New Mapping Contest?

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  • ={101st}=Muzza455={101st}=Muzza455 Posts: 1,054Player
    edited October 2018
    doogle! wrote: »
    Do mappers have the ability to limit kits yet?

    Mappers can add individual weapons with scope or no scope per player as custom spawn points also how many nades or flash / smoke
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,121Player
    doogle! wrote: »
    Do mappers have the ability to limit kits yet?

    Mappers can add individual weapons with scope or no scope per player as custom spawn points also how many nades or flash / smoke

    Unfortunately it's random which spot you end up getting. Not a great solution to the issue.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Developer
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Any chance that we can kick off this contest soon? Doesn't take much to just get the contest going since it's all on the mappers to do the work anyway.

    Just do it something like this:

    10/15 - Kick off contest
    11/5 - Deadline for initial submissions
    11/6 to 11/21 - Official servers in each region will play the submitted maps. Feedback will be given on the forums by Devs & players. During this time players cannot publish any updates to their map.
    11/30 - Deadline #2 for updates with any changes
    12/3 to 12/10- Updated maps are again put onto the official servers. During this time players cannot publish any updates to their map.
    12/11 - Finalists are chosen, mappers are given a chance to make any final updates
    12/20 - Winners are chosen


    Also, some thoughts on the process.
    1) Developers should give feedback on what they liked/dislike about each map and what would make them more likely to be chosen as the winner during both the first and second play period.

    2) Maps should be chosen first and foremost based on the layout. A map that's more complete should be appreciated, but honestly there are few mappers out there who are going to be able to create artwork and such to the level of the developers. Map layout and gameplay is the most important aspect and is much more difficult to hit the money on vs. theme and art design.

    3) Each mapper should be limited to two submissions unless there's so little interest that you get like 6 submissions in total or something. An exception can be to mappers who create separate versions for different objective types for the the same map, for example one version is C4 and another VIP.

    4) Prior America's Army maps should be excluded even if they are completely re-skinned. Those should be remade separately.

    5) Objectives Types. Objectives should be designed to prevent teams in a competitive environment from just stacking one spot. In pubs obviously people will roam wherever they will and objective placement isn't as important. As such, allowable objective types should be:
    a) C4 -> Requires two bomb sites. Players should be able to run from site to site within a reasonable period of time.
    b) Take and hold -> There should be 3 objectives (like MOUT McKenna) in that taking two allows for victory. Urban assault style (taking 2 of 2) can allow for stalemates too easily.
    c) Objective activation -> Either pipeline style or insurgent camp style, meaning take 1 of 2 objectives to win or take a series of objectives or one overriding objective to win. Taking 2 of 2 or 3 of 3 allows defenders to stack a single objective. Again, here the objectives shouldn't be too far apart. Pipeline style should have at least one objective somewhat close to the override objective so that defenders aren't spread too thin.
    d) If you really want VIP and capture the flag type game modes, feel free, I just don't think they create the best/most balanced gameplay.

    Frankly that all sounds great. Do you want to run it and get it going now?
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,121Player
    Frankly that all sounds great. Do you want to run it and get it going now?

    LOL, I don't think it would work so well coming from a community member rather than a Dev.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Developer
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Frankly that all sounds great. Do you want to run it and get it going now?

    LOL, I don't think it would work so well coming from a community member rather than a Dev.

    Regular guys are running PS4 tournaments and overflowing with teams lol.
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,121Player
    edited October 2018
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Frankly that all sounds great. Do you want to run it and get it going now?

    LOL, I don't think it would work so well coming from a community member rather than a Dev.

    Regular guys are running PS4 tournaments and overflowing with teams lol.

    I'll do it if you really want, but the Dev team will still need to give feedback and be judges!

    I'd also need the ability to post in the News section. You'll also probably want to post this one Facebook. I don't mind posting on Reddit, but I deleted my Facebook account a long while ago, so I have no ability to post there (plus I think it would absolutely need to be from the Army Game account).
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    No offense, but this needs to come from the Devs. We already have a community map contest......it's called "Workshop" :)

    Now...technically, Whippy could run it, sure. But the criterion needs to be formulated from above to avoid constant arguing and keep everyone on track.

    Also, I don't agree on your initial proposition for timeline, Whiplash. A ~3 week 'time to initial submission' is too short and only benefits people who have a map already in development. It might take two weeks to get the word out! A mapper who's decided to jump in won't have time to whitebox a concept map from scratch with no time to get back up to speed.
    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,121Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    No offense, but this needs to come from the Devs. We already have a community map contest......it's called "Workshop" :)

    Now...technically, Whippy could run it, sure. But the criterion needs to be formulated from above to avoid constant arguing and keep everyone on track.

    Also, I don't agree on your initial proposition for timeline, Whiplash. A ~3 week 'time to initial submission' is too short and only benefits people who have a map already in development. It might take two weeks to get the word out! A mapper who's decided to jump in won't have time to whitebox a concept map from scratch with no time to get back up to speed.

    Fair enough, I just was trying to fit the thing into a window so it would be complete by the end of the year. I guess you could try to extended it by another few weeks or a month.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Developer
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    No offense, but this needs to come from the Devs. We already have a community map contest......it's called "Workshop" :)

    Now...technically, Whippy could run it, sure. But the criterion needs to be formulated from above to avoid constant arguing and keep everyone on track.

    Also, I don't agree on your initial proposition for timeline, Whiplash. A ~3 week 'time to initial submission' is too short and only benefits people who have a map already in development. It might take two weeks to get the word out! A mapper who's decided to jump in won't have time to whitebox a concept map from scratch with no time to get back up to speed.

    That's fine, I was offering a solution to get it going faster.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    Having been around here a LONNNNGGG while, I'm merely anticipating some issues. I want it to be a success, just like you! :)

    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,121Player
    edited October 2018
    OK, revised:
    10/22 - Kick off contest
    11/30 - Deadline for initial submissions

    12/1 to 12/14 - Official servers in each region will play the submitted maps. Feedback will be given on the forums by Devs & players - Dev feedback should occur within the first week of the test period. During this time players cannot publish any updates to their map.
    12/15 - 12/19 - Mappers should publish updates to their maps during this time.

    12/20 to 1/1- Updated maps are again put onto the official servers. During this time players cannot publish any updates to their map.
    1/2 to to 1/6 - Mappers should publish updates to their maps during this time.

    1/7 - Finalists are chosen, mappers are given a chance to make any final updates
    1/8 to 1/17 - Finalists are played on official server.
    11/18 - 11/21 - Mappers should publish updates to their maps during this time.

    1/22 - Winners are chosen

    Anything longer than three months is just dragging it out.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • LWOF_BrOkenArrowLWOF_BrOkenArrow Posts: 320Player
    edited October 2018
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    OK, revised:
    10/22 - Kick off contest
    11/30 - Deadline for initial submissions

    12/1 to 12/14 - Official servers in each region will play the submitted maps. Feedback will be given on the forums by Devs & players - Dev feedback should occur within the first week of the test period. During this time players cannot publish any updates to their map.
    12/15 - 12/19 - Mappers should publish updates to their maps during this time.

    12/20 to 1/1- Updated maps are again put onto the official servers. During this time players cannot publish any updates to their map.
    1/2 to to 1/6 - Mappers should publish updates to their maps during this time.

    1/7 - Finalists are chosen, mappers are given a chance to make any final updates
    1/8 to 1/17 - Finalists are played on official server.
    11/18 - 11/21 - Mappers should publish updates to their maps during this time.

    1/22 - Winners are chosen

    Anything longer than three months is just dragging it out.

    Hmm... questions/suggestions:

    1. You're giving players a month to submit/create a map, which will then be played on the official servers. Seeing as how there's already a low player base on PC, and how few people play on these official servers -- My question is how many people you're expecting to even partake in this competition. Can you truly put 100 custom maps onto an official server?
    2. With that said, what are the qualifications? What are the criteria for a map to make to the finals or semi-finals? Who decides? Why?

    Personally, I think there should be a theme. Like "Halloween" or "Easter" or "Christmas". This is the first criteria. Then there's originality and creativity. Plagiarism results in an immediate disqualification. So you can't copy maps from other titles, from previous contests, or from other players -- unless otherwise stated. 3rd criteria is neatness and fluidity. You can have a map full of aesthetics which looks beautiful but plays poorly and you could have a neat and well-thought-out map which looks like a bunch of card-board cut outs. Neatness and fluidity measure how well the map plays whereas Originality and creativity measure how well the map looks.
    Bonus Criteria: In addition to necessities, a map can earn a bonus for the following:
    Symbolizing and/or demonstrating any or all of the Army's core values (+1 for each, up to a maximum of 7
    Having an Easter Egg (6 points)
    Army Trivia. ( +1 for each, up to a maximum of 6).

    There's an example of a score sheet below.
    Book1.xlsx 10.3K
    Teamwork is essential, it gives the enemy other people to shoot at



    P0asKE2.jpg
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,121Player
    edited October 2018
    Based on a post I can find, the first mapping contest had somewhere between 20-30 submissions. That was when the community was at its most active. If we were to limit it to 2 per mapper, I honestly can't see more than 15-20 submissions unless some guys come out of the woodwork.

    Themes? No thanks. The first three mapping contests (I think there were three? or was it two?) were all themed and the winners were all relegated to the dust bin more or less. Let people just get creative. There's an unlimited amount of things people can draw inspiration from, there's no reason to limit people. Sure, it would be fun to do a Christmas map, but you know what? If you want a Christmas map, make a Christmas map. We don't need 20 Christmas maps.

    Devs ultimately choose the winning maps, it's their game, they choose the winners. Of course we can all give our input as to which maps are the best, and hopefully the Devs weigh our opinions when choosing the winners. Also, I wouldn't even limit it to one winner or three winners. If all ten maps are amazing and are deserving to be in the game, then go for it. Obviously, we would have the most talented map makers in the world in this community of such a thing happen, but you get the point.

    I've stated in earlier posts, the main criteria should be playability. That means layout, gameplay flow, how well the map plays. Aesthetics are well and good, but you could have a cruddy looking map that plays amazing and an amazing looking map that plays poorly. Plus, the Dev team can take the winning map and dress it up nice once that time comes. In essence, the map should play well with a full 12v12 server, but also be able to play well in a competitive match, hence why I think objective styles should be limited.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    Why don't we push the community to actually build GAMEPLAY maps instead of artwork?

    The best GAMEPLAY wins. And....let the Comp crowd outline what that entails.

    The Devs can always art it up if the basics are already good.
    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,121Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Why don't we push the community to actually build GAMEPLAY maps instead of artwork?

    The best GAMEPLAY wins. And....let the Comp crowd outline what that entails.

    The Devs can always art it up if the basics are already good.

    Agreed. That's what I was getting at. Obviously a mapper can make the map pretty to the best of their ability, but it shouldn't be a criteria for judging.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Developer
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Why don't we push the community to actually build GAMEPLAY maps instead of artwork?

    The best GAMEPLAY wins. And....let the Comp crowd outline what that entails.

    The Devs can always art it up if the basics are already good.

    Yeah I agree.
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,121Player
    Bump. Wondering if we can get any kind of word on if this will actually kick off any time soon. I see on the AA facebook page that people are asking for new maps. What do you know?
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Developer
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Bump. Wondering if we can get any kind of word on if this will actually kick off any time soon. I see on the AA facebook page that people are asking for new maps. What do you know?

    They are slated for "soon" and believe me I feel the pressure more than you
  • SiNsOfThEDeViLSiNsOfThEDeViL Posts: 106Player
    Remastering old maps would also be cool like Pipeline, Border, Urban Assault etc
    Or just adding already UMM versions of those old maps or new maps to the official list would also rock!


    Whatever you do, you cannot outrun the devil.

    Steam
  • SiNsOfThEDeViLSiNsOfThEDeViL Posts: 106Player
    Oh and Mountain Pass, forgot to add that little fella in :expressionless:


    Whatever you do, you cannot outrun the devil.

    Steam
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