CSGO Skill discussion (Split from another thread)

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  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    The thing about CS is that one can learn the recoil and make it seem like there really isn't any.. can't do that in AA, it's just too random but it can be controlled to a certain group size.

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  • Dct.F|LeventeDct.F|Levente Posts: 624Player
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    The thing about CS is that one can learn the recoil and make it seem like there really isn't any.. can't do that in AA, it's just too random but it can be controlled to a certain group size.

    CSGO also has some randomness to it and I think fully mastering the patterns is no easy task.
    Theory and reality are not that different. In theory.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Not sure what no easy task means I've played the game but not long enough, dont care to master because it's not my #1.. however if it was, there are many shoot houses to master recoil I've seen on YouTube..

    How long would it possibly take me to master the M4 or any guns recoil if I just continue to play the shoot house..
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  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    edited September 2016
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    Not sure what no easy task means I've played the game but not long enough, dont care to master because it's not my #1.. however if it was, there are many shoot houses to master recoil I've seen on YouTube..

    How long would it possibly take me to master the M4 or any guns recoil if I just continue to play the shoot house..

    I dont think anybody control the recoil 100% there are few reasons why
    1. Pro players almost never spray, every weapon has a precise number of bullets that hit on spot, for example if you are standing with AK47 you can shoot 3-4 bullets straight on, so pro players usually shoot those if they miss they move reset and do it again.
    2. learning the spray pattern is great in theory but while ingame in a fight you will never remember the exact way to do it, you can get a global idea on how they work and try to follow throught. another example with the AK47 after the 4th or 5th bullet you need to start going left and down and towards the end swing abit to the right. i dont think there is anybody out there that can follow the spray pattern completly.

    i hope i shed some light on this matter
  • CaterPCaterP Posts: 190Developer
    This thread reminds me of a conversation I was having with someone several years back about skill in Quake vs. other games. I maintained (and still do) that Quake has perhaps the highest skill ceiling of any FPS yet made.

    We were watching a match and he would comment how the game was all reflexes and aim. I (as a long time Quake player) was trying to explain it was much more than that as map control and footwork were at least as important (by footwork I mean being able to keep strafe speed high). Not to mention inventory control, as fast weapon switching made for some interesting combos.

    No matter how much I tried to explain it I don't think he really got it. I suppose one has to experience it to understand it.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Funny thing about Quake is it's shooting Lazerz meaning it's all aim not fighting any recoil.. simply who's better at aiming, that's why adding recoil isn't always the answer .. it should be player vs player not plater vs the game.

    Maybe why many think the early Beta version of AA was still the best, and since then we simple made it too complicated.
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  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,161Player
    Funny thing is that people were calling for more recoil for a long time. In any sense R6 siege is a game where there is no sway and recoil isn't all that harsh either. Game is practically all CQB though.
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  • [Prt_Dictator][Prt_Dictator] Posts: 275Player
    Having a recoil is fine, having a recoil that randomly goes from zero to eleven while going left and right is not fine. Doesn't matter who you are, if the game says you're not hitting, you're not hitting.
    I don't think you can build a good game with inconsistency as its foundation.
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    I don't think you can build a good game with inconsistency as its foundation.

    Poker
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    The core of poker is intensely random. Random hands dealt. Random cards shown. Everything about the game comes down to mitigating the randomness: what are the odds you get the cards you want? What are the odds you make the straight? What are the odds your opponent has a better hand? What do the bets tell you?

    And yet it's a hugely popular game complete with televised competitive series.
  • [Prt_Dictator][Prt_Dictator] Posts: 275Player
    You can't be for real comparing poker to first person shooters.
    I mean... you almost got me there, 5/7 troll post.
  • frankoffrankof Posts: 1,077Moderator
    poker only has limited randomness as its only 52 possible values.
    and dont bother with doing the math, its not relevant for the randomness of a FPS.

    And i still dislike random recoil.
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  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    frankof wrote: »
    poker only has limited randomness as its only 52 possible values.
    and dont bother with doing the math, its not relevant for the randomness of a FPS.

    And i still dislike random recoil.
    "Only" 52 cards is enough that you'll never see the same game twice. The number of possible deck arrangements is insanely huge, but I guess math is scary or something?

    "Not relevant" is missing the point. "Randomness" shouldn't automatically be anathema for competition.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    I also highly doubt the recoil in our guns is the problem the game is failing .. failing obviously looking at the numbers playing..

    If we had a predictable pattern would that suddenly increase the player base.. no .. way too much emphasis on recoil here
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  • CaterPCaterP Posts: 190Developer
    Not to TOTALLY derail this thread, but recoil for us doesn't strike me as being as random as some make it out to me. It is always up and to the right and at the same general angle for each weapon.

    This is in Swenson range firing all four magazines of the M4 standing, ADS, with no correction.

    2efca2f768.jpg

  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Those little jumps when trying to correct the recoil is what makes it seem random, just when you think you got it good it takes an unexpected jump in any direction .. sometimes the jump seems large.. mostly due to the distance of your enemy
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  • [Prt_Dictator][Prt_Dictator] Posts: 275Player
    I've done a video on this in the past, its pretty clear that the left/right jumps are insanely inconsistent and unpredictable.
  • frankoffrankof Posts: 1,077Moderator
    edited September 2016
    I've done a video on this in the past, its pretty clear that the left/right jumps are insanely inconsistent and unpredictable.
    The "raw" recoil isn't that bad to look at, but it doesn't really show the issue, if you try to "control" that recoil, you will see that it at random points jump a considerable distance to the left/right, its a surprise when you find your self off to the left side when you should be off to the right side given the general recoil pattern.


    ss_4_frankof.png
  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,161Player
    edited September 2016
    AA2 had randomness too... even while ADS (which AAPG doesn't even have)


    Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of how in any AA game you can hold the mouse down and just try to keep your crosshair over the target all while moving. It's actually how it is in every military FPS game except maybe CS, but that's another story.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • KodenKoden Posts: 284Player
    edited September 2016
    AAPG requires barely no skill at this point, spray and pray, hipfire from 1 corner to ther other of the map... bah

    I dont like csgo a lot, but I totally agree about that, it is a fact a lot of "pub" players use the m249 to gain the sheer advantage over the amounts of bullet (and suppression) they can output. And indeed it also suck because of the aim punch.
    Derob6.jpg
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