If anyone cares

FYI the UGC still does not update maps properly and at times not at all . I just thought I would mention it .
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Comments

  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,189Player
    I had a message off Delton from -SD- saying my UMM wouldnt load (map crashes) on his server, could this be related to the problem your describing?

    I didn't know what to tell him and last I recall we dont have to update (rebuild) UMMs anymore after game updates :(
    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • -SD-DELTON-ACI--SD-DELTON-ACI- Posts: 1,441Player
    edited February 2016
    Uni I deleted your map from server and uploaded it again its working now.
    It did take along time to join and kicked me first time but when I re-joined it was ok, can you join server
    and try it yourself.
    gKQ6BB2.png
  • -Flops--Flops- Posts: 354Player
    There is a lot of stuff on UMM side of the game that needs repair , i would not hold your breath though . gotta fix IH again first lol
  • -=}WoLvErInE{=--=}WoLvErInE{=- Posts: 1,121Beta Tester
    Guys please bug these issues. The more they get bugged the better.
  • =U^S=_Mason=U^S=_Mason Posts: 167Beta Tester
    Can we get a little more information besides, it doesn't work?
    "9 people make up over 50% of all of the posts on this forums.
    The VAST majority of our players just play."
  • (Beer_me)lobo(Beer_me)lobo Posts: 645Player
    it seems some maps update and others dont so its hard to be more specific, as to what the actually problem is , might be steam based ,could be server , or could be metadata , since its a random bug its hard to pinpoint but ive seen it as well on the umm server ,we run , certain maps update on server without problems others dont , we tend to delete the acf file server side and the server re acquires all the maps , a pain when theres 60 + maps
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    I don't believe (yet, anyway) that it's a random bug. I think it has to do with timing and sequence of events...IE who does what when.

    However, I have also noticed some REALLY weird stuff with Steam, like sudden full updates of your entire subscribed list. (This happened to me twice...9.6GB all at once!!)

    I agree there's a lot still wonky. The only thing we can do is not discount ANY info till we find the right piece of the puzzle!
    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    ...and about the thread title...I know for a FACT there's a lot of people who care about this working properly...
    :)
    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • (Beer_Me)Roach(Beer_Me)Roach Posts: 249Player
    edited February 2016
    To be specific, and I think I did explain this to you Mason , we talked extensively about it.
    It seems that if the server is empty it seems to update maps in a very short time (but still there are some cases where it will not update at all) I think we tested this as an example it was your map "Worksite"
    However if your server is being used it seems to take a very longtime to update a map . It will go into wamup at the beginning of each match and stay in warmup for the 10 minutes that it tries to update and then the match will start , then it will do the same thing at the beginning of each match sometimes for hours and never get the map.
    I have found that if I stop the server and delete the .acf file that is in the workshop folder and then restart the server , it will aquire all of the maps 88 of them , on the first warmup and then everything is fine until the next time a map gets republished.
    This is not the same for maps that are put onto the server for the first time by placing the metadata file into the usermade map folder and rotating the map it gets the map very handily. So there is a difference between a new map and a map that has been republished while it is already running on the server .
    I don't know how I can be more specific , again I'm sure you and I have discussed it at length, as for the bug report I have tried this thing a million times and still cannot get it to work, I went over it for a half hour the other nite with Wolverines instruction and it just will not work for me. So I rely on speaking to you guys who are in beta and any Devs that are still talking to me! LOL

    Thanks guys that's all I know

    Additional info: I have noticed that on the client side , if you close your game and then restart the game it will auto update any map that has been republished since the last time you started your game.
    I'm not sure if that's relevant but it seems that it might be helpful info.
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    ...and about the thread title...I know for a FACT there's a lot of people who care about this working properly...
    :)
    Of course there are a lot of people who care but the thread title was meant to point out the level of frustration , due to these issues , everyday this goes on a little piece of the playerbase suffers and at some point some people will decide its just not worth it.
    My only intention is to try and point out that I believe this stuff should be a priority.
  • -Flops--Flops- Posts: 354Player
    edited February 2016
    i completely understand this thread title , i made a thread about the shoothouse and how colorblind people suffer in this area and a small fix would be great , also did a bug report , i got a reply saying we will look into it on the forums and never heard a thing again . so i just give up on the shoot house now . A huge part of this game i would enjoy is totally useless to me and others

    edit : I stand corrected it seems the color issue was fixed my bad i havent checked it yet but hopefully .
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    Guys....it takes longer than you think to work stuff through the process. From what I can see, there's goals and priorities, but there's definitely a lot more going on behind the scenes. Think of it this way....a Dev comes to work each week and digs into a task list, and each bug report (or request or whatever) must go through a process to decide if that Dev should stop what he's doing, or put the issue on a list for when he gets to it.

    Remember, other games have a LOT bigger budget and team.

    I don't think I'm saying anything out of line as a Beta Tester to tell you that these guys are working very hard to get stuff out to the public! What do you do when you can't reproduce the problem? It's not as easy as some believe to fix this stuff!

    I also think there's some serious issues with UGC and Steam from what I can see...

    Every one of us shares the frustrations...Devs, Betas and Players. It is what it is. We just have to keep plugging away at it.

    Even with all the bugs, I've been having a great time playing with you all. :)
    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • -Flops--Flops- Posts: 354Player
    There is an old saying Keebler , " It doesnt take much to stay in touch" . I miss the old days of Sitreps from the Devs weekly , getting honest and on time answers to the community , i think thats what people are really asking for . If the Devs are doing all this work and fixing all this stuff whats the harm in letting the community know the direction and progress each week ? ,Two big examples of this are the UGC and UMM sounds , These issues have been around for some time now and require immediate attention and the community constantly saying so seems to be falling on deaf ears , You should not have to be a Dev or a beta tester to get answers considering its the community who puts so much time and effort into this game.
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,189Player
    You think its bad now, you should have seen the forums in the AA3 days. it was like a baron wasteland. We were lucky to hear anything for up to 6 MONTHS. We actually get more interaction from devs now then I've ever seen in all the years of posting on the ever changing AA boards.

    Could it be more, sure.. some sort of roadmap is commonplace these days, it's not like there are thousands of people posting here who's element of surprise would all be wrecked by knowing a little more of whats going on behind the scenes.

    Out of all the interactions, I miss the podcasts, they were a good source of info of planned features and general dev [TOS Violation] chat, I thought they were great.
    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • (Beer_Me)Roach(Beer_Me)Roach Posts: 249Player
    edited February 2016
    Reproducing the problem is very simple , get some people together and join a server , republish a map while they are playing and you will easily reproduce the problem. It needs to be done when a server is being used and then it needs to be done again when the server is empty , in most cases you will see that the maps will update when the server is empty but not when its being used .
    If you like join us anytime you like and I will be glad to go thru the process so you can see what happens .
    I have been thru the process several time with Mason , so reproducing the problem is simple.
    I also believe that the problem lies within the interface with Steam and the way the maps update to a server rather than the way they do to a client, but further than that I have no knowledge of code etc...

    One key thing that I see is that a client will update a map efficiently if you simply close the game launcher and re-open it.
    A server is different in such that we are trying accomplish the update without restarting the server (On the fly ,so to speak).
    Another fault is this, even if the server did update it would still require anyone who is already in the server to leave and close their game and re-open it to force the update on the client side , so in a sense the problem is two fold.
    Try to understand we are posting this to try and raise awareness and possibly offer some help , we surely are not here to antagonize anyone or cause discontent. we just want it fixed and we are ready and willing to do anything we can to help.
  • =U^S=_Mason=U^S=_Mason Posts: 167Beta Tester
    It should be pointed out that the UGC system on Steams end was never intended to be used the way ld's are using it. Meaning, republishing maps everytime a small change is made to it, republishing every week etc. will likely break the system.
    "9 people make up over 50% of all of the posts on this forums.
    The VAST majority of our players just play."
  • (Beer_Me)Roach(Beer_Me)Roach Posts: 249Player
    edited February 2016
    Maybe I'm
    It should be pointed out that the UGC system on Steams end was never intended to be used the way ld's are using it. Meaning, republishing maps everytime a small change is made to it, republishing every week etc. will likely break the system.

    Well I'm no expert but if the system cannot handle an update at least once a week than maybe the system is the problem.
    Either the system works or it doesn't the frequency of the updates should not be a factor.
    Look if we are going to be honest then lets just be honest the system doesn't work , it makes no difference why , or who's fault it is , it just doesn't work.
    Lets stop BS'ing everyone and either fix it or let it go. It really makes no difference to any of us why it does'nt work , we just want it to work , if its not going to work than lets face facts we need to handle map updates manually , and everyone will stop relying on a system that does not work and we will handle it manually and everyone will be better off using an idea that we know will work , even if it is inconvenient at least we won't have down time on our servers.
    And who are the Id's ???
    We have constant conversation s here and in TS , and the one thing that is consistant is this. Not one Dev has commented or even acknowledged that the system is broken.
    God Bless all of you who have been trying to help and encourage us thru this , but the fact is , its not getting fixed and as near as I can tell , it isn't even a concern for the guys who actually can fix it.
    So if I'm wrong then I apologize but as I read thru all of the posts made for this topic , I do not see even One Dev that has anything to say regarding the topic of the UGC.

    So far I keep hearing that the" UMM Community is going to get some love "
    "We will be working to solve the issues" yada , yada , yada,
    In reality, All I have seen is a UMM contest that yielded us nothing more than a few maps that we already had.
    Hey guys I hate to be so negative but , lets face it you guys , for whatever reason have no time for the UMM community , and the sooner we understand that , the less damage it will do to the player base.

    Worst case scenario , we will update our maps manually each day and not rely on the system that doesn't work , we will continue one way or another , just please stop blowin smoke up our kilt !



  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    Maybe I'm
    It should be pointed out that the UGC system on Steams end was never intended to be used the way ld's are using it. Meaning, republishing maps everytime a small change is made to it, republishing every week etc. will likely break the system.

    Well I'm no expert but if the system cannot handle an update at least once a week than maybe the system is the problem.
    Either the system works or it doesn't the frequency of the updates should not be a factor.
    Look if we are going to be honst then lets just be honest the system doesn't work , it makes no difference why , or who's fault it is , it just doesn't work.
    Lets stop BS'ing everyone and either fix it or let it go. It really makes no difference to any of us why it does'mt work , we just want it to work if its not going to work than lets face facts we need to handle map updates manually and everyone will stop relying on a system that does not work and we will handle it manually and everyone will be better off using an idea that we know will work , even if it is inconvenient at least we won't have down time on our servers.
    And who are the Id's ???

    LD = Level Designer

    Running 84+ maps updating only once a week each is still an update pushed every 2 hours. That's really frequent. It's no surprise that pushing a system to its limits creates issues.

    As for "either fix it or let it go" -- you propose no content management as a solution? Say goodbye to playerbase. Convenience is *the* number one factor in getting players involved with user-produced content. Using the Steam infrastructure is way better for server performance, more reliable for players, offers centralized management... you're really selling short just how much this system is taking care of for you and for the players.
  • (Beer_Me)Roach(Beer_Me)Roach Posts: 249Player
    edited February 2016
    Sacco , I appreciate your ideas but you have very little to no knowledge regarding this issue .
    The amount of maps on any given server is irrelavent , the system only needs to update 1 map at a time as they get republished. It doesn't update 84 maps , "EVER" it only updates a map as it gets republished.
    I surely do not propose "No content management " but the fact is there is no content management now. You can publish a map and that works fine , but anytime A map needs to be republished , the system fails. People are expecting the UGC to update maps on the fly and it does not work , and the fact is , even if it did work it would still require people to close out their game and restart in order for the map to update client side. I have a unique position regarding this situation and my only intention is to get it fixed.
    I manage 80 plus maps all day every day and I do it even with the system "NOT WORKING"
    There is not one server in this game that has more trial and error to rely on ,than mine, so please do not post, just to post. If you have no knowledge than that's fine just let those who are working on the situation do what we need to do without needless banter from people who have no knowledge of the situation.
    The fact is we agree on one thing Convenience for the user but , what we have here is not convenient at all in fact it is counter productive because everyone is being told that the game works in a certain way and then it fails "Everytime" It fails.
    I do not endorse "No content management" but if your going to manage it then it needs to work , what we have here does not work and unless you actually have knowledge of what is happening then you may want to either do your homework or troll a different thread cause your not helping.

  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    Sacco , I appreciate your ideas but you have very little to no knowledge regarding this issue .
    The amount of maps on any given server is irrelavent , the system only needs to update 1 map at a time as they get republished. It doesn't update 84 maps EVER it only updates a map as it gets republished
    I surely do not propose "No content management " but the fact is there is no content management now. You can publish a map and that works fine , but anytime A map needs to be republished , the system fails. People are expecting the UGC to update maps on the fly and it does not work , and the fact is , even if it did work it would still require people to close out their game and restart in order for the map to update client side.
    The fact is we agree on one thing Convenience for the user but , what we have here is not convenient at all in fact it is counter productive because everyone is being told that the game works in a certain way and then it fails "Everytime" It fails.
    I do not endorse "No content management" but if your going to manage it then it needs to work , what we have here does not work and unless you actually have knowledge of what is happening then you may want to either do your homework or troll a different thread cause your not helping.

    I spent quite a bit of time working on tracking down issues working with Keebler last month. I'm not here to troll.
    http://forum.americasarmy.com/discussion/4370/umm-server-owners-version-mismatch/p1

    Updating everything manually is not a management system and is not what the average player will accept to play user-generated content. Again, you sell short the current system to say there's no CMS now.

    Expecting clients to close and restart the game client to receive updated content is a very low bar. Steam is set up to allow the user to restrict DLC downloads during play and those systems could be interfering as well (user error in settings on the client side?).
  • (Beer_Me)Roach(Beer_Me)Roach Posts: 249Player
    edited February 2016
    Wow , did you seriously just say exactly what I said and make it your analogy.
    Of course none of the above is acceptable , that's my point the system isn't working and whether you like it or not manually updating the maps is the only thing that is working currently .
    I know that updating everything manually is not good management , but also telling people that it works one way and in reality it does not , is also no good. I'm not sure what you and Keebler are working on but I can tell you this , I work on it daily every day every nite all day every day and I deal with every person that makes a map and the system don't work so manual is all we have and we need to stop letting people expect it to work otherwise.
    My point is FIX IT , and like I said , there is still not one Dev weighing in on this topic , .
    Fact is the system does not work and we need to make everyone understand that it is being handled manually until it is fixed, otherwise you give people unreal expectations that leads to disappointment.
    And more disappointment is not something that this game can afford.
    I haven't sold the current system short in any way , it works fine when you add a new map to your server, which seems to be the test you and Keebler are doing.
    The problem is when a map gets updated , the tests you and Keebler are doing are not at all related to the problem of a map updating . Mason and I have exhausted every avenue with this and the system just does not work.
    It is not user error , Steam is not updating maps unless the client closes his launcher and restarts it. And the server will not update a map unless you close the server down delete the .acf file (contained in the workshop folder) and then restart the server and then (AND ONLY THEN) it will update all of the maps on the server , it will overwrite what is not been updated and it will acquire anything that has been updated .
    I do not know if the malfunction is on the Steam side or on the game side , but it doesn't work unless you restart the launcher and it certainly is not user error. Its seems your tests from a month ago, are just that a month old, and we have already worked thru all that and it has nothing to do with a map updating, you are testing for a server to acquire a map via the metadata , that only works when the client is closed and re- opened .
    Maps updating is an entirely different issue.
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