Mapping Contest - Please Please Please?

So I'd really love a mapping contest (I've been asking for this for months!), so here's my thought. If the Dev team doesn't want to run it, how about I run it as long as I get the assurance from the Dev team that they'll include the winning maps in the game? You can tell me what the max amount of winners you're willing to accept. I will even try to find 3-5 community judges who will be unable to participate in the contest (meaning I cannot be a judge, for example) and cannot have any clan affiliation with any of the participants. They will then pass on who they choose to be the winners to the devs and then if the dev team is in agreement they can be included in the game. How does that sound?
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Comments

  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 630Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Any chance that we can kick off this contest soon? Doesn't take much to just get the contest going since it's all on the mappers to do the work anyway.

    Just do it something like this:

    10/15 - Kick off contest
    11/5 - Deadline for initial submissions
    11/6 to 11/21 - Official servers in each region will play the submitted maps. Feedback will be given on the forums by Devs & players. During this time players cannot publish any updates to their map.
    11/30 - Deadline #2 for updates with any changes
    12/3 to 12/10- Updated maps are again put onto the official servers. During this time players cannot publish any updates to their map.
    12/11 - Finalists are chosen, mappers are given a chance to make any final updates
    12/20 - Winners are chosen


    Also, some thoughts on the process.
    1) Developers should give feedback on what they liked/dislike about each map and what would make them more likely to be chosen as the winner during both the first and second play period.

    2) Maps should be chosen first and foremost based on the layout. A map that's more complete should be appreciated, but honestly there are few mappers out there who are going to be able to create artwork and such to the level of the developers. Map layout and gameplay is the most important aspect and is much more difficult to hit the money on vs. theme and art design.

    3) Each mapper should be limited to two submissions unless there's so little interest that you get like 6 submissions in total or something. An exception can be to mappers who create separate versions for different objective types for the the same map, for example one version is C4 and another VIP.

    4) Prior America's Army maps should be excluded even if they are completely re-skinned. Those should be remade separately.

    5) Objectives Types. Objectives should be designed to prevent teams in a competitive environment from just stacking one spot. In pubs obviously people will roam wherever they will and objective placement isn't as important. As such, allowable objective types should be:
    a) C4 -> Requires two bomb sites. Players should be able to run from site to site within a reasonable period of time.
    b) Take and hold -> There should be 3 objectives (like MOUT McKenna) in that taking two allows for victory. Urban assault style (taking 2 of 2) can allow for stalemates too easily.
    c) Objective activation -> Either pipeline style or insurgent camp style, meaning take 1 of 2 objectives to win or take a series of objectives or one overriding objective to win. Taking 2 of 2 or 3 of 3 allows defenders to stack a single objective. Again, here the objectives shouldn't be too far apart. Pipeline style should have at least one objective somewhat close to the override objective so that defenders aren't spread too thin.
    d) If you really want VIP and capture the flag type game modes, feel free, I just don't think they create the best/most balanced gameplay.

    Frankly that all sounds great. Do you want to run it and get it going now?

    They offered it to you already.
    AAPG is good!
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,102Player
    I know, but then people said that it would be better if the Devs officially ran it. So now I figure, screw it.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,102Player
    edited February 6
    To add, I'll also put in a stipulation that the map should be finished and that the Dev team will only test them for major bugs and no additional work will be done. So as not to make too much work for the dev team.

    Also, if this is never going to happen, can you just shut me down? I'd rather that than silence.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • LWOF_BrOkenArrowLWOF_BrOkenArrow Posts: 318Player
    Tbh, I think you just need to get out there and do it. I'm sure if the first one is successful then it'll gain in popularity , which will lead to more participants and community support. And that in turn will lead to more involvement from the Developers.

    It's much better than waiting around for months (going on 5 now since this https://forum.americasarmy.com/discussion/7711/new-mapping-contest/p2) for the Devs to do the work for you.
    Teamwork is essential, it gives the enemy other people to shoot at



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  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,102Player
    Tbh, I think you just need to get out there and do it. I'm sure if the first one is successful then it'll gain in popularity , which will lead to more participants and community support. And that in turn will lead to more involvement from the Developers.

    It's much better than waiting around for months (going on 5 now since this https://forum.americasarmy.com/discussion/7711/new-mapping-contest/p2) for the Devs to do the work for you.

    The problem is that with no assurance that the maps will be made official then it's pointless. We have tons of maps out there today already.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,589Beta Tester
    I don't think there's anything stopping the community from having it's own mapping contest. The REAL problem, IMO, is having them hosted on a server that doesn't have 50+ maps to download. I've TRIED to convince server owners to run less maps in the file, but they just won't do it. It really reduces the amount of people willing to play on UMM servers.

    :(
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  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,102Player
    edited February 7
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    I don't think there's anything stopping the community from having it's own mapping contest. The REAL problem, IMO, is having them hosted on a server that doesn't have 50+ maps to download. I've TRIED to convince server owners to run less maps in the file, but they just won't do it. It really reduces the amount of people willing to play on UMM servers.

    :(

    That's also due to the way the game sets up UMMs. Instead of allowing players to just download maps as they're played, we're forced to download every map on the server. So a UMM server can regularly play 15 UMMs, but keep 50 on their server in case people want to play them, but people have to download all 50 in order to join. That's a nightmare. I think my UMM folder is something like 9GBs. Add in that you can't preload shader cache before opening the game and the fact that updates to UMMs cause a head ache for server operators. This all results in UMMs becoming a niche thing. Instead we have a game where Inner Hospital is played 75% of the time on non-UMM servers.

    I can see from my own experience how much of a nightmare UMM updates are. UMM creator updates map... if they publish the server doesn't automatically update so if the server played the map before restarting everyone gets kicked for a mismatch. Add in the fact that sometimes when you restart, the server still doesn't push the correct version of the map and you still get mismatches even when everything is done properly. Sometimes a server owner has to go into the file manager and manually upload the map to make it work. I could imagine if there were tons of UMM servers where a UMM creator would never know when they could update their map because it would crash everyone. A complete mess. It's hard enough with one sever doing it.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,589Beta Tester
    Well, considering this may be our last, we better enjoy what we have. You've basically just outlined why the Devs shouldn't do User Made Content. :(
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  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,102Player
    edited February 7
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Well, considering this may be our last, we better enjoy what we have. You've basically just outlined why the Devs shouldn't do User Made Content. :(

    Unfortunately, many other games do it better. I'm not sure if it's an Unreal Engine thing or the game itself.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,589Beta Tester
    There's a concern that UE4 will be WAY too complex to have community content. I know SQUAD is doing it, kind of, but my poking around in that community has not revealed a lot about "HOW."

    Also, it's too bad people don't realize just how unlikely it is that AAPG exists AT ALL! I mean.....a government-funded video game???

    There's LOTS the Studio 'could' do with AAPG if given the backing they need. Remember, AAPG is what happens when a five year old goes into a candy store, holds his fist out with a few dimes and a penny and says, "What can I get with this many?" That just ain't the Studio's fault. I'm quite confident there's some talent under that roof.

    :)
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  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,102Player
    edited February 9
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    There's a concern that UE4 will be WAY too complex to have community content. I know SQUAD is doing it, kind of, but my poking around in that community has not revealed a lot about "HOW."

    Also, it's too bad people don't realize just how unlikely it is that AAPG exists AT ALL! I mean.....a government-funded video game???

    There's LOTS the Studio 'could' do with AAPG if given the backing they need. Remember, AAPG is what happens when a five year old goes into a candy store, holds his fist out with a few dimes and a penny and says, "What can I get with this many?" That just ain't the Studio's fault. I'm quite confident there's some talent under that roof.

    :)

    Unfortunately, none of us know how much funding this game receives or how it compares to what they were getting for the original AA. From what I gather from Hollywood's posts they're getting an influx of funding under the current administration. It would seem that Republican administrations are better for our good ol'America's Army. The idea was novel at the time and let's be honest, the only reason why there was an AA3, AAPG, or soon to be AAV is because of the success of the original.

    I haven't messed around with UE4, however, I'm sure if the developers invested some time into creating a map editor like in AAPG that people could figure it out. We're not asking for full blown modding tools. In any case, I don't expect a map editor to be available when AAV is released. That's unrealistic for any of us to expect. Something like that is a year 2+ type of addition. Don't forget that we didn't get it in AAPG right away either.

    However, my main desire for a mapping contest is to showcase the maps that the community has made, see if people like them, and maybe, just maybe if there are some maps that really catch on with the community, get them included in the next game. Certainly a far fetched dream to say the least. Anyway, at the very least it would be nice to see some Devs stop by and play in the 101st server from time to time and see the hard work that the community has put into these maps.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,589Beta Tester
    I don't agree with the how and why of funding. From what I can see externally, the new Army attitude to a digital-savvy force and the nod to eSports suggests the place for an Army videogame is more at the forefront than it's been for a while, maybe EVER.

    There's more space for digital skills in the MOS matrix than ever before.
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  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,102Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    I don't agree with the how and why of funding. From what I can see externally, the new Army attitude to a digital-savvy force and the nod to eSports suggests the place for an Army videogame is more at the forefront than it's been for a while, maybe EVER.

    There's more space for digital skills in the MOS matrix than ever before.

    IDK, I think Hollywood even made a post that the current administration is providing more funding. I'd have to dig it up, but I'm quite certain he's said so.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,589Beta Tester
    Funding doesn't come from Admin. AGS is, or was, under the Department of the Army, at the Pentagon, if I recall correctly.
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  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,102Player
    edited February 10
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Funding doesn't come from Admin. AGS is, or was, under the Department of the Army, at the Pentagon, if I recall correctly.

    Yes, but when the military gets extra funding (which this admin has done) it means more money to put into marketing efforts such as AGS. There's a reason why in the other thread Hollywood mentions the need to get the game done within two years due to a potential changing political climate (i.e., the 2020 election).
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Developer
    Yes, but when the military gets extra funding (which this admin has done) it means more money to put into marketing efforts such as AGS. There's a reason why in the other thread Hollywood mentions the need to get the game done within two years due to a potential changing political climate (i.e., the 2020 election).

    It's not really a funding problem, at least not the map stuff. I mean it is because we don't have enough artists to go around to all the different projects we have going on and hiring more would help a lot. BUT the problem for maps is nobody will free up an artist to work on maps. Artists are booked solid for like forever, such that even Reaction may never get finished the way we want it. I just really can't promise you any community map, or even any Studio map, may ever get added at this point. I have pushed and pushed but we can't get any art support.
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,102Player
    edited February 15
    Yes, but when the military gets extra funding (which this admin has done) it means more money to put into marketing efforts such as AGS. There's a reason why in the other thread Hollywood mentions the need to get the game done within two years due to a potential changing political climate (i.e., the 2020 election).

    It's not really a funding problem, at least not the map stuff. I mean it is because we don't have enough artists to go around to all the different projects we have going on and hiring more would help a lot. BUT the problem for maps is nobody will free up an artist to work on maps. Artists are booked solid for like forever, such that even Reaction may never get finished the way we want it. I just really can't promise you any community map, or even any Studio map, may ever get added at this point. I have pushed and pushed but we can't get any art support.

    I think we went off on a tangent and were discussing funding for the game in general and how the increased military spending in the current administration has helped AA5 get more funding that would have otherwise not existed.

    On a side note, you guys need more artsy fartsy guys pronto!
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Developer
    On a side note, you guys need more artsy fartsy guys pronto!

    I heard someone say yesterday we have 20 open job reqs right now :p
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,102Player
    On a side note, you guys need more artsy fartsy guys pronto!

    I heard someone say yesterday we have 20 open job reqs right now :p

    Where's this guy? I heard he's training to become a graphic artist.
    7a7d.jpg
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,589Beta Tester
    Hey, Hollywood.... due to some business I had near Huntsville, I happen to know of an artist looking for work (son of someone I dealt with). Have anywhere to point him for the application process? :)
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