Footstep Issues

.dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
edited February 2016 in General Discussion
I was messing around testing performance with dynamic lights off to see if I can get better FPS on maps like ColdFront and intercept. When I planted bomb messing around I noticed you don't hear footsteps for a few seconds after planting the bomb. Which should not be happening at all. I should hear all footsteps fine. The volume of the bomb being planted doesn't change at all so it does not make any sense. This is an example of the sound inconsistency's we currently have in this game. There is definitely more issues and different things causing you to not hear footsteps like this when you should. But they seem to be impossible to replicate.



I also find myself muting the whole server I join now a days because it seems people using voice chat prevent you from hearing footsteps or other sounds in certain situations. A problem I did not have on the old sound engine.
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Comments

  • -Ner0--Ner0- Posts: 1,573Player
    Just after planting there is the loud planting sound, I couldn't hear footsteps while that sound was playing, but that's only a half second.
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  • {4F}DeadlyGrouse{4F}DeadlyGrouse Posts: 277Player
    you can turn down the voip volume in the audio settings. I turned it down just loud enough that i can hear them talk. But if i'm shooting or someone else is shooting or running i cant hear them over the other stuff.
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    -Ner0- wrote: »
    Just after planting there is the loud planting sound, I couldn't hear footsteps while that sound was playing, but that's only a half second.

    You can't hear the first like 6 or more footsteps after I plant the bomb.
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  • -Ner0--Ner0- Posts: 1,573Player
    edited February 2016
    The loud planting sound is around a half second or maybe a little longer and in that time-frame there might be six footsteps, maybe less, maybe more I don't know, it's only a short moment.
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  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited February 2016
    -Ner0- wrote: »
    The loud planting sound is around a half second or maybe a little longer and in that time-frame there might be six footsteps, maybe less, maybe more I don't know, it's only a short moment.

    Whats your point? The sound is very inconsistent I am trying to help fix that. Sound also seems worse lately.

    I would be fine with hearing half the distance I can now as long as it was consistent. Meaning I can hear 10-15 metres no matter what direction/area of the map. One can only dream. But no I'll hear a guy for example 25 metres away and then i'll chase after him and some how hes not making footstep noises when I am getting even closer to him than I was before. Another good example is hearing guys run up and over north stairs defense side while I am entering west from assault side, But I am not able to hear people T or even people coming down west hall from defense spawn...Inconsistent

    The point is it is more than just planting the bomb and not hearing footsteps for a few seconds after the bomb has been planted where these problems exist.
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  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    edited February 2016
    There can be no denying there are some weird inconsistencies happening with various sounds from time to time. Trouble is.. you can never tell when your gonna come across it. One round you have an elephant running behind you, so you turn and shoot him.. then in the next round he's choking you like a ninja.

    I'm an idiot and I generally always play the same.. rush to dark, throw my nade.. wait for a couple to come my way then run in and start shooting, either that or plainly rush.. when you play the same way sooo much you notice the small differences in sounds, like someitmes you can hear a guy running through the surgery (on the wood floor) so you know to wait on the left for him to peek out the door on the right.. yet sometimes you cant hear that guy running on that floor so you don't expect him to be there (yet you know he must run fast to make it there at that exact time) and that why its bad.. it can get you killed. That's just one example..

    There are many other instances where you can be hearing things from abnormally far away or not at all, like nades, footsteps, revives, bandaging, reloads, enemy voices and weapon fire. I have a feeling its probably to do with some kind of sound engine limitation, maybe a priority mix-up or (I don't know how to put it) maximum amount of sounds at once allowance of playback, maybe a culling/amplification of certain sounds priorities dependant on your players location and situation? I mean lots of stuff and sounds are fired off in games with lots of players running around.. I really have no idea, I should stop before I say something that makes me look an even bigger idiot.. but there are still inconsistencies.. that's for sure and it's a truth.
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  • -Ner0--Ner0- Posts: 1,573Player
    My point is I can hear the footsteps in all the video just fine except during that loud clonk sound that is less than one second.
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  • should be able to hear if enemy is above or below also some maps are very difficult to tell

    just saying...
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited February 2016
    There seems to be a slight delay as to when you can hear footsteps after gunfire stops like the c4 planting issue above its not a huge delay like after planting C4 has but its there. Now add 24 players shooting at any given time with the ability to drown out footsteps and I bet this is the problem as to why sometimes you won't hear certain footsteps or sounds.

    Honestly gun fire should just be louder than footsteps but they shouldn't block your ability to hear footsteps completely. The footsteps should just be much quieter/lower volume than normal. I bet this would fix a lot of issues.

    Honestly nothing should cancel out any other sounds completely or you will run into issues like this. We are on the Unreal Engine 3 after all...It only supports 1 CPU so you can only dedicate so much to sound. By making certain sounds cancel out footsteps completely it's causing issues. (by delaying footsteps sounds after the sound interrupting footsteps has already passed) Certain sounds like gun fire or helicopter/jet flying over map should just make footsteps quieter than normal. It should not make them completely mute. If we were on the Unreal Engine 4 and were able to dedicate much more of the CPU to sound I know the sound would be much better and you could do the things your doing now better and even more. But at some point you have to sacrifice some stuff to achieve greatness.


    This should be looked into seriously and at the very least tested (Footsteps just get quiter than normal when gunfire is going on but they do not go to 0% volume completely. Unless you can fix the delays you have in the sound system for certain sounds blocking out footsteps...gun fire not hearing footsteps for less than a second after gunfire goes on the more gun fire going on the more drastic this will be, planting c4 not hearing footsteps for 2-3 seconds, jets flying over or any other ambient noises completely muting sound obviously have a delay as well as to when you can hear footsteps once they are completely done playing) with people who hear sounds well (ie. have good sound setups) to tell you if its better or not.
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  • iNv|eKCommiNv|eKComm Posts: 394Player
    Honestly, it sounds like your problem is a side effect of SVM. At least from your explanation. If SVM is on then the db's at and around the peak frequencies will be brought down... Since gun shots in this game dominate the sound stage out of the box then i'd say that + SVM should theoretically make hearing other things while shooting unlikely.

    Even without SVM the dominance of gunshots will make hearing anything else difficult. Specially if you don't have good hardware. (which i know you have good hardware colts)

    Still the benefits of SVM outweigh the side effects imo. I'd rather hear smaller sounds more of the time and not have my ears bleed when someone shoots.
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  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,152Player
    edited February 2016
    I was messing around in the editor and had music playing in the background. It was interesting that any time I would fire a weapon, the music I had in the background would greatly decrease in volume for quite a few seconds. The sound would gradually increase back to full volume but it would take like 5 seconds. I did it in a regular map to make sure it wasn't just a UMM issue. In the same way, any time I shoot any other in game sounds appear to be lower. It could be as Colts said, something where every bit of gunfire in the game has this kind of damping effect on everything.
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  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,152Player
    Here's a quick video
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  • So the Issue isn't that the sound effect is in the game, but the missing option for turning off the feature in the settings. Although turning this effect off would be unrealistic and untrue to the game idea. So... good luck :neutral:
  • iNv|eKCommiNv|eKComm Posts: 394Player
    edited February 2016
    Whip, I dont understand what your video is showing. If you were playing music and shooting lowered the music volume then its like a SVM effect. It wouldn't be in the game. Unless we think there is some feature of the sound engine that is applying some type of SVM effect in game?
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  • .dcG-Vortex^.dcG-Vortex^ Posts: 188Player
    edited February 2016
    "When the number of voices surpasses the playback limit, Wwise looks at the
    playback priority of each music object to see which one to stop playing. In this
    case, you would probably set the stinger segment to a lower priority to ensure
    that the “regular” music continues to play. If, however, all five objects in this
    example had the same priority, you can choose to kill the newest or the oldest
    instance."

    Footsteps are the newest sound in order of how they're added if you look at it, right?

    edit: http://i.imgur.com/vthIbCG.png

    edit 2: https://www.audiokinetic.com/download/documents/Wwise_HDR_UserGuide_en.pdf ?
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  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    In the same way, any time I shoot any other in game sounds appear to be lower.

    Intentional.
    Soundy wrote: »
    BCPull wrote: »
    How much are gunshots, grenades, flashbangs, and low health effects dampening or muffling sound?

    After playing some more, it seems like all of those can have a fairly dramatic effect (ie, more than in the current open build) and that's probably contributing to a lot of the mixing complaints / not hearing enemy footsteps.
    There is a real time WWISE audio module Pull, called HDR... High Dynamic Resolution. It is intended to somewhat reproduce human hearing protective mechanics. As you play, regardless of sound source and listener location, if there are sounds that pass a certain loudness threshold, a "muffeling"effect occurs. Below is a short description of what actually happens to the physiology of the human auditory system.

    http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/protect.html

    We are adjusting this frequently, after making overall audio mix adjustments, to attempt to emulate this. We did not have this in Unreal's native audio engine. Similar to weapon fire sounds, we have yet to find the best balance between reality and what is best for gameplay. Be assured we are working towards a solution.
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    Sooo..

    1215o55.jpg

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  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    Sooo..

    1215o55.jpg

    Meh. Gunshots are loud, don't expect to shoot and hear perfectly at the same time. It's a good feature.
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    edited February 2016
    I agree. When your doing something loud like firing your weapon off, you shouldnt be able to hear footsteps clearly as you would when your not firing.. no disputing from me on that one :)

    However I have a feeling this feature has more far reaching effects and likely does effect more than just weapon fire.. remember when Colts posted a video of him arming a bomb, and that it nulled his footsteps volume for a few seconds as he ran away from it? looked as if his ears were affected by the plant sound in a similar if not the same effect we see here from firing the weapon. Should that plant sound have that effect on the audio? yes maybe at the initial plant (upon the bleep) but not after surely?

    What I'm saying is certain sounds tailing in and out can be cool no doubt and I do like the effect.. but what about the negatives that can make things seem unnatural and bizzare when it occurs?
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  • iNv|eKCommiNv|eKComm Posts: 394Player
    The gunshot sound is already terribly loud. Why exactly should it further drown things out?

    Doesn't make sense.
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