MAP FEEDBACK: Downtown and Shadow Step

2

Comments

  • iNv|eKCommiNv|eKComm Posts: 394Player
    This actually isn't an attempt to stop people from supporting on the window. When people support up on the window they are right at the edge of the window, more easily visible and more vulnerable.

    This is more an attempt to combat the player who stands back as far away from the window as possible and usually at an odd angle, giving themselves a powerful position while making it hard, at times, for players on the other team to easily pick them out in the position.

    Basically, we want players saying "There is a guy in Bakery!", not "There was a guy in Bakery?" after they get shot. It is more about readability of the space and introducing some tradeoffs to a powerful position.

    Sounds like an issue of not having true first person and players not paying attention. Just because some players are less competent isn't a reason for dumbing down the game for everyone else to give an impression of a "fair" playing field.

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  • ddra-ddra- Posts: 453Player
    The bakery window was fine. The fact that you guys even thought to change something that needed ZERO fixing really worries me about the direction this game is taking. The blue tarp that was placed so people can't stand in the railing...where's the creativity?

    This change along with the previous changes to Crossfire... I feel like we are not even playing the same game.
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  • med!hustLe-med!hustLe- Posts: 26Player
    If the bad players spent more time improving at the game & less time lobbying for adjustments, new dumb down features and whatever the [TOS Violation] else they cry about, then the DEVs could actually fix the obvious issues with this game currently.

    Please like my post. tehehee.
  • SxerksSxerks Posts: 17Player
    Downtown
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    There was a terrain problem (BUG) that was introduced to the attacker sniper position. There is a pencil thin ledge on the South part of the sniper platform that keeps you at platform height as you go down the stairs.
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    For general balance, it is too easy to mount upper planter and kill the sniper(either mounted or back on the stairs) in the attackers sniper roost.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    If people couldn't exploit the fact that your pawn is virtually invisible due to the gun firing out of your forehead, then playing the angles in that window from way back wouldn't be such a big deal. The fact that 'good' players know this and 'bad' players don't (yet) is hardly a resounding judgment for or against either player. It's a mechanic that is problematic, and unrealistic (and unlikely to be fixed.)

    Leaning the edge of a wall or window is like a 'bush camper' and no one wants to admit it. Just don't talk about it as if exploiting it is a skill....

    You guys talk OP this and OP that all the time and then ignore this issue?

    Flame suit has been donned.... :)
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  • iNv|eKCommiNv|eKComm Posts: 394Player
    edited May 2015
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    If people couldn't exploit the fact that your pawn is virtually invisible due to the gun firing out of your forehead, then playing the angles in that window from way back wouldn't be such a big deal. The fact that 'good' players know this and 'bad' players don't (yet) is hardly a resounding judgment for or against either player. It's a mechanic that is problematic, and unrealistic (and unlikely to be fixed.)

    Leaning the edge of a wall or window is like a 'bush camper' and no one wants to admit it. Just don't talk about it as if exploiting it is a skill....

    You guys talk OP this and OP that all the time and then ignore this issue?

    Flame suit has been donned....

    You ask for flame. Many games work this way. No one with half decent problem solving skills would expose more of themselves than necessary. The fact that exposing only as much as you need means that the tip of your head is all thats visible is somthing that ALL players have the capability of understanding. Failure to learn to master and grasp the basics of covering and protecting yourself is the fault of the player.
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    In contrast, it doesn't matter how many times you look at a bush. If it has 100% concealment then you wont see the player inside ( such as the case on three kings) THAT is a true problem. Don't try to skew one issue to use as comparison to something that really isn't a problem at all.
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    The change to the window is bad. Its a bad solution to a grander problem (lack of training). Its also a terrible design decision for the map visually. It effects gameplay negatively and makes a proper position impractical.
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  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    edited May 2015
    Yes, I mostly agree....but....if you had to expose more of yourself that window wouldn't be as OP. How is it fair that someone new to the game has to put in years of FPS gaming to understanding in-world geometry and camera position? They just want to have some fun. The sniper is already powerful enough, let alone up in that window. The new Downtown will be VERY interesting....!

    :)

    Y'all have precious little empathy. The people dying DO think it's a problem.....you guys think they should automatically understand what's happening, or take their ball and go home.
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  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    Bakery window is considered OP because you can only see the head of an enemy, meanwhile bushes are fine when you can't see the enemy at all. You can argue about the people proning in bushes need to change position after getting one kill but then you'd also have to argue about people being stupid to challange someone sniping from bakery window after he already got a kill. There are ways to avoid as well as counter that position other than running around in the middle like a headless chicken.
  • iNv|eKCommiNv|eKComm Posts: 394Player
    I don't base any of my decisions on personal preferences. More of just logical reasoning and observations from what has worked well in the past and other games. For that reason, I don't care what the people dying believe. You don't just make a change because people are dying. If it makes sense then it make sense. You need something that doesn't make sense (like bushes that provide 100% concealment) to warrant change.
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  • Bam4DBam4D Posts: 976Player
    edited May 2015
    100% concealment keeps the game spicy, Man up.. it's just pixels. :)

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  • Bam4DBam4D Posts: 976Player
    edited May 2015
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Y'all have precious little empathy. The people dying DO think it's a problem.....you guys think they should automatically understand what's happening, or take their ball and go home.

    Nailed it....

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  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    edited May 2015
    Bam4D wrote: »
    100% concealment keeps the game spicy, Man up.. it's just pixels. :)

    Then not even 100% concealment of bakery window is fine too :)

    On a serious note, so many guys here lacking understanding of good game design, it's really sad that it's mostly competitive players suggesting good changes because apparently the pubbers don't like them.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    Judging by WHICH posts?
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  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    edited May 2015
    I don't REALLY have an issue with it per se....I'm trying to flesh out the topic by adding another side to it. I think that "other side" is the issue of edge/camera geometry (and probably map design in general.) People learning the maps and understanding some of the more in-depth issues is a good thing as well, but I don't think it's just about newbness. Therefore, I spoke up.

    For me personally, I rarely complain about the way something is in the game. I just play it and try to rise to the challenge. I figure most of the stuff that gets me killed is my own fault.

    Doesn't mean I don't have opinions or ideas to share for the sake of discussion. Heck, maybe someone will come up with an interesting point instead of a flame and the conversation will be better for it.

    Either way, I'm not afraid to look like a fool and say something. I have lots of experience in that role... :p
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  • SithHunterSithHunter Posts: 109Player
    For me the fact that you are shooting with your forehead in AA always added to the experience, let me explain why: if there is a firefight between 2 players that only expose so little, it takes more precision to finish off the enemy and whole engagement is longer and feels more rewarding at the end. Problem might be when players don't have similar cover available but there are always more options than trying to out-aim an enemy that has much better firing postiton.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    Well, this is where I get into the 'bush camper' comparison: The shots can 'apparently' come from just about anywhere when nothing but a forehead is showing, especially with the M24. By the time you scrutinize every possible source of exposure, you're dead. Isn't that what the bush discussion was about?

    Again...I die too easily by far, and it's MY OWN fault. I learn a lot from these discussions when people actually address why I'm wrong instead of just saying I'm a moron.
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  • SithHunterSithHunter Posts: 109Player
    edited May 2015
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Well, this is where I get into the 'bush camper' comparison: The shots can 'apparently' come from just about anywhere when nothing but a forehead is showing, especially with the M24. By the time you scrutinize every possible source of exposure, you're dead. Isn't that what the bush discussion was about?

    Again...I die too easily by far, and it's MY OWN fault. I learn a lot from these discussions when people actually address why I'm wrong instead of just saying I'm a moron.

    Well, for me it's like that, AA whether it was to go arcade or realism way, doesn't matter, wasn't type of game that holds your hand all the time and learning spots on map the hard way was part of the route up to the best players. If a spot you know has very good cover/view etc. it is always very likely someone will be there, so you can always pop some shots there or ask someone to supress that position without tryig to spot if someone there really is.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    Sometimes I wish I played with a clan that actually pre-planned stuff and did proper comms.... :(
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