Ridiculous 150ms ping kick

Hello guys,

It's been more and more difficult finding a server to play because many of them are implementing the "150ms ping limit". I'm from Argentina and I get around 160 - 190ms ping on a US Server.
Official Servers are empty most of the time, so if I want to play I have to go to a private server.

Aparently, many of the AA players don't realize that the player base is going down fast and this kind of rules results in more people leaving this game.

I can't seem to understand why many of you thinks that a "high ping" (180ms is NOT a high ping) is an advantage, when in any case is a disadvantage.

Good luck playing by yourself (and not in a fun way hahahhaha)
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Comments

  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    Good luck with this. The dev team's taken the view that private servers can do whatever they want. They can kick you because they don't like Argentinians and that's fine since "they pay, they can do what they want."

    It's bad policy, but that's been the party line for a long time now.

    In before thread lock for pointing out private server management issues.
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    edited August 2016
    A lot of private servers have that 150 max ping ruling. It's said that anymore and the game becomes unplayable for the low ping players.. not sure of the truth in that, since your ping does not affect them but like saccho said, they pay so you gotta go with their rules.

    I'd never mention names but I've been booted for being just 2 ping over that 150 limit before, which is why I'm throwing this emote here > :lol:
    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    Too many high pings = worse server performance O.o
  • TheTotsTheTots Posts: 2,279Player
    For better or worse our policy is that private servers can set this limit. Starting your own server is an option, or just sticking to official servers. I typically see at least a few of them active any time of the day.

    Private servers and how they run things is certainly something we'll be discussing internally.
    The game wasn't made exactly to my specifications, so I feel it's broken.

  • ^MAROFEL.Arkeiro^^MAROFEL.Arkeiro^ Posts: 768Player
    Its like the policy of the official servers. No votekicks allowed but insta map change is. GJ...

    Over 1.4k Golden Hawkeyes.
  • -Ner0--Ner0- Posts: 1,575Player
    edited August 2016
    Right now I see 10 official servers, 5 is US server, with 159 people. Use the server filter.
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  • -Ner0--Ner0- Posts: 1,575Player
    {M.A.B} #2# Milicia Aramada Brasileira |6v6| IP 200.98.201.199 in Brazil. I think you will get a good ping there.
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  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    TheTots wrote: »
    For better or worse our policy is that private servers can set this limit. Starting your own server is an option, or just sticking to official servers. I typically see at least a few of them active any time of the day.

    Private servers and how they run things is certainly something we'll be discussing internally.

    You are mostly playing new players on officials. If you want to play against decent players you will always go for private servers. Thus some kind of rules that apply even for private servers would be great indeed.
  • =IK=.Scooby=IK=.Scooby Posts: 119Player
    I can't even play this game with a ping above 110(I live in Tennessee/East Coast USA, and in San Fran/Cali/etc servers I get pings of 120+). Start warping all over the place, and I know other players I'm playing against in the server see me warp too.

    Implying that 150+ doesn't change/effect play is a laughable idea, but that's just me.
  • -[U|S|A]-DannyBoy-[U|S|A]-DannyBoy Posts: 376Beta Tester
    If you ask 10 people the question "Does high ping players effect the game play of lower ping users? And if yes, what is a safe ping limit to set your server?"
    You will get 5 saying one way, and 5 saying the other..

    We have noticed, that keeping the pings low on our server does seem to make the server run smoothly, and when there are several high pings, over 160, members who do not see the pings complain of a little lag..

    We do not lower the ping to keep certain people off the server, our clan and community is multi nationality, It would have nothing to do with you or anyone being from Argentina or tim buck two, if the ping jumps to far over 150 you may get kicked..

    Until the dev's maka a post telling private server owners that high ping has nothing to do with server lag, or low ping players performance, or that in fact there is no advantage to the higher ping player, then you will continue to see owners keeping the pings down..
    One day I will graduate noob school!!!
    -[U|S|A]-DannyBoy!!


  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    If you ask 10 people the question "Does high ping players effect the game play of lower ping users? And if yes, what is a safe ping limit to set your server?"
    You will get 5 saying one way, and 5 saying the other..

    We have noticed, that keeping the pings low on our server does seem to make the server run smoothly, and when there are several high pings, over 160, members who do not see the pings complain of a little lag..

    We do not lower the ping to keep certain people off the server, our clan and community is multi nationality, It would have nothing to do with you or anyone being from Argentina or tim buck two, if the ping jumps to far over 150 you may get kicked..

    Until the dev's maka a post telling private server owners that high ping has nothing to do with server lag, or low ping players performance, or that in fact there is no advantage to the higher ping player, then you will continue to see owners keeping the pings down..

    I don't believe you were around for some of the really major discussions of ping, hit detection algorithms, and more during the open beta. The Devs have covered some of these issues; [Dev]Grubber was kind enough to offer to TeamSpeak with some players to discuss at length and I was lucky enough to take him up on it. Here's one of his posts on the topic.
    dgodfather wrote:
    It's only beneficial to those with poor connectivity. The rest of us are expected to be satisfied with the balancing of the system in favor of that. For people new or who haven't been gaming long they will never notice.
    In general there is no benefit for playing with poor connectivity. In certain game situations one could take advantage of their connectivity but the opponent could do the same to them.
    dgodfather wrote:
    Client side and compensation methods are only a mask for problems that exist deeper in the game.
    If they mask anything its internet problems. If we didn't play online then they wouldnt have anything to mask.
    dgodfather wrote:
    You've made up your mind. You see the current method as THE best solution.
    I thought we were having a discussion/debate? Have I once said any of the above? Someone has to have a counter point and most of my points have been in terms of how things actually work. The fact is there is a trade-off either way you go. The debate has been on which is better if there is a better.
    dgodfather wrote:
    It appears we won't change your mind on that. It's been explained before by a Dev that it's relatively easy to implement a server-side solution.
    Yup, I said that and it is.
    dgodfather wrote:
    I hope at some point your team decides to provide a server-side implementation as part of the testing environment so that players can see how the game really plays, which could be good or could be bad.
    I even made a task for this :).
    dgodfather wrote:
    It sounds like your suggesting that any other solution is going to provide a bad experience because of typical network architecture.
    Nope, I'll check my language to make sure I didn't. I only intended to collect the major points.
    dgodfather wrote:
    I would gather it's also pretty clear you are clearly in favor of altering the true path of connectivity in favor of presenting a better game.
    Nope, thats why we don't do it. We do allow client-side prediction to just keep animations playing while it waits for an update from the server if thats what you mean. But we do nothing with connectivity and its path.
    dgodfather wrote:
    I wonder how we made it to today without client-side architecture? A boat load of games have came out and made a lot of money and a lot of fans solely based on a server-side gaming experience.
    And a boatload more will continue to use it and other architectures to make games with. Server-side has its uses, its not going anywhere.
    dgodfather wrote:
    I hope you aren't that transparent. If so, we've got more problems than we ever anticipated. I'm not transparent, I don't think that client-side is a terrible thing for all games. I do think it's it's a bad idea for First Person Shooters which rely on twitch reactions.
    That is a perfectly valid position to have on the subject. I have spent tons of time in this thread making sure it gets the attention it needs. If I was decided on anything then I wouldn't continue talking it out with you guys. As a developer I need to ascertain what is really being said. What everyone wants and what the game needs are not always in alignment. We need to get to the heart of issues to see what can be fixed, what stays, what goes, and what can never happen.

    He covered many subjects in quite a lot of detail during the thread.
    http://archive2.forum.americasarmy.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=13581

    A good article series on networking design in games:
    http://www.gabrielgambetta.com/fpm1.html


    Anyway, moving to ping more directly, he explains that high ping doesn't directly create asymmetry.
    Imagine a scenario with where there are 3 instances, 2 clients and 1 server.
    Ok let's do this! I'm imagining!
    One client with a latency of 25 ms and another with a latency of 200 ms caused by the distance to the server (latency is the round trip time or the time that the packet takes to go and come back).
    Client A has 25 ms
    Client B has 200 ms
    Got it!
    Obviously, in this situation, both clients will have a different delay with their packets in the time needed to reach the server and, obviously, this would be noted by the clients having the respective delay in their actions, if it was a scenario without latency compensation mechanism.
    Client A takes 12.5ms to travel just to the server
    Client B takes 100ms to travel just to the server
    You just see there action 112.5 ms later then they performed it.
    When both clients have the perspective (experience) (gameplay) of the actions (that are occurring in the server) exactly without a single millisecond of delay (latency compensation) and if still one client needs 25 ms to reach the server and the other needs 200 ms to reach the server, we will not need a master degree in rocket science to understand that at least one (often both) will not have the correct (in matters of timing) perspective (experience) (gameplay) of the actions that are occurring in the server.
    Client A will see player B doing things player B did on their client 112.5ms ago.
    Client B will see player A doing things player A did on their client 112.5ms ago.
    Now, how the latency compensation mechanism interacts with this and it will adjust these incoherences? How exactly latency compensation works? Knowing that is not possible to remove the natural network latency caused by distance.
    I will let this question for developers, hoping that they are going to answer.
    You are right! We don't remove the natural network latency. All we do is allow you to hit what is "naturally" on your screen.

    The point there being that both A and B see one another's actions with equivalent delays.

    Remember that your connection to the server doesn't depend on another player's connection to the server. The server doesn't wait to hear back from high pingers before sending updates to your client. Could it be possible for high pings to cause the server program to hiccup? Maybe. But it seems just as likely to me that broader networking issues (high traffic, time of day being played, etc) could correlate to when people perceive problems. Or that players selectively remember the times when the admins come back and say "yeah, there's a high ping!" but not when the admins don't see one.


    It's a big topic. The Devs covered it in the past. They set policies based on their development and testing on the officials that doesn't include ping limits. They've stated that poor connectivity isn't a benefit.


    Take from it all what you will, but the Devs weren't silent on the broader topic of "netcode" during the open beta.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,608Beta Tester
    edited August 2016
    In my quest to debug my elevator desync issues in my map "Hostile," I stumbled across this, and I suspect there are deep issues in game code related to balancing gameplay on such an....unstable battleground....as a group of distant computers truly is:

    https://udn.epicgames.com/Three/ReplicationRelevancy.html

    If any of you have played AAPG on a LAN, I'm not convinced that lower ping is entirely fault-free. The fact that it often plays quite similar suggests that hit reg truly is about PEOPLE MISSING THEIR TARGET and getting grumpy about it.
    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • 312th still has a 300 ping limit. We also have multiple servers running different map rotations, not just Inner Hospital on Dallas I. Just sayin'.....
  • -[U|S|A]-DannyBoy-[U|S|A]-DannyBoy Posts: 376Beta Tester
    Thanks for that post Saccho,

    I was around during all that, in fact I was just as confused then as I am now lmao!!

    As far as I am concerned at this point, as long as the Admins, Members, and many friends that visit our server, based on keeping it at 150 ping, guess we will just leave it for now!!

    No disrespect to anyone who pings much higher guess you can always go to a server that allows it..

    Some one said earlier in this thread, good luck playing by yourself or something to that affect in regards to keeping pings low.. Well our clan is just about 5 months old, our main server has not left the top 10 list in gametracker.. Much due to the low pings, and this is what we are told daily..

    Any way, if one day they force us to allow higher pings we will deal with it then, until that time I guess it is game on!!!
    One day I will graduate noob school!!!
    -[U|S|A]-DannyBoy!!


  • LookAss^SuRLookAss^SuR Posts: 28Player
    312th still has a 300 ping limit. We also have multiple servers running different map rotations, not just Inner Hospital on Dallas I. Just sayin'.....

    Yes Sir! And I've always been welcome on your server.

    Let's hope that Server owners realize that high ping only affects the high pingers and eliminate the 150ms rule. I'm sure it would result in an increase in players playing.
  • TrIn@dOr^SuRTrIn@dOr^SuR Posts: 215Player
    edited August 2016
    I've played from Argentina (started in 2003) and now from the US. High ping kicks were ALWAYS the perfect scapegoat for players that like to call themselves players.
  • -SD-DELTON-ACI--SD-DELTON-ACI- Posts: 1,482Player
    edited August 2016
    -SD- ping limit is 240 but to be honest its only at that because of all the complaints we get form others about a players ping.
    Now only admins can see it who knows what your ping is =)
    I personally do think it makes a difference unless it gets silly like 500 or more then I don't think you would be able to enjoy the game with a ping so high.
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  • =IK=Wonkss=IK=Wonkss Posts: 92Player
    edited August 2016
    so people should have reduced game quality/enjoyment so you can playing on a na server from outside na ? you have the option to go buy another computer and put up a server then all your buddies can play with you and you don't make our experience worse and make yours better? I think its ridiculous that I have to shoot at a high ping player with 15 bullets to have them turn and shoot me from two feet in front of where I saw them. sorry that is just my opinion also a 300 ping limit is not a limit at all since being on the moon could give you less then 300 laughable.

    HooaH
  • [!ReDRuM!]L0rdDamian[!ReDRuM!]L0rdDamian Posts: 809Player
    edited August 2016
    Yes and No.

    No, players with a high ping will not cause any gameplay issues to other players. In fact it ruins their own gameplay unless that said player always plays with that kind of ping and is used to it.

    Yes, if there is a big difference in ping you may find it hard to shoot someone because they may not be exactly where you see him when you open fire. Also the netcode in this game isn't perfect, so if you have a full server specially on those with 10 spectator slots it might be possible that a player with 500+ ping causes - lagg spikes - to other players on the server.

    I personally think we need to agree and raise the bar of ping kicks to 300 instead of 150.
  • -Ner0--Ner0- Posts: 1,575Player
    Recently I've been playing mostly U.S. Official The Great Outdoors US/EU and can't notice the 100 ms difference here from europe.
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    Think positive thoughts,
    say positive words,
    do positive actions
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