Server admin and 3rd party site (PBBans/ACI/ETC) discussion

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  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    The links and quotes I had in my post was DIRECTLY from Steam website. But maybe you know better how they deal with things.

    The thing I find funny is that you lot defend the VAC banned players who have caught cheating, and I mean CAUGHT FOR CHEATING. Me as a Server Owner and long time Anticheat personel don't care if you have chteated in CS:GO, AAPG, AA3, AA2, Battlefield or whatever game. You have a cheater record.
    Obiviously you can argue that long time bans should not count and as I live with ACI standards and we live 3 years from the last ban and if you have 2 bans 5 years. But alot of Server Owners are with once a cheater always a cheater mentality. And you say that is bad way?

    In previous thread I have seen posts where there has been talk about misuing the history tool and I will give you it and I do not like it one bit. For those who do not know how to use the history tool they should not make decisions to ban people on false assumption. I will take all responsibility on all misuse of the history tool. Since there is not updated versions on the GUIDE's what to use and I do not see one coming any time soon.

    Do not defend cheaters, if they are banned they have used cheats.

    Well i agree on most points here aswell but you need to understand one thing.
    As i see it and many others aswell cheating is
    "The gain of unfair advantage over other players" i dont know if steam still use this quote but i remember it from there.
    And while many players have been banned for this reason there are countless others that have been banned for things that does not justify a global ban from everything.
    You can read my example on page 2 or look at some examples online.
    I think the best example for it would be MW2, i persoanlly know many people that have recieved vac ban for joining a modded lobby. I dont know if you ever played on MW2 but a player does not have control to which lobby he is joining, you just search your desired gameplay mode and it looks for a lobby for you.
    Now if you think that is a legitimate reason to ban those players from playing other games then we are long ways apart.

  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    The links and quotes I had in my post was DIRECTLY from Steam website. But maybe you know better how they deal with things.

    The thing I find funny is that you lot defend the VAC banned players who have caught cheating, and I mean CAUGHT FOR CHEATING. Me as a Server Owner and long time Anticheat personel don't care if you have chteated in CS:GO, AAPG, AA3, AA2, Battlefield or whatever game. You have a cheater record.
    Obiviously you can argue that long time bans should not count and as I live with ACI standards and we live 3 years from the last ban and if you have 2 bans 5 years. But alot of Server Owners are with once a cheater always a cheater mentality. And you say that is bad way?

    In previous thread I have seen posts where there has been talk about misuing the history tool and I will give you it and I do not like it one bit. For those who do not know how to use the history tool they should not make decisions to ban people on false assumption. I will take all responsibility on all misuse of the history tool. Since there is not updated versions on the GUIDE's what to use and I do not see one coming any time soon.

    Do not defend cheaters, if they are banned they have used cheats.

    Again, VAC bans aren't always "cheat-related" in the way people usually define cheats. You get them for extreme edge-cases and I'm sure most admins wouldn't ban for those cases if they had proof about it. As it is Valve does not offer this kind of proof, they don't even tell you the game. Yes, it is a bad way because we live in the 21st century and people believe in reforming. How about you at least offer you admins a chance to allowed VAC banned players who have been clean since x years? Why does it need to be the on/off way? Do you really think your admins all know about VAC and how it works so they can make a good decision whether to use the feature or not? I highly doubt it, they just enable it because for them it provides extra protection and that is always good, right?

    I see two and a half issues with the history. First off people don't know how to use it e.g. banning for shared IPs. The half issue are people knowing how to use it and purposely abusing the name of ACI to justify bans on their website e.g. player getting banned for using my playername (I've been member in that clan for AA3 and they definitely know how to use the history tool). Second issue is the stalking I mentioned earlier that is not limited to ACI admins.

    I don't refer to people trying to use custom skins in a game as cheaters. They were stupid/naive, made a mistake but not everyone is familiar with that topic.
  • xtopherusxtopherus Posts: 71Player
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    You guys have issues with Badmins because you get banned for having a dirty history regardless of how that history came about.. I get banned and have a clean history.. do I get to complain now?

    Doba and I are in the same boat, I have been banned from countless number of servers because of someones perspective and there liability to comprehend some players actually have skill. That's why I use shadow play to record my game play, make a video of set game play, and then throw it in there face while laughing.

    People who pay for a server, can ban you for whatever reason and there is nothing you can do to stop it. So just make video's of your game play, thrown it in there face, then go play on another server and stop complaining like a bunch of females. Problem solved.
  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    You guys have issues with Badmins because you get banned for having a dirty history regardless of how that history came about.. I get banned and have a clean history.. do I get to complain now?

    Doba and I are in the same boat, I have been banned from countless number of servers because of someones perspective and there liability to comprehend some players actually have skill. That's why I use shadow play to record my game play, make a video of set game play, and then throw it in there face while laughing.

    People who pay for a server, can ban you for whatever reason and there is nothing you can do to stop it. So just make video's of your game play, thrown it in there face, then go play on another server and stop complaining like a bunch of females. Problem solved.

    I opened my steam broadcast to anybody who wants to watch i find it a better solution than shadowplay + its fun sometimes to get a couple of viewers watching you play live
  • TheTotsTheTots Posts: 2,279Player
    Ok guys, last warning. This is actually a good topic to discuss, but personal feelings and attacks are getting thrown around too much. We are all adults here, we can have a drama free actual discussion.

    There's no one good answer to cheating. That's why it still exists in every online game. It's all about how you mitigate the damage it can do and how you respond to it.

    For those in the "once a cheater, always a cheater" camp, you would be permabanning most game devs I know with that attitude. Many of us spent a lot of our youth "pushing the limits" of games and breaking things just for fun and to learn.

    I, personally, used to do RMT and work with multihacks on MMOs when I was in my late teens / early 20s. Should that mean I'm black listed from playing any online game ever again? Nah. I was a kid and did stupid stuff.

    As I grew up I turned that stupidity into something productive and made a career out of it. Keep in mind here that we're talking about cheating on a video game. Yes it sucks, yes you are lame if you do it, but we're not talking 1st degree murder.

    Lifetime sentences and punishments based off of shaky evidence (shared IPs, etc) seems like the punishment isn't fitting the crime.
    The game wasn't made exactly to my specifications, so I feel it's broken.

  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    TheTots wrote: »
    Ok guys, last warning. This is actually a good topic to discuss, but personal feelings and attacks are getting thrown around too much. We are all adults here, we can have a drama free actual discussion.

    There's no one good answer to cheating. That's why it still exists in every online game. It's all about how you mitigate the damage it can do and how you respond to it.

    For those in the "once a cheater, always a cheater" camp, you would be permabanning most game devs I know with that attitude. Many of us spent a lot of our youth "pushing the limits" of games and breaking things just for fun and to learn.

    I, personally, used to do RMT and work with multihacks on MMOs when I was in my late teens / early 20s. Should that mean I'm black listed from playing any online game ever again? Nah. I was a kid and did stupid stuff.

    As I grew up I turned that stupidity into something productive and made a career out of it. Keep in mind here that we're talking about cheating on a video game. Yes it sucks, yes you are lame if you do it, but we're not talking 1st degree murder.

    Lifetime sentences and punishments based off of shaky evidence (shared IPs, etc) seems like the punishment isn't fitting the crime.

    59296990.jpg

    had to reuse this one.
    i honestly doubt if nobody have ever played a game where they use cheatcodes or trainers, im talking about old games.
    if when i was young i played Age Of Empire and i used cheatcodes to get that awsome cars (cant remember the cheatcode itself) does that mean i need to be banned for life?
    i know its not a fair analogy for other cases but its just to show that the whole "once a cheater always a cheater" policy is quite ridiculous.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    Since you mention game devs with a "dark past", a lot of CS:GO pros are guilty of cheating as well. Back in CS 1.6 (maybe earlier, not 100% certain) they used visual assistance for demo reviews as there was no other proper tool.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    if when i was young i played Age Of Empire and i used cheatcodes to get that awsome cars (cant remember the cheatcode itself) does that mean i need to be banned for life?

    HOW DO YOU TURN THIS ON
  • [soldier][soldier] Posts: 143Player
    Pointing out once again here that a "lifetime sentence" as far as the ACI ban list is concerned is only for the account with the ban. Get a new account, and play on.

    For ACI membership purposes:
    1 ban - 3 years
    2 bans - 5 years
    3+ bans - ineligible

    What server owners want to do on their own servers is their own business. I have already listed the options.
  • =NiW=Phooey=NiW=Phooey Posts: 6Player
    [soldier] wrote: »
    Pointing out once again here that a "lifetime sentence" as far as the ACI ban list is concerned is only for the account with the ban. Get a new account, and play on.

    For ACI membership purposes:
    1 ban - 3 years
    2 bans - 5 years
    3+ bans - ineligible

    What server owners want to do on their own servers is their own business. I have already listed the options.

    Thank you Soldier
    205fatg.jpg

  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    [soldier] wrote: »
    Pointing out once again here that a "lifetime sentence" as far as the ACI ban list is concerned is only for the account with the ban. Get a new account, and play on.

    For ACI membership purposes:
    1 ban - 3 years
    2 bans - 5 years
    3+ bans - ineligible

    What server owners want to do on their own servers is their own business. I have already listed the options.

    I dont think people are trying to argue that they are not entitled to. I personally trying to argue that they are ruining the game by fastly judging people if they seem abit off or killed them too much.
    I played on a server a couple of days ago and was against some admins and after i killed them a few times ive been banned from the server. Again i honestly say they are entitled too. But they are ruining the game
  • -=312th=-Atrophied-=312th=-Atrophied Posts: 67Player
    TheTots wrote: »
    Ok guys, last warning. This is actually a good topic to discuss, but personal feelings and attacks are getting thrown around too much. We are all adults here, we can have a drama free actual discussion.

    There's no one good answer to cheating. That's why it still exists in every online game. It's all about how you mitigate the damage it can do and how you respond to it.

    For those in the "once a cheater, always a cheater" camp, you would be permabanning most game devs I know with that attitude. Many of us spent a lot of our youth "pushing the limits" of games and breaking things just for fun and to learn.

    I, personally, used to do RMT and work with multihacks on MMOs when I was in my late teens / early 20s. Should that mean I'm black listed from playing any online game ever again? Nah. I was a kid and did stupid stuff.

    As I grew up I turned that stupidity into something productive and made a career out of it. Keep in mind here that we're talking about cheating on a video game. Yes it sucks, yes you are lame if you do it, but we're not talking 1st degree murder.

    Lifetime sentences and punishments based off of shaky evidence (shared IPs, etc) seems like the punishment isn't fitting the crime.

    How many of those game dev's have VAC bans? How many of them have bans directly linked to their current player account from any openly-available source?

    Yes, everyone has probably used a "cheat code" in an old single-player game but that's not even close to the same thing. Using a cheat in a single player games just means that the game itself knows you are a cheater and let's you win.

    In PvP it is entirely different. You are deliberately using unfair advantages to play against live opponents and claim that it was your "skill" rather than some ill-gotten piece of code.

    Put simply, if you don't have a ban linked to your account then you get the same treatment as players that are cheating but haven't been caught yet: you get to play. If you do have a linked ban then there are several options: You play at the admin's discretion or you get banned by the admin because you were caught cheating.

    I'm all for fairness in regards to catching cheaters... I'd rather 100 guilty people go free than have one innocent person get wrongfully convicted.

    It's similar to the way an IRL background check works... Yeah, maybe you robbed a store 10 years ago and did 5 years behind bars. You served your time but that doesn't mean EVERY employer is going to be okay with hiring someone with that smear on their record regardless of how adamantly you claim to "not be that person anymore".

    As for bans placed by admins wrongfully using the tools that are available to them, that is on THEM, not the entirety of the ACI community.
  • K!Dz.applePIEK!Dz.applePIE Posts: 1,050Player
    i honestly doubt if nobody have ever played a game where they use cheatcodes or trainers, im talking about old games.
    if when i was young i played Age Of Empire and i used cheatcodes to get that awsome cars (cant remember the cheatcode itself) does that mean i need to be banned for life?
    i know its not a fair analogy for other cases but its just to show that the whole "once a cheater always a cheater" policy is quite ridiculous.

    Obviously we are talking about cheating in multiplayer games and not single player games in old times. But those games had already certain things coded into the game like "god mode" "endless ammo" etc.

    Our fight is mostly against players who do lack the fair game sense.

    I personally do not endorse permanent bans for 1st time offenders. Everyone can make a mistake and learn from that mistake. I see it differently for multiple time offenders though.

    A grace period sounds like a good option to discuss for the ACI Staff reading this thread. Also the possibility to distinguish between 1 time and multiple time offenders.

    What I do not agree is the point that admins shouldn't ban for cross games. IMO If a player cheated lets say 3 months ago on another online game, why should I trust him not to cheat on this game? Would you let your daughter walk to the school with a known sex offender alone in the hopes of rehabilitation?

    Actually I do not like to do this type of analogy with real world crimes and corresponding punishment systems cos there are plenty of servers (including the official ones) where those players can play without any problems. I as server owner prefer to keep offenders from other games out of my server and this opinion should be respected as I pay for the server at the end. I can understand that some might find it harsh or wouldn't agree with it and they are entitled to their opinion.

    I can give you one real world example. There was very young kid (11-12 years old) and we caught him cheese eating via video recording. Instead of banning him right away and cutting the cord, we tried to talk to him and make him realize what he is doing wrong. Yet we had little success with him cos without cheets he was not getting the attention that he was hoping to get. I am giving you this example cos on contrary belief that admins are heartless beings, many of us hope for a better gaming environment. But we also have to draw a line. You can call it stupidity and being immature for a little kid but if you passed a certain age, you should live with the consequences of your decision for downloading third party software that helps you win unfairly.

    So I also agree with the assessment, that instead blaming admins or A/C tools, communities etc. We should first blame the ones who actually cheated in the first place. And those players should make the effort to prove they are now rehabilitated and not other way around. At least when it comes to gaming on a certain private server that enforces multiple MBLs

    cheers,
    applepie
  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    TheTots wrote: »
    Ok guys, last warning. This is actually a good topic to discuss, but personal feelings and attacks are getting thrown around too much. We are all adults here, we can have a drama free actual discussion.

    There's no one good answer to cheating. That's why it still exists in every online game. It's all about how you mitigate the damage it can do and how you respond to it.

    For those in the "once a cheater, always a cheater" camp, you would be permabanning most game devs I know with that attitude. Many of us spent a lot of our youth "pushing the limits" of games and breaking things just for fun and to learn.

    I, personally, used to do RMT and work with multihacks on MMOs when I was in my late teens / early 20s. Should that mean I'm black listed from playing any online game ever again? Nah. I was a kid and did stupid stuff.

    As I grew up I turned that stupidity into something productive and made a career out of it. Keep in mind here that we're talking about cheating on a video game. Yes it sucks, yes you are lame if you do it, but we're not talking 1st degree murder.

    Lifetime sentences and punishments based off of shaky evidence (shared IPs, etc) seems like the punishment isn't fitting the crime.

    How many of those game dev's have VAC bans? How many of them have bans directly linked to their current player account from any openly-available source?

    Yes, everyone has probably used a "cheat code" in an old single-player game but that's not even close to the same thing. Using a cheat in a single player games just means that the game itself knows you are a cheater and let's you win.

    In PvP it is entirely different. You are deliberately using unfair advantages to play against live opponents and claim that it was your "skill" rather than some ill-gotten piece of code.

    Put simply, if you don't have a ban linked to your account then you get the same treatment as players that are cheating but haven't been caught yet: you get to play. If you do have a linked ban then there are several options: You play at the admin's discretion or you get banned by the admin because you were caught cheating.

    I'm all for fairness in regards to catching cheaters... I'd rather 100 guilty people go free than have one innocent person get wrongfully convicted.

    It's similar to the way an IRL background check works... Yeah, maybe you robbed a store 10 years ago and did 5 years behind bars. You served your time but that doesn't mean EVERY employer is going to be okay with hiring someone with that smear on their record regardless of how adamantly you claim to "not be that person anymore".

    As for bans placed by admins wrongfully using the tools that are available to them, that is on THEM, not the entirety of the ACI community.

    I agree with you. And the point was that you can get VAC not in PvP games.
    And that was the main issue in this discussion. If you want some reference you can read some of my replies in this topic it will give you a goos idea on what i am talking about
  • [soldier][soldier] Posts: 143Player
    As for bans placed by admins wrongfully using the tools that are available to them, that is on THEM, not the entirety of the ACI community.

    And here is the part where I remind ACI members that:

    1. We offer background classes that teach you how to use the tool in depth. Admittedly they are very difficult and intensive, so we also...

    2. Offer background checks performed by BG Certified members, available to every member clan.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    [soldier] wrote: »
    Pointing out once again here that a "lifetime sentence" as far as the ACI ban list is concerned is only for the account with the ban. Get a new account, and play on.

    For ACI membership purposes:
    1 ban - 3 years
    2 bans - 5 years
    3+ bans - ineligible

    What server owners want to do on their own servers is their own business. I have already listed the options.

    I dont think people are trying to argue that they are not entitled to. I personally trying to argue that they are ruining the game by fastly judging people if they seem abit off or killed them too much.
    I played on a server a couple of days ago and was against some admins and after i killed them a few times ive been banned from the server. Again i honestly say they are entitled too. But they are ruining the game

    I think this is not even necessarily their fault, they are just lacking education about cheats. Out of the ~20 bans I received only 1 admin provided a solid suspicion. It obviously has nothing to do with ACI but giving clueless people even more tools just seems like a bad deal to me leading to even more false bans. What they really need at this point is someone teaching them a thing or two about cheats, whenever I tried doing things like that I got that "how do you know so much about cheats?" question but a few people thought it's interesting. I will never understand that mentality of just banning people without any solid proof, I'd always feel like a looser having to admit someone is better and I'm not even trying to improve myself. There are admins that are actually taking their time in spectator trying to make objective judgements but the majority of my experiences were admins banning after getting shot a few times.
  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    edited June 2016
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    [soldier] wrote: »
    Pointing out once again here that a "lifetime sentence" as far as the ACI ban list is concerned is only for the account with the ban. Get a new account, and play on.

    For ACI membership purposes:
    1 ban - 3 years
    2 bans - 5 years
    3+ bans - ineligible

    What server owners want to do on their own servers is their own business. I have already listed the options.

    I dont think people are trying to argue that they are not entitled to. I personally trying to argue that they are ruining the game by fastly judging people if they seem abit off or killed them too much.
    I played on a server a couple of days ago and was against some admins and after i killed them a few times ive been banned from the server. Again i honestly say they are entitled too. But they are ruining the game

    I think this is not even necessarily their fault, they are just lacking education about cheats. Out of the ~20 bans I received only 1 admin provided a solid suspicion. It obviously has nothing to do with ACI but giving clueless people even more tools just seems like a bad deal to me leading to even more false bans. What they really need at this point is someone teaching them a thing or two about cheats, whenever I tried doing things like that I got that "how do you know so much about cheats?" question but a few people thought it's interesting. I will never understand that mentality of just banning people without any solid proof, I'd always feel like a looser having to admit someone is better and I'm not even trying to improve myself. There are admins that are actually taking their time in spectator trying to make objective judgements but the majority of my experiences were admins banning after getting shot a few times.

    Yep we have to mention here that there a re alot of fair admins which really look into cases and are not fast to judge.
    As for your point about ACI i have said many times already that you are correct that its mostly poor education but i dont view it as ACI staff responsibility to educate those admins.
    ACI have lots of guides and how-to, the admins themselves are the ones that are not taking the time to educate themselves

    Edit: i must go to sleep now but i do enjoy this discussion and would like to thank tots for keeping it clean. Hopefully this thread will remain clean and maybe effect the way admins abuse (altought it is therye privilige) the power that they have.
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    edited June 2016
    Edit: i must go to sleep now but i do enjoy this discussion and would like to thank tots for keeping it clean. Hopefully this thread will remain clean and maybe effect the way admins abuse (altought it is therye privilige) the power that they have.

    VIP update tomorrow buddy, people will forget the thread for at least a few hours :lol:

    It's been eye opening, intriguing and something new to talk about.. so far. Lets hope we all take on board whats being said here and use it to better ourselves as players and admins, not to discriminate and better educated on peoples feelings and views when making decisions. Were all adults, lets continue now to act like that :)

    Thanks for letting this discussion happen Tots, has to be said :+1:

    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    [soldier] wrote: »
    Pointing out once again here that a "lifetime sentence" as far as the ACI ban list is concerned is only for the account with the ban. Get a new account, and play on.

    For ACI membership purposes:
    1 ban - 3 years
    2 bans - 5 years
    3+ bans - ineligible

    What server owners want to do on their own servers is their own business. I have already listed the options.

    I dont think people are trying to argue that they are not entitled to. I personally trying to argue that they are ruining the game by fastly judging people if they seem abit off or killed them too much.
    I played on a server a couple of days ago and was against some admins and after i killed them a few times ive been banned from the server. Again i honestly say they are entitled too. But they are ruining the game

    I think this is not even necessarily their fault, they are just lacking education about cheats. Out of the ~20 bans I received only 1 admin provided a solid suspicion. It obviously has nothing to do with ACI but giving clueless people even more tools just seems like a bad deal to me leading to even more false bans. What they really need at this point is someone teaching them a thing or two about cheats, whenever I tried doing things like that I got that "how do you know so much about cheats?" question but a few people thought it's interesting. I will never understand that mentality of just banning people without any solid proof, I'd always feel like a looser having to admit someone is better and I'm not even trying to improve myself. There are admins that are actually taking their time in spectator trying to make objective judgements but the majority of my experiences were admins banning after getting shot a few times.

    Yep we have to mention here that there a re alot of fair admins which really look into cases and are not fast to judge.
    As for your point about ACI i have said many times already that you are correct that its mostly poor education but i dont view it as ACI staff responsibility to educate those admins.
    ACI have lots of guides and how-to, the admins themselves are the ones that are not taking the time to educate themselves

    Well, guess I didn't have any luck with admins then. Usually just got banned silently and I always kept an eye on spectator. No, I didn't say it's on ACI either. I would however if I'm trying to improve a community by offering tools to fight cheaters start with educating people about cheats. I know it's not gonna happen but you can't really expect having people with barely any knowledge about what's possible in the game and what's possible using cheats make good use of the tools provided. Again, you can always argue it's not on the tool provider but I choose to blame both parties as explained in my earlier comparison with WoT and XVM. People will also argue that others agree with their administration and enjoy playing their server which is also true but the majority prefers to not get killed over and over again by a good player. Whether cheater or not, they don't care, they want to enjoy their time playing and there is nothing wrong with it. What's wrong however is denying those issues are existing or disregarding them because it only affects a minority.
  • -=312th=-Atrophied-=312th=-Atrophied Posts: 67Player
    TheTots wrote: »
    Ok guys, last warning. This is actually a good topic to discuss, but personal feelings and attacks are getting thrown around too much. We are all adults here, we can have a drama free actual discussion.

    There's no one good answer to cheating. That's why it still exists in every online game. It's all about how you mitigate the damage it can do and how you respond to it.

    For those in the "once a cheater, always a cheater" camp, you would be permabanning most game devs I know with that attitude. Many of us spent a lot of our youth "pushing the limits" of games and breaking things just for fun and to learn.

    I, personally, used to do RMT and work with multihacks on MMOs when I was in my late teens / early 20s. Should that mean I'm black listed from playing any online game ever again? Nah. I was a kid and did stupid stuff.

    As I grew up I turned that stupidity into something productive and made a career out of it. Keep in mind here that we're talking about cheating on a video game. Yes it sucks, yes you are lame if you do it, but we're not talking 1st degree murder.

    Lifetime sentences and punishments based off of shaky evidence (shared IPs, etc) seems like the punishment isn't fitting the crime.

    How many of those game dev's have VAC bans? How many of them have bans directly linked to their current player account from any openly-available source?

    Yes, everyone has probably used a "cheat code" in an old single-player game but that's not even close to the same thing. Using a cheat in a single player games just means that the game itself knows you are a cheater and let's you win.

    In PvP it is entirely different. You are deliberately using unfair advantages to play against live opponents and claim that it was your "skill" rather than some ill-gotten piece of code.

    Put simply, if you don't have a ban linked to your account then you get the same treatment as players that are cheating but haven't been caught yet: you get to play. If you do have a linked ban then there are several options: You play at the admin's discretion or you get banned by the admin because you were caught cheating.

    I'm all for fairness in regards to catching cheaters... I'd rather 100 guilty people go free than have one innocent person get wrongfully convicted.

    It's similar to the way an IRL background check works... Yeah, maybe you robbed a store 10 years ago and did 5 years behind bars. You served your time but that doesn't mean EVERY employer is going to be okay with hiring someone with that smear on their record regardless of how adamantly you claim to "not be that person anymore".

    As for bans placed by admins wrongfully using the tools that are available to them, that is on THEM, not the entirety of the ACI community.

    I agree with you. And the point was that you can get VAC not in PvP games.
    And that was the main issue in this discussion. If you want some reference you can read some of my replies in this topic it will give you a goos idea on what i am talking about

    I understand what your point is. The problem is that you are mixing the details of the point. Yes, you can get VAC bans for non-pvp games. That's at the discretion of the game developer. Since they don't tell us what your VAC ban was for you get lumped in with others who got their VAC ban for cheating in a PvP game. Unfortunately, giving someone the benefit of the doubt comes with inherent risks... Basically, the entirety of what you should take away from what I said is don't cheat and you don't have to defend having cheated.
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