I stop talking about COMP and COMPY and whatever you want to call it when you have no clue what it truly means.
This is not aimed at any individual, but I think I know what it means, basically the word "Comp" is by association to such a thing.. a seemingly free licence to be an indirect jerk to the general public both ingame and in the forums.. yes, both happen.
Just telling an observed truth over time, because nobody else has the cojones to say it. People seriously wonder why nobody sticks around on the forum? it's not hard to understand, just observe posting behaviours and attitudes within our 30 strong (1%) of active forum members and you will start to notice a trend.
I think it's obvious other stuff needs to be ironed out first, but why not add features that not everyone will use, but that will appeal to certain people? The only valid reason not to is 'limited resources and priority.' Everything else is just some player trying to tell others how they ought to game.
I have a hard time imagining the battle planner seeing much use. Simple strategies are easily spoken to one another, complicated strategies generally aren't worth the time they'd take to draw -- too much changes too quickly.
For teams working on tactics, I've always felt it's better to be moving around pawns inside the level to better think about the exposures and angles. Overhead maps are for solo theorycrafting or recording what the team figured out earlier during in-game trials.
As an aside -- didn't one of the Euro comp teams make an AAPG battleplan map utility? It was a peer-to-peer utility that let the clients draw on the game's overhead maps, show flash/nade locations, etc. I can't remember where I downloaded it from or what it was called.
no it wont be.. it wasnt used in the past it wont be taken seriously again so whats the point.. and please this "it wont be used by YOU" is ridiculous.. I played all of AA3 and cant recall anyone ever using it.. maybe for the points just to set the colors on each obj so when its complete, they get the extra points! otherwise useless.. move on
It was used, sporadic, but no one hardly followed the directions, for several reasons.
No one is going to go to a waypoint out in the open close to the enemy spawn, at least im not.
This brings me to another point that I've made before.
I find VOIP difficult to use. Especially due to lag. I hate talking over others and so I tend to keep my mouth shut except in the most dire circumstance or when I'm confident three words will suffice.
I'm not getting the most out of VOIP and criticize me all you want, I suspect others are in the same boat.
Well, more on TS2, but just like cell phone lag, it can mess with the flow of knowing when one person has stopped talking so you can proceed. Either way, I find that ingame VOIP is very time sensitive so if you don't know how to speak in the short cut terms the good players are using for locations, etc, then you hold back. I sure don't want to hog the airwaves with questions about tactics or where support is needed on VOIP. It's WAY too easy to talk over each other. That's why something else might help.
I also notice the ingame Briefing Audio at the start of the round messes with valuable time to give last minute instructions or whatever. Usually the entire team hasn't joined the VOIP channel at the same time either so you can't discuss until everyone is in. Then, they're choosing weapons, the Briefing starts and it's game on. When do you talk about a plan?
Go "Y" is not a plan....
Who ever says "Okay, you guys cover this lane, you other guys cover here, and a team will push up into HERE?"
i've mentioned this before that the voice talking at the start of the round "this is a pop and drop..." needs to be quiet or an option to turn him off, so that time can be used to talk to your teammates and let each other know who's going where.
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keebler, i'd have to say you must have never played with me, because i don't care if i hog voip. the difference is i know how to use it properly, and i'm not shy about hogging it...even if that means i'm talking to myself.
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idk how many of them can hear me... i'm trying to "mentor" my team of pub nubs into changing their behavior, get out of spawn, move up, and join the fight.... like "hey, see me up ahead? i've already cleared these 3 buildings guys. you need to move up out of spawn and help me push to the objective. i'm already out of ammo because i was up here killing 1/2 the enemy team by myself... time to move up fellas..." now i don't say all that, but that's how i feel when i'm asking my team to move up. area is clear. and they stay in spawn and don't move an inch.
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when one person like me is talking excessively, it is a symptom that the rest of the team isn't listening or reacting to that person's intel in a timely manner..
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i don't like having to repeat myself, but it is a free game and you are bound to have to deal with a lot of players that either don't have a clue in one way or another.... mostly people who can't manage to leave spawn.
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still, me talking to a team of people who don't even understand English or w/e is still more useful than a battle planner. every once in a while i'll get someone on my team with a mic and we can team up and work together. those are the times i feel like i've made a positive impact by getting a new player to break out of their shell and take some risks with me and play the game the way it is designed.
so many people writing wall of text. when it comes to planning... let me sum it up for you...
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voip > a drawing board
For the battle planner to work, it needs to be brought alongside with fireteams. Once players are organized into their role and position of Alpha/Bravo/Charlie, that's when the planner will be beneficial, and only then.
Also - I never use the SAW, does that mean it shouldn't be there? Of course not. In the previous version of AA I used the planner all the time and people actually went with it. If you think the feature is worthless to you then simply don't click into a Commanding or leading role. Play as you've always played.
Simply saying, "Hey you guys over there go West, i'll take dark room, and you guys over there go top glass" doesn't work in a pub. Now, if people are in their fireteams and you say those same routes alongside while VISUALLY AIDING those same routes with the planner, things will get done.
Think of it like a whiteboard and the coach is drawing up the play. The players know the plays, but seeing them drawn up helps everyone internalize the info. The devs are free to use lines, pawns, shields, etc. They can make it any way they want, don't think of it as just lines exactly like it was before. And at the end of the day, don't like it - Don't use it.
i still don't see how a planner will work, except a situation where you want to come up with a reference screenshot of several plays, like a playbook, just to reference... but that would be where each member is assigned an area to sit and defend. but why not just spend 5-10 seconds in voip and say "you sit in vent. i'll watch north stairs, and guy #3 watch south stairs. guy #4 you float around and replace the first person who dies..."
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as far as pushes, it's just not valuable. i'd love some bigger maps where there are various lanes to choose from, but even then a simple callout on voip "let's take the VIP north and extract through blue building. i'll sit back and defend our rear flank." would suffice.
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as is this game is just far too simple. it's about winning your 1v1 engagements. as soon as one person dies your "plan" is scrapped and you come up with a new one on the fly. you adapt. constantly.
You know what else? Understanding the map really matters. You guys that practically do this for a living have no idea what it's like for someone to hop in and figure out what's going on with everyone seeming to speak in code and playing to some apparently invisible plan. Some of you are really good at analysis, partly from playing a map a lot, and partly from time spent in general on angles and tactics.
How can we bring the lower levels UP and improve the gameplay for those that want to learn BEFORE they get hosed too much and leave?
i try not to speak "in code" at all. i use callouts for things that make sense. and if it is unclear, then feel free speak up and ask. there's no harm in asking which building or hallway is "blue". i don't mind answering those questions.
i try not to speak "in code" at all. i use callouts for things that make sense. and if it is unclear, then feel free speak up and ask. there's no harm in asking which building or hallway is "blue". i don't mind answering those questions.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point.
The most verbal action i've seen on servers is "We need to play more defensively", after losing a round. Or, "i'll cover front door, you guys go out back".
Also, while you personally might not mind breaking down spots and explaining these to new players, many others do mind(I don't have the patience for it at all times). If they can simply place a pawn, or move lines to show a general route/flanks to take, it makes the whole process much easier. It also allows players who may not speak English, or not own a microphone, the ability to tactically contribute to their team.
At the end, isn't that what we want? People of different skill levels, different backgrounds, playing together, as a team - towards a goal.
I stop talking about COMP and COMPY and whatever you want to call it when you have no clue what it truly means.
This is not aimed at any individual, but I think I know what it means, basically the word "Comp" is by association to such a thing.. a seemingly free licence to be an indirect jerk to the general public both ingame and in the forums.. yes, both happen.
Just telling an observed truth over time, because nobody else has the cojones to say it. People seriously wonder why nobody sticks around on the forum? it's not hard to understand, just observe posting behaviours and attitudes within our 30 strong (1%) of active forum members and you will start to notice a trend.
The biggest issue I notice is with feedback and suggestions, nobody here will allow any sort of agreement to anyone's thoughts or ideas.. virtually anything posted is instantly dismissed straight away by individuals with their own 'my way or the highway' bubbles of thought that are always somehow superior. There's no compromising.. no discussion.. there's just simply no love for fellow player. I'm afraid that the forum will never grow with such a divided community, sadly it's all because of peoples superiority complexes.
Hang on.. Why am I even wasting my breath. Nothing ever changes.. What was the topic again? Oh yeah Battle planner..
^^ Just add this part to AAPG, it just looks better.
Not to try and derail this thread But its pretty simple. Stop associating people as Comp and people as Pub or whatever and just treat everyone equally. This goes for both sides but I never ever in any my posts. Mention Comp people vs pub people. Especially if you have no clue why some people are even consider in the forums automatic comp players. just stop it all.
Battleplanner is simply useless with AA:PG map design and team size. General idea of giving and following orders in pub have to be very strictly forced by community and have reasons in game mechanics, check out BF2: Project Reality for example, where map functions like a real-time battleplanner during the match (you have a team commander and 9 squad leaders giving orders on a 2x2km or 4x4km size maps) and it makes sense there, because to achieve reasonable objective-based gameplay on maps this size you need orders and people following them, because if people were doing what they want on such maps, nothing interesting would be happening.
AA:PG like many other smaller scale FPS games uses laws of natural distribution and map design to give interesting gameplay- people will pick roles and maps spots according to player skill, personal preference, tactical value of given position etc.
Fireteams on the other hand can change how certain map plays and how fun it is drastically and implementing it doesn't mean we have to get rid of current game-style but simply give more options ( in AA2 and AA3 you could choose to have all fireteams open all the time or depending on the player count in the server).
Comments
Nailed it....
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********Bam4D********BE ALL (THAT) YOU CAN BE!
________Army 1980_________
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********Bam4D********BE ALL (THAT) YOU CAN BE!
________Army 1980_________
To come back to the battleplanner, it is something that would be quite useful to units who are training, working out tactics and so forth.
For teams working on tactics, I've always felt it's better to be moving around pawns inside the level to better think about the exposures and angles. Overhead maps are for solo theorycrafting or recording what the team figured out earlier during in-game trials.
As an aside -- didn't one of the Euro comp teams make an AAPG battleplan map utility? It was a peer-to-peer utility that let the clients draw on the game's overhead maps, show flash/nade locations, etc. I can't remember where I downloaded it from or what it was called.
No one is going to go to a waypoint out in the open close to the enemy spawn, at least im not.
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voip > a drawing board
I find VOIP difficult to use. Especially due to lag. I hate talking over others and so I tend to keep my mouth shut except in the most dire circumstance or when I'm confident three words will suffice.
I'm not getting the most out of VOIP and criticize me all you want, I suspect others are in the same boat.
I also notice the ingame Briefing Audio at the start of the round messes with valuable time to give last minute instructions or whatever. Usually the entire team hasn't joined the VOIP channel at the same time either so you can't discuss until everyone is in. Then, they're choosing weapons, the Briefing starts and it's game on. When do you talk about a plan?
Go "Y" is not a plan....
Who ever says "Okay, you guys cover this lane, you other guys cover here, and a team will push up into HERE?"
No one that I've ever seen.
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keebler, i'd have to say you must have never played with me, because i don't care if i hog voip. the difference is i know how to use it properly, and i'm not shy about hogging it...even if that means i'm talking to myself.
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idk how many of them can hear me... i'm trying to "mentor" my team of pub nubs into changing their behavior, get out of spawn, move up, and join the fight.... like "hey, see me up ahead? i've already cleared these 3 buildings guys. you need to move up out of spawn and help me push to the objective. i'm already out of ammo because i was up here killing 1/2 the enemy team by myself... time to move up fellas..." now i don't say all that, but that's how i feel when i'm asking my team to move up. area is clear. and they stay in spawn and don't move an inch.
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when one person like me is talking excessively, it is a symptom that the rest of the team isn't listening or reacting to that person's intel in a timely manner..
-
i don't like having to repeat myself, but it is a free game and you are bound to have to deal with a lot of players that either don't have a clue in one way or another.... mostly people who can't manage to leave spawn.
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still, me talking to a team of people who don't even understand English or w/e is still more useful than a battle planner. every once in a while i'll get someone on my team with a mic and we can team up and work together. those are the times i feel like i've made a positive impact by getting a new player to break out of their shell and take some risks with me and play the game the way it is designed.
For the battle planner to work, it needs to be brought alongside with fireteams. Once players are organized into their role and position of Alpha/Bravo/Charlie, that's when the planner will be beneficial, and only then.
Also - I never use the SAW, does that mean it shouldn't be there? Of course not. In the previous version of AA I used the planner all the time and people actually went with it. If you think the feature is worthless to you then simply don't click into a Commanding or leading role. Play as you've always played.
Simply saying, "Hey you guys over there go West, i'll take dark room, and you guys over there go top glass" doesn't work in a pub. Now, if people are in their fireteams and you say those same routes alongside while VISUALLY AIDING those same routes with the planner, things will get done.
Think of it like a whiteboard and the coach is drawing up the play. The players know the plays, but seeing them drawn up helps everyone internalize the info. The devs are free to use lines, pawns, shields, etc. They can make it any way they want, don't think of it as just lines exactly like it was before. And at the end of the day, don't like it - Don't use it.
Fragmovie 6 | iNv Discord
FGNL Season 1 Champions
FN Season 2 & 4 Champions
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as far as pushes, it's just not valuable. i'd love some bigger maps where there are various lanes to choose from, but even then a simple callout on voip "let's take the VIP north and extract through blue building. i'll sit back and defend our rear flank." would suffice.
-
as is this game is just far too simple. it's about winning your 1v1 engagements. as soon as one person dies your "plan" is scrapped and you come up with a new one on the fly. you adapt. constantly.
How can we bring the lower levels UP and improve the gameplay for those that want to learn BEFORE they get hosed too much and leave?
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point.
The most verbal action i've seen on servers is "We need to play more defensively", after losing a round. Or, "i'll cover front door, you guys go out back".
Also, while you personally might not mind breaking down spots and explaining these to new players, many others do mind(I don't have the patience for it at all times). If they can simply place a pawn, or move lines to show a general route/flanks to take, it makes the whole process much easier. It also allows players who may not speak English, or not own a microphone, the ability to tactically contribute to their team.
At the end, isn't that what we want? People of different skill levels, different backgrounds, playing together, as a team - towards a goal.
Fragmovie 6 | iNv Discord
FGNL Season 1 Champions
FN Season 2 & 4 Champions
Not to try and derail this thread But its pretty simple. Stop associating people as Comp and people as Pub or whatever and just treat everyone equally. This goes for both sides but I never ever in any my posts. Mention Comp people vs pub people. Especially if you have no clue why some people are even consider in the forums automatic comp players. just stop it all.
AA:PG like many other smaller scale FPS games uses laws of natural distribution and map design to give interesting gameplay- people will pick roles and maps spots according to player skill, personal preference, tactical value of given position etc.
Fireteams on the other hand can change how certain map plays and how fun it is drastically and implementing it doesn't mean we have to get rid of current game-style but simply give more options ( in AA2 and AA3 you could choose to have all fireteams open all the time or depending on the player count in the server).