Aim Punch revisited
4DChessGenius
Posts: 2,161Player
Thought I'd bring this up since I remember in the prior aim punch thread it was told to me that CS has aim punch too (as a rebuttal). Well, I've been playing a bit of CS lately and here's what I see:
Facts:
1. If you get shot anywhere you temporarily slow down. This is a big help for the attacker since they landed the first hit.
2. Aim punch ONLY occurs if the player head shot you and didn't kill you (lower caliber bullets when player wears helmet). This rewards the player for landing a head shot (as skill play).
3. If a player gets hit anywhere else on the body, his aim is not impacted. The player instead continues to aim unimpeded.
Considerations for AAPG:
Personally, I almost never notice aim punch when i'm not using a zoomed weapon. I'm not sure if I'm getting punched and just don't notice (certainly possible), but if I used a zoomed optic and I get hit, the aim punch is extremely noticeable. I'm not sure if this is by design.
How does aim punch currently work? Is it random? Does it occur on every hit? Does it occur for only certain hits?
My biggest issue with aim punch is that when it works, it's a harsh penalty for getting hit by low skill shots (torso, legs, arms). This is not a good design. Any time you move a player's aim for something that they didn't cause is not good. Again, with CS we're talking about landing a head shot, something that in this game is an instant kill and the highest of skill shots.
My preference is the slow down mechanic. Of course, I'd also prefer the old school AA style where a player who is injured doesn't move as fast in general.
If the aim punch's main goal is to help unzoomed players face off against zoomed players, I can get on board, although I still don't think it's optimal. Having a more intense breathing system would be better. Zoomed players are still at a big advantage in many maps.
I still think suppression is a bigger issue especially when someone is firing a SAW at you.
P.S. No flame wars PLEASE!
Facts:
1. If you get shot anywhere you temporarily slow down. This is a big help for the attacker since they landed the first hit.
2. Aim punch ONLY occurs if the player head shot you and didn't kill you (lower caliber bullets when player wears helmet). This rewards the player for landing a head shot (as skill play).
3. If a player gets hit anywhere else on the body, his aim is not impacted. The player instead continues to aim unimpeded.
Considerations for AAPG:
Personally, I almost never notice aim punch when i'm not using a zoomed weapon. I'm not sure if I'm getting punched and just don't notice (certainly possible), but if I used a zoomed optic and I get hit, the aim punch is extremely noticeable. I'm not sure if this is by design.
How does aim punch currently work? Is it random? Does it occur on every hit? Does it occur for only certain hits?
My biggest issue with aim punch is that when it works, it's a harsh penalty for getting hit by low skill shots (torso, legs, arms). This is not a good design. Any time you move a player's aim for something that they didn't cause is not good. Again, with CS we're talking about landing a head shot, something that in this game is an instant kill and the highest of skill shots.
My preference is the slow down mechanic. Of course, I'd also prefer the old school AA style where a player who is injured doesn't move as fast in general.
If the aim punch's main goal is to help unzoomed players face off against zoomed players, I can get on board, although I still don't think it's optimal. Having a more intense breathing system would be better. Zoomed players are still at a big advantage in many maps.
I still think suppression is a bigger issue especially when someone is firing a SAW at you.
P.S. No flame wars PLEASE!
You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
Comments
CS aimpunch affects both torso and headshots. You've missed the effect of armor; wearing armor reduces the effect to 5% of normal. It both affects cursor position AND adds a large random displacement to the shot (*gasp* how does the game even survive with a random effect? /s).
In AAPG:
* aim punch has no random element whatsoever
* aim punch does not affect accuracy properties; the bullet still goes exactly where you're aiming
* on being hit, it tilts your aim down by a few degrees (I forget the exact number, but it's always exactly the same amount)
You notice it more with zoomed optics because the decreased FOV magnifies how much you notice those few degrees of tilt. The amount your camera rotates is still the same as if you weren't zoomed. This also means it is more noticeable when you're aiming at a more distant target.
CS does it as well and not just for headshots. It's a penalty for getting shot, indirectly caused by you being exposed to fire -- saying the player didn't cause it is an incomplete view. Finally, it's not just a penalty for you, it's a reward for the other player.
I hit someone, shouldn't the damage of the hit be the reward? The better placed, the more damage it does.
Why do I need to hurt my opponents chance of comeback if my shot was poorly placed?
It's a big part of "glass cannon" AWPing when economy's tight and makes that player much more vulnerable beyond just damage considerations.
A full understanding of armor's role in the effect is part of understanding that aimpunch is always present.
A good example of aimpunch as a valuable countering mechanic is when a rifle player moves against a sniper at long ranges. Landing a single hit to disrupt him has a large effect on aim (because of zoomed FOV and long distance) and allows the player to escape/advance/whatever. It creates a dynamic where the weaker weapon can create an opening even though it isn't really a lethal threat in that situation. Landing a quick headshot against the sniper at long range is generally unrealistic, but if they've exposed their body, that's doable.
In most rounds, except the first few when money is more scarce, people wear body armor. That's an economy issue. In a game like CS, aim punch without body armor gives a reward to the team who wins the first couple of rounds since they can just wear body armor and only have very slight aim punch vs. the team who can't afford it.
America's Army doesn't have a similar economy system, so that aspect of it is irrelevant.
hence my tests say Random.. which is garbage
#Support Comp Mode
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN4YhM6jUB2MxVj8i3b9rhw
There are also lag concerns, while inconsistencies in client side can be slightly annoying in general, when they start to actually change your controls its a problem.
Basic armor = faster movement, exposed to aim punch
Armor+ = slower movement, no aim punch
Would certainly make armor choices more interesting, but I have no idea what purpose it would serve besides adding a small choice to the player depending on their play style.
The economy part was just answering your question on why the body armor aspect mattered and when it affects CS play.
As for comp player opinions: there are outcries from some of them for any change. Take the recent rifles nerf. Some of them declared it was the end of the world, some said it was a good change.
Again: isn't it amazing that CSGO hasn't crashed and burned what with all the random effects like aimpunch and movement inaccuracy effects and random bullet spread applied on every shot and server/client hit locations being different? The simpler explanation is that the pros don't always have the correct answers for what makes good design.
Unfortunately, with AA we're sitting with an extremely small community. Unless we do it better, then we have no hope.
This constant whining for "MILLIONS OR BUST" isn't doing anybody any favors. No hope of what, exactly?
How come we have no armor?
It's been covered in other threads and we've gotten nowhere with it. The game averages less players than a vast majority of FPS games which share similar characteristics to it. There's no graph that you can put out there that changes that.
No one is saying millions or bust.
How about having the game average more than a few thousand players at a time?
How about having an abundance of public servers in my region of the world which aren't playing Inner Hospital?
How about a thriving competitive community?
How about just having a game that people will be interested in playing another one or two years from now?
How about the possibility of a second straight America's Army game which came nowhere near to making a mark on the FPS landscape? Will there even be an AA5? Maybe the Army just takes the game and makes it an in house training tool and calls it a day. Seriously, if AA isn't being played by lots of people, then it's a pretty poor PR tool. What purpose does the game serve? Is the Army just spending money for fun?
Anyway, stop derailing the thread. This is about Aim Punch.
I went and looked at this to make sure there wasn't a bug introduced somewhere. The intent is that the movement from aim punch is always straight down and always the same amount. The hit location doesn't matter.
After testing with multiple weapons and multiple hit locations it is indeed working as intended. A shot, with any weapon, to any location (except the head) produces the same amount of aim punch straight down.
No need for the qualification, it works on the head, too. You just have to be careful not to kill the target in the process. (Ex: long-distance headshot through a wall)
What do you guys think armour DOES exactly when a bullet with a certain level of energy stops up against it?
This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
Designers make mistakes and are not always aware of the repercussions of certain changes to gameplay, that was pretty evident not only in the rifle change that was rollbackd, but also the inclusion of the R8 revolver that was unbelievably overpowered.
Aim punch in CoD balances out the aim assist, in CS balances out armor, in AAPG serves no purpose other than being an annoyance.