New Mapping Contest?

1246

Comments

  • SeVn.MaxSeVn.Max Posts: 230Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Bump. Wondering if we can get any kind of word on if this will actually kick off any time soon. I see on the AA facebook page that people are asking for new maps. What do you know?

    They are slated for "soon" and believe me I feel the pressure more than you

    but will they be included with the contest or are you already working on some project?
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Developer
    SeVn.Max wrote: »
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Bump. Wondering if we can get any kind of word on if this will actually kick off any time soon. I see on the AA facebook page that people are asking for new maps. What do you know?

    They are slated for "soon" and believe me I feel the pressure more than you

    but will they be included with the contest or are you already working on some project?

    They would be separate from any contest and would be a straight content drop.
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,104Player
    edited October 2018
    I was more curious about the mapping contest than new official maps :smile:
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • SeVn.MaxSeVn.Max Posts: 230Player
    excellent choice DEv! HOAH
  • SeVn.MaxSeVn.Max Posts: 230Player
    I hope you can not import mesh, you create maps with the content browser materials, otherwise who has the possibility to enter already prepaid facilities for payment, has already won. To create new meshes you can use constructions with the editor's brush, this is my thought.
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,104Player
    SeVn.Max wrote: »
    I hope you can not import mesh, you create maps with the content browser materials, otherwise who has the possibility to enter already prepaid facilities for payment, has already won. To create new meshes you can use constructions with the editor's brush, this is my thought.

    True enough, although just because you import fancy meshes doesn't mean that your map will play well. It's yet another reason why the winners should be chosen based on layout/playability rather than looks.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • SeVn.MaxSeVn.Max Posts: 230Player
    if a person spends his money to make his own maps for the workshop is a good thing, but the contest should have strict rules on this topic. If I buy $ 200 with architectures already well set up, a grass mantle with flowers, a good gameplay, models the ground and the game is done.

  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,104Player
    edited October 2018
    Here, you can edit the text, but I've taken the liberty to make up the wording for the post based on an old contest:

    We are pleased to announce our fourth user made map contest! Contestants will have approximately three months to create a map. At the end of the contest period we will be selecting winners whose maps will be featured in the game.

    What is the deadline for entry?
    Six weeks from today (obviously use a real date) @ 9am CST

    How do I submit my map to the competition?
    Publish your map to Steam and then post the url to your map’s workshop page here: MAP SUBMISSION THREAD

    What happens after the XXXX deadline…
    All maps that have been submitted (MAP SUMISSION THREAD) by 9am CST on XXXX will be added to a collection. That map collection will then be run on a number of official servers for two weeks. During this time, players can play your maps and provide feedback either through your map’s Workshop page or though provided feedback areas on the forums. Mappers can continue to work on their map during this time, however, they should not publish any updates until the play period has ended.
    Once the two week period has ended, mappers will have a few days to publish any updates to their map. After any updates have been published, there will be another public testing period.
    The finalists will be chosen after the completion of the second play period. We will give the finalists one last chance to update their maps before choosing the winners.

    What do I get if I win?
    We will take your map and incorporate it in to the full game! If the map becomes popular enough we'll even consider including it in the next America's Army game!
    We will polish up your map including: addressing collision and anchoring issues, fixing bugs, providing proper minimaps, updating ambient audio (if necessary) and updating art assets for key areas of the map (if necessary). Once we have completed this polish pass we will make your map official by adding it in to the game and placing it in the default map rotation.

    How many winners will there be?
    For this contest we are not limiting the amount of winners. Maps that fit the winning criteria will be chosen. This could be only a single map or even ten maps.

    How will the winners be determined?
    Winners will be selected by the development team. We will be judging maps on the following criteria.

    Layout: Layout is the most important aspect of any map submission. All maps should play well in a 12v12 environment as well as in a smaller 5v5 competitive match. There should be a good flow to the map that allows players to consistently move towards completing objective(s). Ultimately, good maps channel players into higher action areas that need to be won in order to get to the objective. They have good flank routes and will not allow a player to flank an enemy without earning it. Maps that foster team play are key!

    Objectives: Objective types should create exciting gameplay. We want to avoid stalemates or players sitting around waiting for time to expire. Objective types that should be given preference:
    C4 – Objectives should be close enough so that when the bomb is planted, a player defending the other site can get to the objective within 15-20 seconds by taking the shortest path (default bomb timer is 40 seconds). Players need to be given a chance to defuse!
    Objective Activation -> Attack vs. Attack – There should be an odd number of objectives. Time limits should be on the shorter side for these types of maps so that players are forced to take more objectives than their opponents before time runs out.
    Objective Activation -> Attack vs. Defend – These maps can have longer round times, but they need to keep defenders on their toes. Objectives can be 1) “Insurgent Camp” style where there are two objectives and taking one of the two objectives wins 2) “Pipeline” style where taking a string of objectives wins or taking an override objective wins. We would like to avoid maps where defenders can just lock down a single objective while letting the attackers take any others without resistance.
    Other objective types such as VIP, capture the flag, etc. can be included as a secondary game mode, but should not be the primary submission.

    Theme: No particular theme will be enforced. Be creative, have fun!

    Completeness: The most important aspect of the maps are whether they have a great layout that we can mold into a masterpiece. If your map doesn’t look perfect, no big deal! We have great artists who will make your map look great. However, you should at the very least put enough in your map that it can portray some sort of theme. Don't just submit a layout with no textures. If you can make your map look pretty that certainly makes our lives a bit easier, but it is not the most important criteria.

    Are there any other restrictions I should know about?
    Maps should fit both BDX & FLO gameplay modes. For the contest only FLO needs to be submitted.

    Only assets (models, textures, etc) that are contained within the mission editor and original content are allowed. 3rd party assets whether free or paid are not allowed.

    Mappers will be limited to three submissions. Variations of a map based on different objective types will be considered as a single submission (i.e., not multiple).--> You can make this two if you think three is excessive.

    How do I get the map creation tools?
    The America’s Army: Proving Grounds Editor can be downloaded as DLC for the game through Steam.
    An overview of the editor can be found here: http://www.americasarmy.com/aapg/mission-editor

    Eligibility
    Anyone who is not a developer at Army Game Studio is eligible for this contest.

    Originality
    Recreations of existing maps from other games will not be accepted. Recreations of existing America’s Army maps (pre-AAPG) are not allowed. All maps should be original creations.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,594Beta Tester
    I note very few people want to discuss good gameplay maps, and when I tried to ask questions of comp guys I got "you think too much" so....? I have a thread on gameplay and design, and no one wants to hammer out ideas and build a 'best practices' guideline.

    If THIS contest is going to focus on gameplay, what are the criterion? What's the checklist or guide for construction that it'll be judged by?

    I don't think that custom assets should be allowed in that kind of contest since there's nothing stopping stock assets from being arranged for good gameplay. It would level the playing field.

    So.....what defines "good gameplay" and what features would be a no-go for design? (I suppose you could go here and actually discuss this... https://forum.americasarmy.com/discussion/7409/gameplay-and-map-design-discussion )
    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,104Player
    edited October 2018
    I threw out some ideas in that thread somewhat recently. Honestly, it's not easy to create a great map.

    There's a reason why CS has been around for 18-19 years and the vast majority of the most well known maps came out during its beta or earlier retail days. The two most popular newer maps I believe are Mirage, which was created specifically for competitive play, and Cache.

    Personally, I've never played high level competition in any game, but you can tell a map that's designed well vs. one that's not from playing it for a bit. Maps that typically favor one side are big no-nos. You want the map to have a good balance.

    Pub games are fairly difficult to figure that out with because of the fact that in pubs people just run around wherever they want with little regard to strategy. However, you can still get some sort of gauge from pub play since seeing one team win over and over will give you an indication. You can also tell by map flow.
    How often does the map end with the objectives taken? Is it too easy to take the objectives? Too difficult? Can a smart team just lock down the objective and make it almost impossible to win? If the objectives are never a threat then you need to change the map to make them more important.
    Can assault take the objectives too easily? Is defense spread too thin? Are the objectives they need to defend too far apart that it makes even having a good defensive strategy impossible?
    Can I be flanked easily from anywhere? Do I need to always have a 360 degree awareness in order to stay alive even if my team hasn't lost any ground? Are there even any paths in this map or is it just an open free for all where people wander around everywhere? Maps that are too open don't allow for much set strategy, they also hinder team play.
    Are there routes that allow for easy rotation? Do players need to jump through hoops or run around the entire map to regroup with each other?
    Can you see too far? Can a single sniper lock down large chunks of the map? Can you easily spam fire at the beginning of the round in order to hurt enemies?

    and if you want to look at AAPG, Inner Hospital is one of the few maps that checks most of those boxes, but unfortunately it's a single objective capture the flag map. I'm not even saying that maps need to look like CS maps, however, let's be realistic... this is a round based shooter. CS is the most successful round based shooter. Our maps can look different, have more verticality, be bigger, incorporate more objective styles, etc. However, one shouldn't be afraid to see what CS maps do right and try to at least emulate the design style a bit. You can make a huge outdoor map that uses a similar gameplay flow to a CS map and it doesn't necessarily need to be a high paced, high action map.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • LWOF_BrOkenArrowLWOF_BrOkenArrow Posts: 318Player
    edited October 2018
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    I note very few people want to discuss good gameplay maps, and when I tried to ask questions of comp guys I got "you think too much" so....? I have a thread on gameplay and design, and no one wants to hammer out ideas and build a 'best practices' guideline.

    If THIS contest is going to focus on gameplay, what are the criterion? What's the checklist or guide for construction that it'll be judged by?

    I don't think that custom assets should be allowed in that kind of contest since there's nothing stopping stock assets from being arranged for good gameplay. It would level the playing field.

    So.....what defines "good gameplay" and what features would be a no-go for design? (I suppose you could go here and actually discuss this... https://forum.americasarmy.com/discussion/7409/gameplay-and-map-design-discussion )

    I guess the first thing you need to consider when determining what "good gameplay" is, would be to look at how the game is meant to be played in the first place.

    Note that this is different from how you or I or any other individual may play the game -- cause it's quite likely we may have different play styles and different ways of thinking... which in the grand-scheme of things equal entirely different styles of gameplay.

    The only people who can truly say how the game is meant to be played, are the Devs themselves. Thus, the developers would be the one to define the, intended, "gameplay" in AA:PG.

    All we know, is that the game is a Tactical Shooter, therefore it'd make sense for a successful map (which provides good gameplay) to incorporate a variety of tactics/strategies for players to use/learn -- as many have already mentioned. Which could range from having multiple routes/ways of completing an objective, flank routes to counter campers, and vulnerable, yet powerful vantage points for teams to compete over.

    Keep in mind that there is no written definition for a good map. All one can do is look at the similarities between successful maps, and get a general conception of the qualities and traits that good maps tend to have
    Teamwork is essential, it gives the enemy other people to shoot at



    P0asKE2.jpg
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,104Player
    edited October 2018
    I'd say that while the developers may ultimately design a gameplay style that they wish the game to
    have, map design and flow are huge factors in how it is actually executed. One map can slow down gameplay where rounds take 5+ minutes to complete on average, another map can be high paced and have rounds end quickly. All with the same game. I don't mind maps that take longer to complete as long as that longer to complete doesn't entail 90% of the server dying off in the first 2-3 minutes and then everyone else waiting around for the last 10% for another 5 minutes. Unfortunately, historically many maps with longer time limits tend to work that way.

    With a round based game you need to in general expect somewhat shorter rounds and a faster pace, even if the game is ultimately more tactical in nature. The game can only move so slowly without it turning into a snoozefest of dead guys waiting around. People have this nostalgia for the old America's Army maps, but the facts are that the most popular maps were mainly CQB oriented maps (with the exception of Bridge) where as long as you didn't get some guy camping around for 5 minutes at the end of a round, the rounds would end within 3-4 minutes. That game in general felt slower than this one and yet that's how it worked.

    Create a set of objectives and figure out how long it's going to take a well organized team to accomplish the objective. Make sure your map isn't going to be team deathmatch 90% of the time. From there you can speed up or slow things down based on how your routes play out, if you have doors in key areas, things of that nature.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,594Beta Tester
    The core issues (of which I'm accused of "thinking too much") would always start from - what specific factors makes playing a game - any game - interesting, challenging or fun? Then, add the specifics of FPS games with objectives and team play, etc.

    There's probably a ton of "Game Theory" (yes, that's a branch of science) behind the actual answers to this.
    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • SeVn.MaxSeVn.Max Posts: 230Player
    I did not understand: we do a contest, so we start from scratch and away, or do we have to present 2 or 3 maps from our workshop? it's a bit of a contradiction, in my opinion! then it would be better to do this contest from a new creation each, and another contest "workshop" where the developers decree the winner from the portfolio of each creator.
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,104Player
    edited October 2018
    SeVn.Max wrote: »
    I did not understand: we do a contest, so we start from scratch and away, or do we have to present 2 or 3 maps from our workshop? it's a bit of a contradiction, in my opinion! then it would be better to do this contest from a new creation each, and another contest "workshop" where the developers decree the winner from the portfolio of each creator.

    EIther one works in my opinion. If you want to create something new, go for it. If you have a few maps that you've created over the years that are really good, then submit them. If you have a map that you think is good enough to be in the game, then why not submit it? Why penalize someone just because they made the map a year ago or a few months ago rather than during the contest? The reason for the limit is so that guys who have been creating maps for 3 years don't just submit 10 maps.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • SeVn.MaxSeVn.Max Posts: 230Player
    your speech is beautiful and really fair, only that there are maps like one of mine that has imported objects, and it would go against the rules mentioned above! it was not a polemic, let alone, after years of waiting, cheers!
    if the contest is invited to create a new topic for pleasure !!
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,104Player
    edited October 2018
    SeVn.Max wrote: »
    your speech is beautiful and really fair, only that there are maps like one of mine that has imported objects, and it would go against the rules mentioned above! it was not a polemic, let alone, after years of waiting, cheers!
    if the contest is invited to create a new topic for pleasure !!

    I guess it all depends on how much imported objects really make a difference in a map. Maybe only 3rd party items are not allowed?

    I updated the post to say that only assets from the editor + original content will be allowed.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • ={101st}=Muzza455={101st}=Muzza455 Posts: 1,013Player
    with only a few select military vehicles to choose from, importing seems to be the only way to get what you want in a map . ( not knocking the content guys) but variety can change a look dramatically.
  • SeVn.MaxSeVn.Max Posts: 230Player
    as far as I understand, you can submit up to 3 maps, including a new one with original contents and 2 of your own workshop, then also with imported objects! Correct me if I'm wrong
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,104Player
    edited October 2018
    SeVn.Max wrote: »
    as far as I understand, you can submit up to 3 maps, including a new one with original contents and 2 of your own workshop, then also with imported objects! Correct me if I'm wrong

    Just note, this is not official until Hollywood posts it in the news section and anywhere else that America's Army news is posted. So don't think I've started the contest :).

    Ultimately, the Devs can decide, but I just made it three maps. Doesn't matter if they're new, old, or whatever. Just have to be original.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
Sign In or Register to comment.