed...
    -
    but i'm sure some wouldn't mind testing a lower max/sprint speed, especially seeing some of the "backpacks" they've been seen wearing lately.

    Can you explain why?Are you fine with the Balancing?

  • .sauce.sauce Posts: 308Player
    I'm fine with the balancing as long as the suppression is trimmed back a bit. I've been using the last few days and I really don't see how anyone can say it's harder to use than the m4. You have to be a little more careful with bursts but then again you can just out-magazine everyone so those are a wash imo. Add the 4x optics and the suppression and I just think it's slightly too strong. If they JUST made the saw suppression similar to the m4, it would still be a fantastic weapon and I would still use it, but I think the complaints would calm quite a bit.
    Hello sir, excellent accuracy.

    LETS GO PENS
  • noOfy..noOfy.. Posts: 5Player
    There's recoil on the saw? I never realized. :-/
    Nah, but seriously, in the open beta, all you really had to worry about was the vertical aspect of the recoil. Now that I'm gone, I guess I can reveal a little secret. In synapse, you can make your vertical DPI higher than your horizontal. For the saw in open beta, yes, it was definitely OP. Anyone who has played against me and the saw is fully aware of this. As for suppression, I may as well have 50 flash bangs when I have the saw.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    noOfy.. wrote: »
    There's recoil on the saw? I never realized. :-/
    Nah, but seriously, in the open beta, all you really had to worry about was the vertical aspect of the recoil. Now that I'm gone, I guess I can reveal a little secret. In synapse, you can make your vertical DPI higher than your horizontal. For the saw in open beta, yes, it was definitely OP. Anyone who has played against me and the saw is fully aware of this. As for suppression, I may as well have 50 flash bangs when I have the saw.

    I don't get why people need to tweak every single bit just to have slight advantages. Since the dislikes are back, have mine for that.
  • Bam4DBam4D Posts: 976Player
    edited June 2015
    cK^KILL@ wrote: »
    I don't get why people need to tweak every single bit just to have slight advantages. Since the dislikes are back, have mine for that.

    Coming from this guy :) :D :# :| :D :p :* :D my tummy hurts, so funny.

    _________________________

    ********Bam4D********

    BE ALL (THAT) YOU CAN BE!

    ________Army 1980_________


  • .sauce.sauce Posts: 308Player
    I just feel like a focus on the recoil curve on all weapons would be a better way to balance things than what is going on now. You could apply stronger curves based on position, prone has a low curve standing has a high curve, etc. Burst fire would still be effective but if you are trying to unload 20 rounds at once controlling any weapon would be significantly more difficult. That's the kind of complexity I'd like to see in weapon handling. It would heavily reward the accurate shooter, still allow to "spray and pray" just make it very difficult to master, and overall give the development team an opportunity to differentiate weapons even more than they are now.
    Hello sir, excellent accuracy.

    LETS GO PENS
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    .sauce wrote: »
    I just feel like a focus on the recoil curve on all weapons would be a better way to balance things than what is going on now. You could apply stronger curves based on position, prone has a low curve standing has a high curve, etc. Burst fire would still be effective but if you are trying to unload 20 rounds at once controlling any weapon would be significantly more difficult. That's the kind of complexity I'd like to see in weapon handling. It would heavily reward the accurate shooter, still allow to "spray and pray" just make it very difficult to master, and overall give the development team an opportunity to differentiate weapons even more than they are now.
    sauce for president

    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



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