4-5s Fuse Nade

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  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited May 2015
    Set nades? I'm not familiar with the term.

    Really? wow
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • Bam4DBam4D Posts: 976Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Bam4D wrote: »
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    Bam4D..are you reading what's being discussed here? .. how is eliminating the nade cook or making the fuse shorter and making the blast radius smaller an attempt at making the game more pew pew? When clearly the intent is the complete opposite!

    All i'm reading is weakness, cooked nades have been around since the start of AA and now a collection of no tries wants to change the formula because they can't reach a level of NADE awareness and dodging.

    Hey guess what, sometimes you lose at gaming... no need to complain how it happened ..

    Pick your chin up, tissue your eyes and be ARMY STRONG & Move Along.

    You do realize that the people you are saying can't adapt or are losing are the best players in the game, right?

    The BEST can't overcome adversity and not create 97 pages of whining it's not fair when they get bushwhacked or the CHEF cooks his special Nade Soup?

    It's about being a Team! not a player, guess what, being in a team will help get you past those crazy BUSHES or a pick up after tasting someones SWEET COOKING :)


    And FYI the guy deep in the BUSH can't see out just as bad as you can't see in... food for thought.

    _________________________

    ********Bam4D********

    BE ALL (THAT) YOU CAN BE!

    ________Army 1980_________


  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    and nothing to read in your posts on the topic. Very painful. Almost Badabing painful.

    Almost as painful as you thinking that bushes are super tactical, grenades need a random fuse else are currently fine and set/tac nades are exploits haha.



    You forgot about the strength of your throwing arm varying with every throw.
  • SOPMODSOPMOD Posts: 230Player
    SOPMOD wrote: »
    Switching from cooking to instant throws will make alot of throws impossible on the current maps, making it easier for defense to dig in and hold a position.

    I say implement the audio cue's first and see from there, it makes more sense for AA.

    It means that, instead of a guaranteed kill, you need somebody in position to take the shot when the displaced enemy has to run away. Ideally that wouldn't be the person throwing the nade since that would probably entail a certain degree of unnecessary exposure. It's a mechanism to encourage more teamwork.

    Another approach would be to coordinate grenades: one teammate throws to displace, another throws to the escape route.

    Alternatively, with an appropriate nade fuse, you can throw high into the air so that it explodes when it comes back down. Currently, the fuse is long enough that that can't happen; those two changes would probably have to go hand in hand. Think of throwing fogs high and getting airbursts without cooking for a sense of the mechanics.


    All that said, yeah, with 4-second fuse and no cooking some of the airburst throws wouldn't work.
    I don't disagree and teamwork is great. It could work for comp, but for pubbing it would be very rare to be able to coordinate a nade with a teammate.
    You can still kill with them if you throw it more into the air to come down. People acting like it would make grenades useless when it wouldn't. You just have to throw them properly.
    Throwing them more in the air requires more distance, more distance = more exposure. Unless you're behind something using a set nade throw. Set nades from behind cover could become the only usefull nades. :/

    Obivously i'm not talking about all situations but it will affect the current maps, that's what worries me.
    cooking nades is part of this franchise.
    -
    if you feel grenades are being used unskillfully, speak up and post about which part of which map is having this issue. i've said many times, the problem is usually fixed with better map design. most maps are either too small, or too congested and cramped, or too opportunistic.
    -
    it surely is not an issue with the ability to cook a nade. proof? even if you throw an uncooked nade most of those spots are going to suffer from the same problem.
    -
    solution? fix maps, give better audio cues. and i'd say a 10% reduction in radius is due.
    -
    and yeah i want bigger maps - big enough to accommodate the 6v6 and 12v12, and that means give enough lanes and play space to avoid congestion or predictability. but also, you don't want every square inch of a "larger" map filled with stuff to the point where its all still a bunch of ways to get close without being seen and then frag each other from out of sight behind cover.
    -
    you need to find that map design balance that works with the game's weapons ...and makes fun and memorable missions. i know for sure doors can help. terrain instead of more buildings can help. further distance between common areas can certainly help. stuff like that would force a fragger to move out into dangerous terrain to deploy that grenade, which would still be possible with the help of a teammate(s) to give them cover. that's mostly how it was done in aa2.

    Anyhow, I'm inclined to agree with shhfiftyfive that map design affects this alot and that it's a part of the AA franchise. Keeping cooking and adding audio cue's is a better first step in trying to change nades.

    Please don't reply with the same old "AA2 old people want an AA2 clone". :) Just because it's more like AA2 doesn't mean it's not a good solution. Look at what a suggestion would bring rather than where it comes from.
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited May 2015
    Grenade damage curves reduced – the lethal radius is reduced and damage drops off very sharply past this point
    Grenade bounce sound has proper volume and attenuation now

    Lets put this thread to rest till we try this out.
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    Grenade damage curves reduced – the lethal radius is reduced and damage drops off very sharply past this point
    Grenade bounce sound has proper volume and attenuation now

    Lets put this thread to rest till we try this out.

    Nah, let's continue to blow it out of proportion, it's a real blast talking about grenade fuses, cooking and skillgaps, we should thrash it out until our heads explode :mrgreen:


  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited May 2015
    You want to talk about skillgaps??? I will gladly create a thread about how huge the skill gap is in this game is. I'll rank the skills level from 1-10 maybe even more. You'll have your skill level 2 guys calling bs no way you can be that good on the skill level 10's and try to get the other team to kill sometimes that person might even get tked. Its a joke I've been called out for BS many times and then get tked by a teammate because he thinks its true when I am just simply better than they are and I've seen it happen to many many competition players. Some people in this game do .c-h-e-a-t. however. But the skill level 10's know who these people are and know when they run into someone like this.
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited May 2015
    Grenade damage curves reduced – the lethal radius is reduced and damage drops off very sharply past this point
    Grenade bounce sound has proper volume and attenuation now

    Lets put this thread to rest till we try this out.

    Nah, let's continue to blow it out of proportion, it's a real blast talking about grenade fuses, cooking and skillgaps, we should thrash it out until our heads explode :mrgreen:


    Know whats really a blast? checking your stats and being able to tell that you are a huge c-a-m-p-e-r who doesn't have a ounce of teamwork/teamplay in his bones. How can someone average a 2.21 Kill death ratio when they have 1.09 match win ratio and a 1.04 round win ratio is mind boggling horrible.


    You were probably a reconnector in AA2. 100%
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    edited May 2015
    Grenade damage curves reduced – the lethal radius is reduced and damage drops off very sharply past this point
    Grenade bounce sound has proper volume and attenuation now

    Lets put this thread to rest till we try this out.

    Nah, let's continue to blow it out of proportion, it's a real blast talking about grenade fuses, cooking and skillgaps, we should thrash it out until our heads explode :mrgreen:


    Know whats really a blast? checking your stats and being able to tell that you are a huge c-a-m-p-e-r who doesn't have a ounce of teamwork/teamplay in his bones. How can someone average a 2.21 Kill death ratio when they have 1.09 match win ratio and a 1.04 round win ratio is mind boggling horrible.


    You were probably a reconnect in AA2.

    You got me.. but maybe I like to join the losing team when I play? because I like to play against the stackers people talk about all the time. When you don't play competaively in leagues and want a challenge I play against the better team on purpose, even if we end up losing I know I tried to help :mrgreen:

    I would say I have lots of joy against comp players, guys with clan tags on, you know the ones? them kinda people who tend to have a god awful crappy attitude toward anyone.. which might explain my higher F/R to low Match/round win ratio, but yes I do camp when I need to, even in bushes, but I like to call it a timing and awareness tactic rather than a burden on the game or exploit. Whatever the need calls for.

    I sadly wouldn't know much about AA2, or this reconnect you speak of.. since Ive only played that game about 10 times in total, 4 of which were on AA2.5 :lol:

    Thanks for checkin me out, but I'm not sure how me playing on words (to do with grenades and boom boom) came across like I was insulting you to be deserved of that reply? you mad bro?


  • =R*C=raVe=R*C=raVe Posts: 8Player
    Frag radius changed in Opt-in! Sounds like the devs are all ears!
  • You want to talk about skillgaps??? I will gladly create a thread about how huge the skill gap is in this game is. I'll rank the skills level from 1-10 maybe even more. You'll have your skill level 2 guys calling bs no way you can be that good on the skill level 10's and try to get the other team to kill sometimes that person might even get tked. Its a joke I've been called out for BS many times and then get tked by a teammate because he thinks its true when I am just simply better than they are and I've seen it happen to many many competition players. Some people in this game do .c-h-e-a-t. however. But the skill level 10's know who these people are and know when they run into someone like this.

    I skipped to page 9 and read this, plez mr, comp player/s tell me the ranks from lvl 1-10, of all the players in this game. also I want YOU TO KNOW COLTS. not only "comp" players get accused of cheating and team killed by "haters", even decent players that don't even know what comp is get accused of cheating and sometimes tked.

    p.s. Nades are OP in my opinion, I would go as Far as to say that most likely 1/3 of my kills in AA if not more, are from nades, and vice versa for my deaths.
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    You want to talk about skillgaps??? I will gladly create a thread about how huge the skill gap is in this game is. I'll rank the skills level from 1-10 maybe even more. You'll have your skill level 2 guys calling bs no way you can be that good on the skill level 10's and try to get the other team to kill sometimes that person might even get tked. Its a joke I've been called out for BS many times and then get tked by a teammate because he thinks its true when I am just simply better than they are and I've seen it happen to many many competition players. Some people in this game do .c-h-e-a-t. however. But the skill level 10's know who these people are and know when they run into someone like this.

    I skipped to page 9 and read this, plez mr, comp player/s tell me the ranks from lvl 1-10, of all the players in this game. also I want YOU TO KNOW COLTS. not only "comp" players get accused of cheating and team killed by "haters", even decent players that don't even know what comp is get accused of cheating and sometimes tked.

    p.s. Nades are OP in my opinion, I would go as Far as to say that most likely 1/3 of my kills in AA if not more, are from nades, and vice versa for my deaths.

    Never said just competition players get accused but ok. What ever floats your boat.
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • frankoffrankof Posts: 1,048Moderator
    No need to go personal, so keep that down
  • -[iG]-Leketiskis-[iG]-Leketiskis Posts: 127Player
    I enjoy nades and cooking them. To real life nades that you can see in documentaries (never had a real one in my hand), they explode with way less damage, but I personally like it compared to other games, when nades is almost never a kill. Cooking nades is one of the things that i enjoy a lot. i would agree with reducing damage by very little, but everything else is just perfect.
  • ProceduralPolyMathProceduralPolyMath Posts: 96Player
    edited May 2015
    The random fuse time is arguable only because we don't have a timer, so it's consistency is balanced by the player having to have a psychological notion of the grenade timer to not kill himself. Adding a short random fuse variance though would be ok given that maybe many people gamble with the fuse more than they would naturally do. So if they wanted to go all the way or even past that you would be rising the price of that, that's all. Maybe even allow someone to throw it back, though that normally doesn't go well, but again,comes at a price.

    I always liked AA because things have a price. Unlike say CoD where you can jump and shoot with your sniper aiming down the sight, you press a button and off goes a grenade, etc...
    Feels to me there's people that want to bring the price variation and the risk to a minimum. It's like I'm in a forum with Wall Street people getting money from the Fed, claiming for artificial consistency for profit.

    Too much focus on mechanistic wins and the role of a single player for chest pumping.

    As for the damage and blast radius, I'll say the same I said about the M24 and would defend for all mechanics fine tuning. It should be tuned with a full spectrum field of testing. Right now that field is mostly enclosed narrow facilities.

    I won't cite the definition again, hbk314...
    From Wikipedia, emphasis mine:
    In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

    From [Dev]TheTots:
    I'll just clear this up. We don't consider set nades an exploit. Where we see one we feel is unfair, we remove it. Plenty are left in on purpose. They are not exploits.

    If a developer says something isn't a game exploit, it, by definition, is not an exploit.

    The developer said the openings where there for a reason, which is pretty obvious from a player POV. They want to have venues to counter strong positions. Did I ever said that holes in the map are exploits? No.

    He did not address though the off-line training of grenades and the use of such opportunities in a mechanistic way.
    I'm not contesting opening in the map or the opportunity to frag a "safe" position. I'm contesting the being able to frag a safe position over and over in a way to it can no longer be considered safe due to artificial consistency.
    I don't see where skill is involved here at any level of the process of off-line training of nades when its foundation are perfect equal throws. Only thing you have to do is find the position and the aiming spot and then repeat. The search for the coordinates it's a brute force test.

    The only skill you can claim with nades is have a good notion of the arc and their fuse time and be use those to predict the path of a nade and explosion time in any situation, even unexpected or new ones. That's an actual skill you develop over time.
    The proposed random inserts would not brake that experience build, they would only break the consistency of static environments, which have nothing to do with second nature, but recipes: stand in point, point at a texture and the grenade will always go the same exact arc. No skill, just following a recipe that even a level 5 can do if you show him the youtube video.
    If the thing you're trying to attain is a window such small randomness would have marginal effect.

    Almost as painful as you thinking that bushes are super tactical, grenades need a random fuse else are currently fine and set/tac nades are exploits haha.
    Never said that about bushes, or random fuse. People sure like to paint what others say around here. Install Unreal Tournament 4 Alpha and be the man, since you want it so much. No bushes there and all the consistency you love, believe me. Co-worker is former world champ that provides feedback and is in New York at the moment in a tournament, he really hates randomness. Go for it.
    Next he's going to suggest an attribute when you register that decides what your parents are like to decide your players genes. Father was a baseball player. Grenade throwing distance +2 yards.
    You unlocked another post in your post count, congrats.
    Can you come back when you have something constructive to add instead of repeatedly stating the same "point" that's already been refuted several times?

    I've been constructive and presenting my arguments. You're the one quoting my entire posts, adding one liners and parroting "It's not an exploit". Just because you don't agree with what I say, doesn't make it non-constructive.
    and yeah i want bigger maps - big enough to accommodate the 6v6 and 12v12, and that means give enough lanes and play space to avoid congestion or predictability. but also, you don't want every square inch of a "larger" map filled with stuff to the point where its all still a bunch of ways to get close without being seen and then frag each other from out of sight behind cover.
    -
    you need to find that map design balance that works with the game's weapons ...and makes fun and memorable missions. i know for sure doors can help. terrain instead of more buildings can help. further distance between common areas can certainly help. stuff like that would force a fragger to move out into dangerous terrain to deploy that grenade, which would still be possible with the help of a teammate(s) to give them cover. that's mostly how it was done in aa2.

    Cmon shhfiftyfive, think of the CoD kids without patience, you can't have bigger maps... it's unskillful, especially if you can hide and kill them while they run and gun. Don't do it, man!

    Agreed on the Maps. Border is a nice example where there's many levels of fight. The houses and ruins with different densities along the map but they are generally sparse, so there's cover but the distance between them doesn't make it easy. And many times there very close encounters inside those houses especially on the objective. Plus there's a sense of freedom, you don't have discreet lanes even though in my head I divide the hills like lanes.


    Cheers

  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited May 2015
    So lets me get this straight your upset because people are able to go into a server in warmup mode and practice nades...But those same people would figure out these same nades without warmup just by playing. You think it takes no skill to do these nades but yet you think an easy cook and blow in the air nade takes skill. It all boils down to map design.
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    I won't cite the definition again, hbk314...
    From Wikipedia, emphasis mine:
    In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

    From [Dev]TheTots:
    I'll just clear this up. We don't consider set nades an exploit. Where we see one we feel is unfair, we remove it. Plenty are left in on purpose. They are not exploits.

    If a developer says something isn't a game exploit, it, by definition, is not an exploit.

    The developer said the openings where there for a reason, which is pretty obvious from a player POV. They want to have venues to counter strong positions. Did I ever said that holes in the map are exploits? No.

    He did not address though the off-line training of grenades and the use of such opportunities in a mechanistic way.

    That's exactly what a "set nade" is. It's a throw that takes place from a preset location to a preset destination. They're known for taking practice and a strong understanding of the map.

    Other games have sites like operationl2p.com that collect the best set nades and set smokes and share them. Some of those require a very high degree of accuracy and even consistency in how the canister bounces.
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    "But, BC, Those take no skill!!!"
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



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