Aim Punch revisited

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Comments

  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,621Beta Tester
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    One serious negative to aim punch is corner geometry. If a player is too close to the corner, thinking he is behind cover (I see this ALL the time!) then catching his shoulder with a bullet or two further neutralizes his response as you come around the corner and finish him off. So...there's a balance to consider there...

    Disagree. If you are stupid enough to expose your shoulder like that you take the damage and as long as it's in the game the aim punch as well. Taking and holding corners properly is a game mechanic and by design.

    What do you disagree with? I pointed out a mechanic that affects another mechanic, requiring balance.

    Are you saying you like aimpunch?

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  • Yato^Yato^ Posts: 103Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Whiplash, you and many others really hate the realism argument.

    Have you considered that this stand goes against your (collective) anti-random argument?

    If what happens isn't what REALLY happens, who ARBITRARILY decides what happens? Imaginary, made up "I just like it that way" parameters are.....wait for it.....Random.

    I've asked this...why not jump boots, power ups and low grav? This isn't a simulator after all...

    And your answer will flow back to what you consider proper. "This isn't a fantasy game, after all...."

    Except for the stuff we make up, of course. "We don't care about real life." Uh huh.

    Body armour transmits the significant force of a bullet impact to the wearer, exchanging that blunt force trauma and bruising for the worse alternative. This gives us......MORE aimpunch....not less.

    And some of you think you can actually keep your aim on target while taking hits? It takes the movement of your pulse in your cheek to make you miss and you think being shot doesn't affect your aim? (...I'm talking to you, pillow...)

    :p

    Explain how it then would affect hipfire, unless you speak of using your [TOS Violation] cheeks to aim, then yeah.

    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    By the way...why should armour stop "aimpunch?"

    What do you guys think armour DOES exactly when a bullet with a certain level of energy stops up against it?

    Video game =/= realism. Yes, realistically if you get shot you will flinch or whatever. However, realistically if you get shot on the head, some guy isn't going to slap toilet paper on you and get you back into the fight. Let's stop the realism talk. This game never made the claim of being a simulator.

    Here's my challenge. List the pros and cons of how aim punch affects game play. I'd especially like to see the proponents list out the pros.

    Nobody ever in the history has reacted to a bullet going through them with a spastic attack. You folks dont even comprehend the simple physics behind bullets, their low mass and high velocity. Since it has a low mass it wont move you. You might flinch a half a second after the bullet hit but it isnt because a piece of lead went through you, it's because of something happening suddenly. So please, your who realism argument you just used and then dismissed for other points further down the post are complete garbage.

    The only times people react with their bodies from bullets hitting them is a survival instinct to not want to die, hard to grasp, yeah. But it isnt because a piece of lead hit them that they were knocked off balance. They just don't feel like dying that day.

    I can even think of a video where a soldier in afghan slides down a hill being shot at by AK's, he does get hit multiple times. Even in the head but he didnt start having a seizure. He was completely unmoved from the bullets. They didnt even throw him off balance because again, LOW MASS; HIGH VELOCITY.

    Really, iti isnt rocket science, just basic physics.

    Also, why dont you list reasons for aimpunch being necessary? We all can already agree on it being an awful feature yet there isn't a single reasoning behind it being something worth keeping.

    Bro, I've been arguing against aim punch this entire thread. My whole point was that people who are claiming realism have no argument because the game isn't a simulator. A little reading comprehension goes a long way.

    I was only attacking the argument you brought up, namely "Video game =/= realism. Yes, realistically if you get shot you will flinch or whatever"

    A little reading comprehension goes a long way.
  • Yato^Yato^ Posts: 103Player
    Aim punch negative impacts to gameplay:
    - Makes spray&pray highly effective in every single situation
    - Creates a one dimensional game where every one plays the same, every one wants to shoot first regardless of where. Fights at the same level are always decided by who shot first, technically turning the game into a pseudo hardcore mode.
    - Makes pre-fires too good, pre-fire has its uses, but its a braindead move that has zero risk when the opposing player doesn't get a chance to fight back. Pre-fires were fine in the beta.
    - Rifles easily beat scopes at range. Should they?
    - Makes newbs completely helpless against better players, they don't even get a chance to land a lucky headshot once in a while. They're always sprayed into oblivion.

    I can go on, but I'll wait for some positive impacts...

    You know those positive impacts dont exist.
  • [Prt_Dictator][Prt_Dictator] Posts: 275Player
    Saccho wrote: »
    - 1-D game -- everybody **always** wanted to shoot first. Nobody was going around saying they wanted to shoot second. The non-aimpunch dynamic was still first to hit, you're just saying that now it's less about "first to hit the head". Nobody took away your ability to fall back, either. You don't have to fully commit to a fight. If the argument is that players are now going for easy bodyshots instead of aimed 1-taps (and that is what your S&P point and first-hit points are saying), it'd now be easier than it previously was to disengage.
    Before, the "first hit to the head" meant that there was a balance between shooting first and being accurate, that balance is gone as shooting first no matter where is the indisputable crystal clear best way to play.
    If I'm not the first to land a body shot I have to fall back as you said, that's one dimensional, I'm forced to land the first body shot always. Why aim higher and risk missing when I don't need to?

    As for your positives, nerfing the scopes should be done by nerfing the scopes, not by introducing new things that change everything. We already had hit direction thingy and screen blinking for feedback, not necessary. Having screen spasms doesn't really feel that immersive either, messing with my controls is the best way to take right out of the moment.
  • Yato^Yato^ Posts: 103Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    One serious negative to aim punch is corner geometry. If a player is too close to the corner, thinking he is behind cover (I see this ALL the time!) then catching his shoulder with a bullet or two further neutralizes his response as you come around the corner and finish him off. So...there's a balance to consider there...

    Disagree. If you are stupid enough to expose your shoulder like that you take the damage and as long as it's in the game the aim punch as well. Taking and holding corners properly is a game mechanic and by design.

    What do you disagree with? I pointed out a mechanic that affects another mechanic, requiring balance.

    Are you saying you like aimpunch?

    He's saying, dont be an ostrich.



    I see even players that are considered good repeat this amateur mistake. Really, it's the baics of FPS games.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    edited February 2016
    ^
    this.

    Do I like aim punch? I honestly don't mind it, the change didn't really affect the outcome of my encounters. What I don't like about the addition of it is that its combination with suppression which results in most encounters being spray and pray parties. I want either of them removed and don't really care which one while I think removing aim punch would benefit the average player more.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,621Beta Tester
    Well, honestly, I don't "like" EITHER of them :p

    Maybe if it was more 'a little of each' it would be immersive without being OP.

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  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,621Beta Tester
    By the way, that video is done WAY better than most people explain this stuff. I've seen it before (thanks to Saccho) but I really like it.

    :+1:

    Knowing it and teaching it are two different things.
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  • =IK=SgtBadazz=IK=SgtBadazz Posts: 160Player
    Aim punch = OK. Suppression + aim punch = bad.
  • Bam4DBam4D Posts: 976Player
    edited February 2016
    I noticed aimpunch back when I had low frames - 20 FPS - but that was also when it was new. I barely notice it now. It seems kind of pointless.

    :+1: Thanks for being ARMY strong.

    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Whiplash, you and many others really hate the realism argument.

    Have you considered that this stand goes against your (collective) anti-random argument?

    If what happens isn't what REALLY happens, who ARBITRARILY decides what happens? Imaginary, made up "I just like it that way" parameters are.....wait for it.....Random.

    I've asked this...why not jump boots, power ups and low grav? This isn't a simulator after all...

    And your answer will flow back to what you consider proper. "This isn't a fantasy game, after all...."

    Except for the stuff we make up, of course. "We don't care about real life." Uh huh.

    Body armour transmits the significant force of a bullet impact to the wearer, exchanging that blunt force trauma and bruising for the worse alternative. This gives us......MORE aimpunch....not less.

    And some of you think you can actually keep your aim on target while taking hits? It takes the movement of your pulse in your cheek to make you miss and you think being shot doesn't affect your aim? (...I'm talking to you, pillow...)

    :p

    :+1: lol speaking truth Keebler :D some Can't Overcome Miniscule Problems

    _________________________

    ********Bam4D********

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    ________Army 1980_________


  • K!Dz.applePIEK!Dz.applePIE Posts: 1,050Player
    I think I recently posted a video of a great player here (army strong) who did shoot me first and lost the fight.. regardless of aim punch and suppression..

    So obviously good players can still turn around and shoot someone even if they are not the ones firing first.

    And firing first is also a tactical skill and not one dimensional. That being said, aim punch or no aim punch.. this will not effect the player numbers one bit..
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    So bored of that "don't expose yourself and always stay near cover" argument when it comes to s&p because that's simply not how the majority plays this game. Majority of firefights are in the open and with the addition of aim punch mostly just about who shoots first. We're talking average players and gameplay btw..

    On a side note: Revert sniper nerfs because it's hard enough to hit those 2 pixels the enemy exposes.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Above average players are always cough in the open too..let's not kid ourselves ..another reason against that stay behind cover at all time..impossible until they provide me with that meat shield one requested.
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  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    Maybe I was hinting at below average players :trollface:
  • [Prt_Dictator][Prt_Dictator] Posts: 275Player
    Aim punch is not as much about skill as it is about a feature that brings nothing of value to the gameplay and unnecessarily changes the meta of the game.
    Obviously, better players will adapt to whatever works best and will keep being better, but that doesn't mean its fine to have such features. That point is irrelevant because it can be said about anything.

    The fact is, there is no point to make the first hit so important, it makes every fight feel the same, it devalues headshots, makes people even more afraid to move and be 'exposed' among other things already talked about.
    All of that for what? Immersion? Give me a break...
  • IO_i_OIIO_i_OI Posts: 1,107Player
    Here is a look a aim punch in action....

    tumblr_mzyxwaL7fH1rhzkbco1_1280.gif
    googley avatar aapg


  • Bam4DBam4D Posts: 976Player
    I think I recently posted a video of a great player here (army strong) who did shoot me first and lost the fight.. regardless of aim punch and suppression..

    So obviously good players can still turn around and shoot someone even if they are not the ones firing first.

    And firing first is also a tactical skill and not one dimensional. That being said, aim punch or no aim punch.. this will not effect the player numbers one bit..

    Yes, what a LOCKY aim you have..

    _________________________

    ********Bam4D********

    BE ALL (THAT) YOU CAN BE!

    ________Army 1980_________


  • K!Dz.applePIEK!Dz.applePIE Posts: 1,050Player
    you mean it locks on immersive no hud 6K hours players who go army strong? you bet it does..
    If you come back I can teach you some tricks but mic is important.. typing takes too much time..
  • Bam4DBam4D Posts: 976Player
    You have been weighed and measured, everyone has seen the video.. enjoy your artificial reality.


    Karma made you tell on yourself.. there is justice.

    _________________________

    ********Bam4D********

    BE ALL (THAT) YOU CAN BE!

    ________Army 1980_________


  • K!Dz.applePIEK!Dz.applePIE Posts: 1,050Player
    You lost me on artificial reality.. Is this something with NO HUD?
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