AA5 Discussion Thread (Renamed)

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  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,126Player
    Anyone remember it was something like AA 2.6 (or was it 2.4?) where we got atomic flashbangs? I remember guys just standing in a corner with a flashbang in hand, wait to hear someone come into a room, toss it, guy would be blinded for like an hour and then easy kill. It was brutal.

    The problem with making any grenade realistic is that in a round-based game where you're playing the same maps over and over again, people learn where others come from. It's easy to learn how to time grenades, where people tend to come from, among other things. Making grenades too strong cheapens gameplay.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • frankoffrankof Posts: 1,018Moderator
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    The problem with making any grenade realistic is that in a round-based game where you're playing the same maps over and over again, people learn where others come from. It's easy to learn how to time grenades, where people tend to come from, among other things. Making grenades too strong cheapens gameplay.
    That swings both ways, once you understand that you will get a grenade in your head at 4:26 at x location, you hold off till 4:28 and pop the nade spammer :D

    ss_4_frankof.png
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    The problem with making any grenade realistic is that in a round-based game where you're playing the same maps over and over again, people learn where others come from. It's easy to learn how to time grenades, where people tend to come from, among other things. Making grenades too strong cheapens gameplay.

    That's why AAV needs a Tactical Walk with zero noise. Not like the one we have now, current one is pointless, you can still hear the guy.
    Sound is a huge part of the game, but hearing too much gives the defense far too great of an advantage.
    Having the ability to walk without noise puts everyone on alert, forces defense to take peeks in all directions and just evens out the playing field.

    Huge plus for those tactical players that want to be sneaky beaky work their way onto a site.
    _____________________________
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  • .!.dgodfather.!.dgodfather Posts: 446Player
    edited September 2018
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    The problem with making any grenade realistic is that in a round-based game where you're playing the same maps over and over again, people learn where others come from. It's easy to learn how to time grenades, where people tend to come from, among other things. Making grenades too strong cheapens gameplay.

    That's why AAV needs a Tactical Walk with zero noise. Not like the one we have now, current one is pointless, you can still hear the guy.
    Sound is a huge part of the game, but hearing too much gives the defense far too great of an advantage.
    Having the ability to walk without noise puts everyone on alert, forces defense to take peeks in all directions and just evens out the playing field.

    Huge plus for those tactical players that want to be sneaky beaky work their way onto a site.

    This is movement discussion I can agree with. Preach on about slow tactical movement and sound. hahah.

    The movement discussion is all dependent upon how fluid the movement actions of the character are. If everything you do is slow, then yes you need to move faster. If the animations and actions are slick, then movement doesn't have to be as fast. The balance must support itself on both sides.
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  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    The problem with making any grenade realistic is that in a round-based game where you're playing the same maps over and over again, people learn where others come from. It's easy to learn how to time grenades, where people tend to come from, among other things. Making grenades too strong cheapens gameplay.

    That's why AAV needs a Tactical Walk with zero noise. Not like the one we have now, current one is pointless, you can still hear the guy.
    Sound is a huge part of the game, but hearing too much gives the defense far too great of an advantage.
    Having the ability to walk without noise puts everyone on alert, forces defense to take peeks in all directions and just evens out the playing field.

    Huge plus for those tactical players that want to be sneaky beaky work their way onto a site.

    This is movement discussion I can agree with. Preach on about slow tactical movement and sound. hahah.

    The movement discussion is all dependent upon how fluid the movement actions of the character are. If everything you do is slow, then yes you need to move faster. If the animations and actions are slick, then movement doesn't have to be as fast. The balance must support itself on both sides.

    lol.. I knew you'd like that one! and that's fine, I agree movement needs to be balanced, but it just cant be as sluggish as in current state. A slightly quicker strafe for corner peeking, faster walk speed than current cause thats the sluggish part, and I'd be fine.
    You counter the speed with a zero noise tactical walk, used to throw off defense by not knowing your position or where you're coming from, a player at this point can choose, and really different situations call for different actions, do you charge the site making all the noise in the world, or do you sneak on giving the attacker a slight edge until contact is made.

    Currently everyone in comp just sound wh#%s everything which makes flanks next to impossible.

    Its a huge part of the game that needs to be implemented.
    _____________________________
    #Support Comp Mode

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  • .!.dgodfather.!.dgodfather Posts: 446Player
    Well stated. Doesn't AAPG use wwise? How come the sounds are terrible (just about everything). Insurgency Sandstorm is using wwise and the sounds are pretty slick.
    Fragweiser Website
    Make AA Great Again!
  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,126Player
    I agree with Doba. No point in having a slow walk function if guys with top class sound setups can hear you anyway. Other games are like this as well, the only way you can potentially make it so enemies don't hear you coming is cover fire (probably won't work since the footsteps are closer) or throwing smoke grenades near the enemy so they can't hear anything but the smoke and even then it's not guaranteed. It makes it so that anyone with a great sound setup can know where enemies are no matter how good their tactics are.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • Sr.GatilhoSr.Gatilho Posts: 51Player
    Without a doubt that tactical movement needs to be changed.Attack need tools to counter camping and zero sound is one of them. not fair to the attack using tactical and still can be heard clearly by someone camping.in AAPG attack has very few tools to counter defense and its something to think for the next game,maybe the quick peeking is the only good tool to attack but even that has problems due to lag concerns.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    AAV should be great if ya'll just keep agreeing.. Tee hee.. he said Ya'll
    _____________________________
    #Support Comp Mode

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  • .!.dgodfather.!.dgodfather Posts: 446Player
    What we have planned and what the AA team has planned will not be the same Doba. Don't be so foolish. haha
    Fragweiser Website
    Make AA Great Again!
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    I find with the Wwise sounds, they decrease over distance, but all you have to do is crank the volume. I think various sounds should have different cut-off distances so no matter how hard you crank your headset, there's nothing to hear. I also think there should be something like Sound Classes, where certain groups of sounds perform in certain ways. IE gun shots should be heard across a map, but tactical crouch and gear rustle should not just decrease through an object, but be totally blocked. [Dev]Soundy worked hard on Insurgent camp at our request, but you can still hear someone tactical crouching through a stone wall north outside Y stairs, for example. I'd really like sound to be a truly strategic feature, and not what amounts to an exploit for those with either good headsets, or those willing to blow their eardrums.

    With my Sound Class idea, which would take additional coding, there'd be classes like Loud (gun shots, grenades) Medium (running on wood or concrete, reloading, yelling HOOAH) and Soft (tactical crouch, battle rattle, prone) etc and then materials in the world with an added slot in the coding for sound filtering. "Loud" material filter on a solid wall only allows Loud sounds through, "Soft" material filter on a wood fence, curtain, etc would allow all sounds ABOVE "Soft" ...so, Soft, Medium, Loud. Then maybe even have a "None" class to filter all sound and allow for only ambient coded sounds in the area.

    I still think blocked and unblocked sounds should still be modified for the tone, or muffling. I think it would be really immersive and more fair for everyone no matter what the sound gear if we could get this right.

    I'd also like to see reflected sounds come through a doorway as the path of least resistance compared to the solid wall that might be between you and your opponent. That would REALLY mess people up and cause them to pay attention!

    Right now, I can easily exploit the sound if I'm stationary and someone is moving toward me. It seems like I'm looking right through the wall at their sound!
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  • Hey.I.Have.A.GunHey.I.Have.A.Gun Posts: 641Player
    I'd like the Z-axis that Wwise was supposed to bring.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    I was going to add that. It wasn't Wwise, but a plug-in, and it ended up not working. I'd love to be "Up and Over" on Inner Hospital and not have Main Choke gunfire and footsteps sound like they're right beside me... :(
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  • Hey.I.Have.A.GunHey.I.Have.A.Gun Posts: 641Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    I was going to add that. It wasn't Wwise, but a plug-in, and it ended up not working. I'd love to be "Up and Over" on Inner Hospital and not have Main Choke gunfire and footsteps sound like they're right beside me... :(

    Ah. I just remember it was supposed to be introduced with Wwise, so I naturally associated the two.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    I'd love to be "Up and Over" on Inner Hospital and not have Main Choke gunfire and footsteps sound like they're right beside me... :(

    Ya, up and over was my position in matches cause winning it means lots of map possession. And as mentioned the vertical sound was hard to deal with, but also without that complete silent walk it was next to impossible to progress from up there for a flank, everyone heard you coming down and you walk out that single door into a trap every time if not dead on the stairs.

    Just another prime example why the game needs complete silent tactical walk.
    _____________________________
    #Support Comp Mode

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  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,126Player
    Mr. Hollywood hasn't responded to this thread in a bit. I wonder if there's been any discussion of them using the PC version of AAPG as a test bed for these types of things. Would be nice.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Developer
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Mr. Hollywood hasn't responded to this thread in a bit. I wonder if there's been any discussion of them using the PC version of AAPG as a test bed for these types of things. Would be nice.

    Lol I'm still reading it all. Sound is a huge part of any game but I don't have anything to add, carry on!
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,605Beta Tester
    edited September 2018
    Since there is no such thing as a PS4 "Workstation" that runs 3DS MAX etc etc then any testing and design HAS to start on a PC workstation. So, until such a time as consoles actually do something useful besides play games....
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  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,126Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Mr. Hollywood hasn't responded to this thread in a bit. I wonder if there's been any discussion of them using the PC version of AAPG as a test bed for these types of things. Would be nice.

    Lol I'm still reading it all. Sound is a huge part of any game but I don't have anything to add, carry on!

    I was more thinking about the idea where we were talking about using PC AAPG to mess around with the core mechanics of the game since PC AAPG is practically dead. Things like movement speed, action speed, weapon handling, grenades, reintroducing squads, a completely quiet tactical mode, things of that nature. It could help you guys get more of an idea of what kind of gameplay may work in AAV.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Developer
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Mr. Hollywood hasn't responded to this thread in a bit. I wonder if there's been any discussion of them using the PC version of AAPG as a test bed for these types of things. Would be nice.

    Lol I'm still reading it all. Sound is a huge part of any game but I don't have anything to add, carry on!

    I was more thinking about the idea where we were talking about using PC AAPG to mess around with the core mechanics of the game since PC AAPG is practically dead. Things like movement speed, action speed, weapon handling, grenades, reintroducing squads, a completely quiet tactical mode, things of that nature. It could help you guys get more of an idea of what kind of gameplay may work in AAV.

    Developers really don't want to split codebases so that probably won't happen. Changes will be made for all platforms or not at all.
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