M24- what do you think about it?

SithHunterSithHunter Posts: 109Player
edited May 2015 in General Discussion
So, now that M24 is no longer brand- new addition and it has settled itself in the game for a pretty long time without being changed, I want to ask you guys, what do you think in general about it?

I think it's a good moment to have a look at it that we are getting closer to end of open beta.

To start some form of a discussion the only thing that bothers me is the stability of sway during holding your breath- but it affects all weapons, so it wouldn't be fair I think to change it only for this one.
How do you feel about M24?
  1. Does M24 need tweaking?41 votes
    1. It's fine as it is.
    2. It needs some changes. (Comment what changes you think it needs)
    3. I don't care.
  2. What do you think about M24 difficulty to operate in comparison to other weapons?41 votes
    1. It's fine.
    2. The rifle is too easy to use. (Comment why)
    3. The rifle is too hard to use. (Also comment why)
    4. I don't care.
  3. What do you think is the role of limited classes' weapons (M24, M14, M249, M16) in-game?41 votes
    1. To be a sidegrade to M4 with similar balance of weaknesses and strengths.
    2. To have overall better fragging power than M4, because it is a limited weapon.
    3. To be a situational weapon, to be used effectively only in very specific conditions.
    4. Other (comment)


  • Hey.I.Have.A.GunHey.I.Have.A.Gun Posts: 643Player
    I like how 5/7 people voted that it's too easy to use, but nobody has commented as to why.
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    edited May 2015
    I think M24 is alright. If anything, I'd say this weapon most effectively reveals the holes in how some people play -- over-commiting on peeks, re-peeking the same spot, pushing one man at a time, slow crouching through corners, running across large exposed areas...

    It also suffers from a unique sound. When a bad player has an M24 and dies, no biggie. When a good player has it, that distinction gives players a convenient scapegoat -- "I didn't screw up, that gun's just too strong." Why search your own play for faults when you can shift blame to something else instead? The same thing happens with players that accuse others of being "INI tweakers", for example. They don't have to admit shortcoming.

    So! Why does the gun need to be changed?
  • =IK=SgtBadazz=IK=SgtBadazz Posts: 160Player
    M24 is fine. I'm pretty sure that anyone that is good with it, does well with any weapon. If it was weaker, then there would be no reason for anyone to use it.
  • -=312th=-BOXER-=312th=-BOXER Posts: 19Player
    I think it sucks my self! Take out the quick lean kills, then you got a good gun!
  • -=312th=-BOXER-=312th=-BOXER Posts: 19Player
  • -=312th=-BOXER-=312th=-BOXER Posts: 19Player
    Whats with the poll?
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    edited May 2015
    Whats with the poll?

    What's with the triple post?

    M24 is fine as long as its used by a proficient user and in a map that warrants its long range capability. While it may 'seem' like the pros outweigh any cons and it's perceived as overpowered.. too easy to use, that's not the case. It's got a crappy rate of fire and a severe lack of peripheral vision, not only that it promotes campers camping and nobody in AAPG seems to like that playstyle whatsoever.. so if you ask me its a poor choice in the wrong hands. I've seen players kicked out of a server for using it.

    It's not like you can 360 noscope with it and if anyone can, especially with any sort of repetition.. I want to see un-edited video proof.
  • Dct.F|LeventeDct.F|Levente Posts: 585Beta Tester
    edited May 2015
    I think the weapon itself is fine. The only change I'd maybe make, that is should not be a one-hit-kill on the fingers/hands, only the upper arms/shoulders. Maybe. But this would need the change of the in-game damage system and it sounds too much to ask for.

    The main thing what could make a lot of people happy: admin/ini power to disable certain roles per map. But this is not about the weapon itself.
    Edit: yes, the lean-kills sometimes are quite ridiculous with all guns, but especially with the M24. But I don't have any ideas right now how to fix that.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    I agree only change I would like to see is to the damage model..too many leg hand shots result in kills .. only upper torso and head should be installed kills ..
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    edited May 2015
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    I agree only change I would like to see is to the damage model..too many leg hand shots result in kills .. only upper torso and head should be installed kills ..

    I have always assumed they only happen when recipient of hand/leg shot is already low on health or is at reduced health? I often survive M24 shots, which I imagine hit me in the arm/leg/nether region/foot whatever.. it does leave me with very little health if I manage to escape a second shot. Whenever I have been insta-killed I feel it's been a headshot or upper torso.. but lets not forget about damage dropoffs over distance they will have a factor too no doubt.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    I don't know. .you may be right, I guess a simple test would be required
  • PredictionPrediction Posts: 132Player
    edited May 2015
    I agree with the one shot kill. That should be changed.

    I also feel it is still a little too easy to use because of the fact you can sit and look at the map non ads which gives you the view of the entire angle of a map most of the time and then once you see a little movement within a second you are able to scope and shoot. I just think a sniper should take a little longer to setup a shot. For the most part I see people getting kills with it within the first 2 seconds of the map now if that is not an issue of too easy to use then please explain.

    The sniper should only be really effective using a supported position(once they fix it) or a bipod(if they implement that) but a standing or even worse a walking sniper combined with the quick lean scope shot is already very unrealistic and makes the gun too easy to use.
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    I can agree its a little quick to ready up and take the shot, but isn't that more to do with 'skill' than something that's perceived as making it easy? It's also depending on target position, is he still/moving? I know I miss moving targets all the time. infact, the more I think about it on most maps.. we have played them for so long you can often establish a pattern of where someone is likely to go/be and therefore be ready and waiting for that window of opportunity to take a shot.

    On the subject of how quick it is to ADS and fire.. perhaps a little more of the uncontrollable sway on a standing stance perhaps? it does seem a little 'hold your hand' and even more so when holding breath, which literally nulls any sort of sway for a few seconds no matter what stance you take.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Pretty sure after a shot the animation is ...unscopes and pull chamber loading new bullet the it re scoped? No?
  • -SD-DELTON-ACI--SD-DELTON-ACI- Posts: 1,457Player
    Its fine as it is just let us remove it from all BDX maps and innerhospital.
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    edited May 2015
    One-shot killing power needs to stay to keep the M24 even remotely viable compared to the M14 (which is generally a 2-hit kill).

    Damage to hands and lower arms is same as elsewhere on body because, if an enemy is facing you, the first location hit is where the damage is registered. Hands and arms are frequently hit in face-to-face confrontations as a result. The current system doesn't model a bullet piercing a player and striking the same person twice (though bullets can pass through one player and strike others behind him), so hits to arms are balanced with that consideration in mind.
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player

    We already have this, it's called the "M14" now...
  • DeltaKiloDeltaKilo Posts: 146Developer
    Like BCPull said, the arms/hands have the same damage values as the upper torso because they often block shots that would hit the upper torso because you have your arms up in front of you holding your weapon. It would be more accurate to have them separate, but from a gameplay perspective it wouldn't seem right to be shooting someone in the arms and doing less damage when you are aiming at the center of their chest. The performance cost of doing line traces to calculate bullets going through hands or arms and hitting the same player would be somewhat costly and then we would have to ask how much damage would get applied the second time because the first hit would have slowed the bullet down to some degree. It can get very complicated and sometimes the simple way is the best way.

    I do see where it doesn't seem right to see someone's hands sticking around a corner and hitting them is a one shot kill. Maybe there is something we can do to reduce the damage to the hands/arms if the shot came from the side and not the front of the player getting hit.

    Shooting someone in the legs with the M24 does not kill with one shot if they are at full health. If they don't bandage, they will bleed out from the one shot though.
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