Aim Punch Discussion (Split from Game Update Notes)

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  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,156Player
    I could live with
    No suppression
    Aim punch only with chest shots.

    Suppression helps automatic weapons too much.
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  • frankoffrankof Posts: 1,055Moderator
    suppression is supposed to be counter sniper to keep him down while the rest moves up, cant say that it really helps tho.
    Aimpunch is just a what happened moment, "why am i all of a sudden looking at the floor?"
    ss_4_frankof.png
  • GeekFuriousGeekFurious Posts: 8Player
    edited July 2016
    Interesting discussion. I'd actually like MORE things added to the game to simulate getting shot at and getting shot. Like how arm and leg wounds in virtually every shooter seem to have the same effect on your character as a chest or back hit (without the shot killing you, obviously). If a leg shot breaks the bone, you would more likely than not fall down. If your arm or hand is broken by a shot there, you'd no longer be able to use that arm and it would make shooting very difficult.

    Now, while getting shot in the chest or back would definitely affect your body, it really depends on where you are hit, whether the projectile impacts bone or just tissue, and whether the wound cavity impacts a major organ. Also, some people are just predisposed to being affected by traumatic injuries more severely than others (luck of the draw, really). These things will likely never be modeled accurately in a game, unless games start taking your DNA into account for your character... so, perhaps some of these elements of realism are highly unrealistic when they don't take ENOUGH variables into account.
  • CrushmasterCrushmaster Posts: 501Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    I could live with
    No suppression
    Aim punch only with chest shots.

    Suppression helps automatic weapons too much.
    This sounds like a good compromise to me.
  • -VI-#Sunvon.--VI-#Sunvon.- Posts: 47Player
    The problem with this game is it isnt a army sim nor a good shooter. Maybe the devs should think about in which direction this game shall go
  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,156Player
    Interesting discussion. I'd actually like MORE things added to the game to simulate getting shot at and getting shot. Like how arm and leg wounds in virtually every shooter seem to have the same effect on your character as a chest or back hit (without the shot killing you, obviously). If a leg shot breaks the bone, you would more likely than not fall down. If your arm or hand is broken by a shot there, you'd no longer be able to use that arm and it would make shooting very difficult.

    Now, while getting shot in the chest or back would definitely affect your body, it really depends on where you are hit, whether the projectile impacts bone or just tissue, and whether the wound cavity impacts a major organ. Also, some people are just predisposed to being affected by traumatic injuries more severely than others (luck of the draw, really). These things will likely never be modeled accurately in a game, unless games start taking your DNA into account for your character... so, perhaps some of these elements of realism are highly unrealistic when they don't take ENOUGH variables into account.

    I don't know that we'd want to go that far. Although I wouldn't mind the injury = reduced accuracy + movement speed. Maybe upper body hits impact accuracy more and lower body speed more. Although I think both penalties should be given to the player regardless of where they are hit.
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  • =IK=.Scooby=IK=.Scooby Posts: 119Player
    My biggest problem with aimpunch isn't that it exists, but that its inconsistent. There's times where it happens to me then other times where it never does. I don't know if that's the intended effect or just a bug in how it works or not, but from what I'm reading in this thread(granted no dev has said it, so maybe I'm looking too much in to it), it's supposed to happen every time you get shot...but maybe I'm wrong.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    I could live with
    No suppression
    Aim punch only with chest shots.

    Suppression helps automatic weapons too much.

    I rather be suppressed.. I can still have a chance at fighting back.. then having my gun randomly point at the ground leaving me helpless.

    CS has aim punch it only slows the player down, you can still shoot.. totally different.

    This game has too many things going on with sway, random recoil, aim punch, suppression etc... it's too much. You'd think it would add difficulty and increase skill bit I think it's doing the opposite.

    People want a skilled shooter not a complicated one.

    You need to get skill into this game, it's boring and the numbers reflect it... don't care what 1 or 2 new guys might say, chances are they won't be here long..we the core will
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  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,156Player
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    I could live with
    No suppression
    Aim punch only with chest shots.

    Suppression helps automatic weapons too much.

    I rather be suppressed.. I can still have a chance at fighting back.. then having my gun randomly point at the ground leaving me helpless.

    CS has aim punch it only slows the player down, you can still shoot.. totally different.

    This game has too many things going on with sway, random recoil, aim punch, suppression etc... it's too much. You'd think it would add difficulty and increase skill bit I think it's doing the opposite.

    People want a skilled shooter not a complicated one.

    You need to get skill into this game, it's boring and the numbers reflect it... don't care what 1 or 2 new guys might say, chances are they won't be here long..we the core will

    Actually, CS has aim punch in two cases.
    1. When a player wears armor and gets hit on the head, his crosshair moves.
    2. When a player doesn't wear armor and gets hit anywhere, his crosshair moves.
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  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,607Beta Tester
    Doba, what kind of skill can you have without complexity?

    Anyway, I've been thinking about this tonight, and I'm picturing my recent firefights. I can clearly see in my mind the suppression effects, and me fighting recoil to land the best shot before the other guy.

    For the life of me, I can't remember the last time I noticed ANY knockback effects at all. Is this actually working?
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  • =IK=.Scooby=IK=.Scooby Posts: 119Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Doba, what kind of skill can you have without complexity?

    Anyway, I've been thinking about this tonight, and I'm picturing my recent firefights. I can clearly see in my mind the suppression effects, and me fighting recoil to land the best shot before the other guy.

    For the life of me, I can't remember the last time I noticed ANY knockback effects at all. Is this actually working?

    It rarely does.

    Would probably be a stretch to say it even works 25% of the time(which for all I know the randomness of it could be an intended effect, I dunno), which is what makes it frustrating to me.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    .Scooby wrote: »
    It rarely does.

    Would probably be a stretch to say it even works 25% of the time

    exactly, its why I call it random.. but some like to correct me from time to time.. the fact that it cant be predicted makes it random.

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  • CrushmasterCrushmaster Posts: 501Player
    I never really notice it, at least not when using M4.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Doba, what kind of skill can you have without complexity?

    The skill that's between you and the opponent.. not random variations that can alter the outcome.
    I want to feel more in control I guess, I don't want my gun to drop randomly, I should have a chance to react if the opponent makes a poor shot, not be blurred out to death..

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  • Bashar_al-AssadBashar_al-Assad Posts: 579Player
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Doba, what kind of skill can you have without complexity?

    The skill that's between you and the opponent.. not random variations that can alter the outcome.
    I want to feel more in control I guess, I don't want my gun to drop randomly, I should have a chance to react if the opponent makes a poor shot, not be blurred out to death..
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Doba, what kind of skill can you have without complexity?

    The skill that's between you and the opponent.. not random variations that can alter the outcome.
    I want to feel more in control I guess, I don't want my gun to drop randomly, I should have a chance to react if the opponent makes a poor shot, not be blurred out to death..

    You want game to have "depth" and "skill" at the same time. Fine. Can you suggest a way to add depth?
  • iNv|revert-iNv|revert- Posts: 96Player
    Every since aimpunch was added I've seen a 100% increase of the spray and pray tactic.. but hey realism !
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    Out of curiosity, are you guys arguing for aim punch not seeing how it ruined firefights and how you are forced to spray and pray in most encounters? Is it because you have always used your gun that way? Don't you remember when you could actually aim and get rewarded for it? You keep talking about realism and depth but completely ignore the fact that this is about gameplay. If you'd fall to the ground from getting shot in the toe you wouldn't argue with realism as well and dislike that mechanic because it affects gameplay way too much.
  • CrushmasterCrushmaster Posts: 501Player
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    If you'd fall to the ground from getting shot in the toe you wouldn't argue with realism as well and dislike that mechanic because it affects gameplay way too much.
    That's a good point. While there may be a way to implement all of this stuff "realistically" in the future, we're certainly not there yet.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Pvt.Phushi wrote: »

    You want game to have "depth" and "skill" at the same time. Fine. Can you suggest a way to add depth?

    Depth, a word thrown around but what does it even mean? I think it's a topic on its own .. this is just about aim punch.

    Depth, could it relate to choice? Having options makes a game deeper, a way to outsmart your oponent through choice, but that sounds like map design give depth.

    Choice of weapon, each with something different to learn, master I guess recoil curves being different, sway being different.. attachments.. all this gives a player options to outperform another player... we have few options atm

    But I don't see how depth is added because randomly my gun goes to the ground.

    .. for the love of the game, if realism is your only argument find the door and stay out
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  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,156Player
    Aim punch is much more noticeable with zoomed optics. That's probably the intention anyway. Typically if I use a zoomed optic and get hit in the chest, the aim punch is enough for it to be practically impossible to recover. With the non-zoomed optics it's not as noticeable.

    If it isn't working on a 100% basis, then you have an issue. It shouldn't randomly kick in. If you want to say that X hits causes it, then fine. Maybe every 2nd hit causes aim punch. However, it needs to be reliable. A person should be able to go into a server and fire their weapon at a friend and know exactly when aim punch will kick in.

    In any sense, whichever is deemed to be more fitting for the game, I think the other (suppression vs. aim punch) needs to be taken out.

    At the very least, aim punch rewards a hit to the enemy. Suppression only rewards spraying. I get the point of suppression in a realistic sense, but it doesn't work in video games. No game I've ever played has made it work well enough that I liked the feature.
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