AA5 Discussion Thread (Renamed)

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  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,161Player
    edited September 2018
    doogle! wrote: »
    Meh, unfortunately our userbase right now is so small, this would be negative for the game.
    Would definitely not work in the current game. Hopefully a new AA sees a decent sized group of people at least give it try.

    `xinoN wrote: »
    I don't know, I'm not a big fan of public betas. I thought I was back when AAPG came out but most of people don't get it and only give the game one chance... and I'm not talking about bugs but the amount of features in it. Not even having a functional fullscreen serverbrowser is a mood killer. It kind of depends on the beta but I'd say it should atleast be compfriendly out of the box.
    Is the question on AAPG one of whether the game was released in too early of a state or whether the direction of the game was poor from day 1 and destined to fail? Most of the early reviews on the game attacked its core (lack of Army feeling, run and gun gameplay, revive system, trying too hard to be like CoD, cardboard maps with no imagination, etc.) not that the game was incomplete or missing features. Also, when I mean public betas, it has more to do with it being on a patch-to-patch basis, not prior to the initial release.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    PUBG has a pretty good system. I assume they have internal betas, then they put out a public test build that people can play if they want to, otherwise just play the stable build. People can then provide feedback on the test build, report bugs, etc. The devs can then go back and do more work based on the feedback they receive before putting the patch out on the main/stable build.

    It would work like this:
    1) Internal alpha -> 2) Closed Beta -> 3) Public Beta -> 4) Closed Beta -> Adjust & repeat other steps as necessary -> Public Release

    That's actually not a terrible idea and could be helpful. Believe it or not there is not a huge team working on AAPG. A lot of my time is spent horse-trading for resources to get your reported bugs fixed and the features most loudly requested in.

    But that's how I do the job. I'm not your boss, I'm your champion and your voice to the dev team. I don't like all the walls that's been this thread recently.
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Player
    doogle! wrote: »
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    PUBG has a pretty good system. I assume they have internal betas, then they put out a public test build that people can play if they want to, otherwise just play the stable build. People can then provide feedback on the test build, report bugs, etc. The devs can then go back and do more work based on the feedback they receive before putting the patch out on the main/stable build.

    It would work like this:
    1) Internal alpha -> 2) Closed Beta -> 3) Public Beta -> 4) Closed Beta -> Adjust & repeat other steps as necessary -> Public Release

    Meh, unfortunately our userbase right now is so small, this would be negative for the game.

    Well that could be fixed by sponsoring their new game to major youtuber that do tactical shooters a lot and sponsoring a video or two for the new game. It will pull in a good amount of players to at least try the game.

    We agree and we plan to, I'm sure you've seen my posts on the topic. Getting artist resources to make the streamer kits (etc.), the marketing money to sponsor some, finding and sharing the ones I've found already, setting up Play With The Devs streams, etc. I'm working it all! Let's go!
  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,161Player
    edited September 2018
    By the way, one of the big changes I would make over AAPG is action speed. You do things way too fast in AAPG. Things like reloading and switch weapons just happen at way too quick of a speed. Check out the original AA and see how long actions took. I can't count the amount of times I died or killed someone who ran out of ammo or pulled out a grenade at the wrong time. It makes players who who made mistakes vulnerable and would allow players to push on players who made those mistakes. Super fast actions completely negates that aspect.

    Running out of ammo is hardly a danger because you could reload so fast. Go back to the original AA and see how long it took to reload. Your only choices were to take out your secondary (if you had one) or run away. Sure it led to reload dances in those days, but I think having all soldiers carrying a pistol completely removes that issue. It also makes the secondaries more viable as an emergency weapon. It made firefights more interesting because it allowed players to charge after an enemy who ran out of ammunition and finish them off before they had a chance to finish reloading. Same went for switching to grenades. In this game the action is so fast that throwing a grenade at an enemy who's in the next room and is aware of you being there isn't as high risk of a move.

    All of these things would help slow the game down a bit. People would have to be more deliberate in their actions. I prefer a faster movement speed and overall movement agility to be fast and responsive. However, when you slow down things like reload speed, weapon switch, among actions it makes players have to make decisions and creates a more interesting meta and actually creates a slower paced game. I'm sure the action speeds in this game were recorded with someone who was in a perfect environment with no stress and probably not even moving and attached to players who are supposed to be in a battle and likely on the move.

    Another way to slow down the game is make shooting more difficult. I like the old AA sway system, but if you are still committed to using the modern gaming sway then make it harder. Snipers shouldn't be able to be as agile as they are. In the original America's Army it was almost impossible to be a sniper on the move. Most guys were forced to prone and deploy the bipod. Very few guys were good enough at countering the sway without using their bipod. Harsher sway also makes putting a 4x scope on every rifle in a map that has mixed ranges less desirable since you'll have to fight the sway. In AAPG everyone was using 4x scopes until it had to be restricted because the game became America's Army of M4 + ACOGs.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • PredictionPrediction Posts: 134Player
    Not to be negative but the way all these ideas are being presented is a waste of effort and time. You would be better off making a bullet pointed list that gets straight to the point so the DEVs will have something to reference rather than get so detailed that the information will just end up buried with the rest of the great information giving in the past.





  • LWOF_BrOkenArrowLWOF_BrOkenArrow Posts: 378Player
    Not to be negative but the way all these ideas are being presented is a waste of effort and time. You would be better off making a bullet pointed list that gets straight to the point so the DEVs will have something to reference rather than get so detailed that the information will just end up buried with the rest of the great information giving in the past.





    It's not like these people are giving entire essays on what they want and why it should be added. So long as what they post is productive to the discussion I say let em be
    Army SROTC Cadet



    P0asKE2.jpg
  • doogle!doogle! Posts: 733Player
    ^ Prediction, we need a change/implementation management process for AA5 for sure. Ideas vetted and clearly written out for review/decision by the team in Alabama.
  • {RR}Guardian-1stTec{RR}Guardian-1stTec Posts: 5Player
    edited September 2018
    Qoute
    - I've to disagree on that, sure they find stuff and I never would say they don't but it's just not good enough.

    Edited because the player did not liked what i said

    Not good enough? They work hours and hours to get the game as good as possible. Please read into how development and testing works before you are going to post this kind of comments.
    And not everyone from the public-gamers are suited for the job as a tester, you need some basic knowledge about the game, engine and processes as an example.



    Beta Testers do a great job they are needed you only see what they missed you don't see the 1000 or so they catch and get fixed trust me I was a beta testers and they work hard.
    Sometimes it takes a full server and many hours for some bugs to be found so yes they miss some but they get the majority before a update goes out.

    I've to disagree on that, sure they find stuff and I never would say they don't but it's just not good enough. It happens again and again that they told us that something was fixed while it wasn't. For example 12 APR patch they posted "Fix for an issue where the front iron sights can get out of place", so after updating my game I join a server and start spamming right mouse button. Guess what, It was still there and not fixed, a patch later it was fixed and they didn't tell us.

    Now you can say, they might have missed it. No!, if a test build is presented to the Beta Testers with a known issue and the Devs receive a feedback that it's oke, its fixed but in reality it wasn't. Then I start saying, there is a giant problem and stuff is not being tested.

    Keep in mind, all you had to do to see if it was fixed was spamming right mouse button.

    That's why I recommanded to remove the Beta Testing team, and make a public test build which they can switch to in steam like ArmA 3 does and have it tested large scale where experienced players do what they do best and try to break the game to find issues.

  • ^MAROFEL.ANDR!C0-TTV^^MAROFEL.ANDR!C0-TTV^ Posts: 854Player
    edited September 2018
    EDIT: Out of appreciation I too removed his words here.

    Careful, you're walking a tin line there and moderators do not like that.

    Please read into how development and testing works before you are going to post this kind of comments. And not everyone from the public-gamers are suited for the job as a tester, you need some basic knowledge about the game, engine and processes as an example.

    I don't need to read into anything, normally I will not say this because personally I think it has no value in my eyes. But I've been playing games for more then 25 years, mainly shooters and competitive and also the fact that I've been playing the AA series since AA2 and have witnessed the destruction they brought on themselves over the years. I can easily say the things I've said in this thread.

    And it's not just me that is saying it, there are many people saying or thinking it. But there are not many willingly posting those thoughts here like me because they fear the outcome of retaliation against them which we have seen with the amount of forum bans in the past. Thanks to aaHollywood those bans have been removed, and rightfully so.

    So if you really think that I'm a joke (made me giggle so hard) and that I'm wrong, then why is there no Developer disagreeing with my statements, why are there no veteran gamers from this community disagreeing with my statements. I don't have to tell you this, but the stats speak for themselves.
  • Theodore_BundyTheodore_Bundy Posts: 68Player
    edited September 2018
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    With AAPG I also remember people asking for a while to get third party tracking enabled. I believe the guy who ran the original AA Tracker wanted to make one for AAPG. Never happened.

    Community, community, community, it can't be stressed enough.

    Thought the guys at AA were gonna allow sites access to stats? (not just scraping whatever tidbits they could)

    AA Tracker is closing down I see :(

    We at AAStats got access, but the problem is the data for AAPG. It's all messed up and mixed with a different game. So the statistics could not be relied upon to be accurate...
    The only remedy is to reset stats in a Seasonal-like way (think Destiny seasons).
    doogle! wrote: »
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    PUBG has a pretty good system. I assume they have internal betas, then they put out a public test build that people can play if they want to, otherwise just play the stable build. People can then provide feedback on the test build, report bugs, etc. The devs can then go back and do more work based on the feedback they receive before putting the patch out on the main/stable build.

    It would work like this:
    1) Internal alpha -> 2) Closed Beta -> 3) Public Beta -> 4) Closed Beta -> Adjust & repeat other steps as necessary -> Public Release

    Meh, unfortunately our userbase right now is so small, this would be negative for the game.

    Well that could be fixed by sponsoring their new game to major youtuber that do tactical shooters a lot and sponsoring a video or two for the new game. It will pull in a good amount of players to at least try the game.

    We agree and we plan to, I'm sure you've seen my posts on the topic. Getting artist resources to make the streamer kits (etc.), the marketing money to sponsor some, finding and sharing the ones I've found already, setting up Play With The Devs streams, etc. I'm working it all! Let's go!

    I tried talking them into doing this during the open beta of AAPG. Nobody thought it was worth the time. Meanwhile nearly every other game in the market was doing it. Hopefully it happens this time.
    Steam: usdod14
  • {RR}Guardian-1stTec{RR}Guardian-1stTec Posts: 5Player
    edited September 2018
    Previous comment edited because the player did not liked it

    Reading into the subject you are discussing about has some value, maybe not in your eyes but the way you are answering says enough.

    And good that you play 25 years, want a medal for that? And yes alot of AAPG players have play AA2 so that is not so special. and yes i did to.

    Developers, Beta-testers, veterans and others from the community spending alot of hours into this game to get it right for us. without them you could not play this game! you can disagree what you want but in my eyes they are doing a fantastic job. Note for them: Keep up the good work!

    Keep in mind this is a free to play game....



    comment edited

    Careful, you're walking a tin line there and moderators do not like that.

    Please read into how development and testing works before you are going to post this kind of comments. And not everyone from the public-gamers are suited for the job as a tester, you need some basic knowledge about the game, engine and processes as an example.

    I don't need to read into anything, normally I will not say this because personally I think it has no value in my eyes. But I've been playing games for more then 25 years, mainly shooters and competitive and also the fact that I've been playing the AA series since AA2 and have witnessed the destruction they brought on themselves over the years. I can easily say the things I've said in this thread.

    And it's not just me that is saying it, there are many people saying or thinking it. But there are not many willingly posting those thoughts here like me because they fear the outcome of retaliation against them which we have seen with the amount of forum bans in the past. Thanks to aaHollywood those bans have been removed, and rightfully so.

    So if you really think that I'm a joke (made me giggle so hard) and that I'm wrong, then why is there no Developer disagreeing with my statements, why are there no veteran gamers from this community disagreeing with my statements. I don't have to tell you this, but the stats speak for themselves.
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    With AAPG I also remember people asking for a while to get third party tracking enabled. I believe the guy who ran the original AA Tracker wanted to make one for AAPG. Never happened.

    Community, community, community, it can't be stressed enough.

    Thought the guys at AA were gonna allow sites access to stats? (not just scraping whatever tidbits they could)

    AA Tracker is closing down I see :(

    We at AAStats got access, but the problem is the data for AAPG. It's all messed up and mixed with a different game. So the statistics could not be relied upon to be accurate...
    The only remedy is to reset stats in a Seasonal-like way (think Destiny seasons).
    doogle! wrote: »
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    PUBG has a pretty good system. I assume they have internal betas, then they put out a public test build that people can play if they want to, otherwise just play the stable build. People can then provide feedback on the test build, report bugs, etc. The devs can then go back and do more work based on the feedback they receive before putting the patch out on the main/stable build.

    It would work like this:
    1) Internal alpha -> 2) Closed Beta -> 3) Public Beta -> 4) Closed Beta -> Adjust & repeat other steps as necessary -> Public Release

    Meh, unfortunately our userbase right now is so small, this would be negative for the game.

    Well that could be fixed by sponsoring their new game to major youtuber that do tactical shooters a lot and sponsoring a video or two for the new game. It will pull in a good amount of players to at least try the game.

    We agree and we plan to, I'm sure you've seen my posts on the topic. Getting artist resources to make the streamer kits (etc.), the marketing money to sponsor some, finding and sharing the ones I've found already, setting up Play With The Devs streams, etc. I'm working it all! Let's go!

    I tried talking them into doing this during the open beta of AAPG. Nobody thought it was worth the time. Meanwhile nearly every other game in the market was doing it. Hopefully it happens this time.

    I don't know how to do it but I've gotten it approved already lol
  • LWOF_BrOkenArrowLWOF_BrOkenArrow Posts: 378Player

    Keep in mind this is a free to play game....





    True, players do not have to spend money upfront to play the game; however, it's not as if the Army isn't financially supporting the game. Not to mention that the community -- regardless of what monetary contributions they've maid to the AA franchise -- has played a huge part in AAs success. If not for their constant support over the decade (spritually?) the AA series probably would've been discontinued a long time ago.
    Army SROTC Cadet



    P0asKE2.jpg
  • Sr.GatilhoSr.Gatilho Posts: 51Player
    Ok next AA: No supported,No suppression,No aim-punch,No screen shake,No jump and vault in the same key,No accuraccy cone,No random recoil..
  • Previous comment edited because the player did not liked it

    Honestly I couldn't care less that you said it, made me laugh actually. But then again if you were active in this community like us then you would have known you broke the forum rules by saying it, that's why I warned you to be careful and that you were walking a tin line and the moderators do not like that.

    I appreciate that you change that line, so I'll do the same..

    Developers, Beta-testers, veterans and others from the community spending alot of hours into this game to get it right for us.

    You are completely right, as I'm part of, as you said it "others from the community " we do indeed spend a lot of hours into this game. Me personally I spend close to 30 to 40 hours a week into the game if I have the time for it and when I find issues I'll report it. I've been in contact with Tear and aaHollywood reporting back to them with the lagg spike issues hoping they find something useful so they try find a fix for it.

    But let's be honest with each other here, you literally made your forum profile today to take a shot at me because someone we both know that is also a Beta Tester got upset and talked about it with you guys. And I get it, my personal opinion was to remove Beta testers for AAV and have the entire community test the build before it go's live and that Beta Testers reported back that something was fixed while it wasn't and the Devs added that in the patch note. It made some people upset including the person we both know and you feel like you need to defend his honor. I salute you for that. But lets not forget that this topic is about what we want to have, what we should have and what we can do better in AAV, and that includes having a test build open to the public so that more bugs, more glitches and more issues overall can be found and fixed before it go's live.
  • `xinoN`xinoN Posts: 359Player
    edited September 2018
    Sr.Gatilho wrote: »
    Ok next AA: No supported,No suppression,No aim-punch,No screen shake,No jump and vault in the same key,No accuraccy cone,No random recoil..

    Partly agree however I think there's room for some kind of support. Accuracy cone should be there imo otherwise we're just playing with lasers with no penatly for any kind of action. No random stuff, agree on that.
    Oh well.
  • Sr.Gatilho wrote: »
    Ok next AA: No supported,No suppression,No aim-punch,No screen shake,No jump and vault in the same key,No accuraccy cone,No random recoil..

    Well, Supported position could be still in play if they use bipods again. But not like it is now so that we get sucked onto a bench. as `xinoN said we still require the accuracy cone but no random recoil.

    The part I most agree on, jump and vault on two diff keys.. The amount of auto-climbing that got me killed in PG is just painful and makes me wanna cry in a corner and never stop.

    It would also be good to have less punishment, like when you lost HP that your weapon sways 2x times more is a bit overkill next to the hit punishment. Yesterday some how I got punished by a flash and it dropped my aim down, I hope it's a bug else they silently added that too :lol:
  • MewtwoMewtwo Posts: 307Player
    if you cant reload fast just try hide you and reload then go fast to him and fire at him.you cant lose that thing.)but i notice at someone reload faster eny you??
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,621Beta Tester
    Sr.Gatilho wrote: »
    Ok next AA: No supported,No suppression,No aim-punch,No screen shake,No jump and vault in the same key,No accuraccy cone,No random recoil..

    And no guns!

    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • Hey.I.Have.A.GunHey.I.Have.A.Gun Posts: 645Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Sr.Gatilho wrote: »
    Ok next AA: No supported,No suppression,No aim-punch,No screen shake,No jump and vault in the same key,No accuraccy cone,No random recoil..

    And no guns!

    Sweet troll!

    He's mostly right.

    Supported positions, in their current form, need to go. As Z0naGaming_ said, perhaps bipods could make a comeback and people could go supported that way, but the current system is broken.

    The suppression effects are WAY over the top. A suppression effect that lets me know "Hey. I'm being shot at and the bullets are close" or "These bullets are going right over the cover I'm behind" is one thing. Being suppressed to near-blindness is quite another and is more cheesy than anything. In most cases it's just rewarding a player for missing. The grenade suppression effect is more understandable, but it still should be toned way down.

    I'm a little up-in-the-air on aim punch. Part of me wants to reward the player who lands the first shot, but I don't want that to decide the fight, either.

    Having the ability to bind jump and vault to separate keys is obvious. I've also been sucked into a lot of unintended vaults. Of course you could leave them bound to the same keys if you choose to.

    As far as removing the accuracy cone, he's wrong. Taking the time to ADS should be rewarded with accuracy. Plus I remember the days of being able to accurate hipfire across the map. It's been quite awhile since I've looked at the accuracy cone. It's possible that it could be adjusted. If I remember correctly, the cone is in effect until the ADS animation is finished. I wouldn't mind seeing the cone being reduced as the ADS animation proceeds.

    There's nothing wrong with suggesting that the recoil should be a pattern that can be learned. The real problem, as others have mentioned, is the exponentially-increasing recoil with low HP. In my opinion, the recoil, sway, etc. should remain the same regardless of player health. The penalty for having low HP is having low HP. You have to land your shots faster than the other person because you can only take a hit or two. It shouldn't be made "harder" by adding even more RNG.
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