AA5 Discussion Thread (Renamed)

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Comments

  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,161Player
    edited August 2018
    I honestly can't recall many times where I ran out of ammo in this game. Even in the original America's Army I don't think it was common.

    Picking up alternate weapons was usually for a few reasons:
    1) Picking up an automatic weapon when you have a burst
    2) Preferring a 7.62 weapon
    3) Grabbing a weapon with a massive magazine (Rpk)
    4) Picking up a specialty weapon (sniper, m203)
    5) Picking up a weapon for a few extra m203s (SF version)
    6) Picking up a weapon that has different attachments (Aimpoint vs ACOG)
    7) Having an alternate available when your magazine goes empty (faster than reload-most important)

    Needing ammo was actually kind of rare. The more unique your weapon set, the more reason opfor weapons will be picked up. When everyone is pretty much carrying the same weapons, the feature won't be used as much. Also AAPG reload speeds were so fast that secondaries weren't as important either. AAPG reload times were at speeds of someone who is speed reloading in a perfect, non-stressful, situation while not moving. Way too fast, imo, and it resulted in the opfor weapon pickup feature being underused or at least not playing enough of a role in the outcome of games.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • RollingInTheHurtRollingInTheHurt Posts: 200Player
    edited August 2018
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    I honestly can't recall many times where I ran out of ammo in this game

    +1
    AA in general has small maps, quick rounds and small player count = Never running out of ammo.
    1.jpg
  • Hey.I.Have.A.GunHey.I.Have.A.Gun Posts: 645Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    I honestly can't recall many times where I ran out of ammo in this game

    +1
    AA in general has small maps, quick rounds and small player count = Never running out of ammo.

    Right. I've had some rounds where I've either done a lot of prefiring or gotten a lot of kills that I've run out, but it's pretty rare.
  • -SD-DELTON-ACI--SD-DELTON-ACI- Posts: 1,518Player
    When I first started playing AA I joined a server and was slaughtered it was not good or fun to play with experienced players dead round after round what's the point, I see this a lot with new players they just leave and don't come back, the difference with me is I had Interdiction to go to.


    It helped me with teamwork also get used to the different guns and the recoil when I went back to a server I was able to compete against players and as you can see I am still playing AA today.
    We need something like this in AAPG and without doubt if there is going to be a AA5 we need it in that for the new players and the old of course =)
    gKQ6BB2.png
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,621Beta Tester
    Depending on where the Army wants to take this game, yeah. I'll comment as if it's staying in the genre the franchise has established.

    TRAINING
    I really think the training in AA2 was beneficial, interesting and unique. I'd like to see that again. Basic Combat Training is a must, plus whatever else compliments the game content, and I think it should be REQUIRED so we get recruits that know what to do when they get into a map.

    FACILITATE COMMUNICATION
    I don't hear a lot of analysis about why a map like Inner Hospital or Bridge is popular or fun. Here are my thoughts from personal experience: When I was just getting back into gaming, as this game went public in 2013, I was really rusty and didn't know ANYTHING, let alone the maps. I felt I didn't know where to go, what to do, how I could help the team, what typical strategies might be, etc. I've really been trying to study this, and thinking about how to make it better.

    My observations are that in a fast paced, round-based game with no planning phase, there is very little time to communicate, therefor ANYTHING that is communicated about the round needs to be concise, fast and easily identifiable. This includes locations for enemies or places to move to, defend or attack, etc. It is my opinion that this is one of the main reasons why Inner Hospital works - we have a 'friendly name' for almost every spot on the map, and someone coming in can pick it up and understand it and therefor the tactics fairly quickly. Same with something like Bridge; it's simple, easy and while there's still skill involved, at least people can understand the basics of the map.

    I think we've all seen maps where it just seems a lot harder to quickly explain to our team what we need to. I think this is a major area of improvement for ALL map makers as well as developers, and I think the payoffs for identifiable and communicatable map design and game design are huge. There are multiple ways this can be done, and we should open a broad discussion about them.

    FACILITATE LEADERSHIP
    Because of the difficulty of communication mentioned above, it's easy to have people go off and do their own thing. Sure, there are multiple impediments to communication and leadership, but I think everything should be done to minimize those and maximize ways to communicate actual tactics. Right now, we rely on standard supposedly-well known player roles (regarding defending or attacking), but have no real dynamic way of dealing with in-game tactics as a round progresses other than VOIP. Anything that takes more than a few quick words is lost in the background noise. I think some canned messages, like AA2, and maybe in-world location highlights, like maybe the current spotting as a laser pointer instead, would at least be a start. I think qualifying, or voting for squad leaders who have specific tools for communicating these things in game might be useful. These are other areas that would have huge payoffs if we can figure out how to do it without spam and abuse.

    FACILITATE LONG TERM ENGAGEMENT
    I think the first half an hour of gameplay is critical to whether or not we keep the average player. Have a poor experience? They aren't likely to come back. I really think we need to encourage some kind of beginner play on designated servers, perhaps as a training mode with no points, so that players can graduate to advanced, scored play without getting destroyed by experienced players. We've talked about this a lot, as a so-called "Mentor" program, Recruit Servers, etc, but I think this constant loss of new players is really hurting the franchise and needs to be addressed.

    GAME MECHANICS and NETCODE
    There are plenty of times where 'good players' are winning because of something other than reflexes and brains. I know for a fact (because I do it...) that understanding how the game works is exploitable. Leaning, corner geometry, gun camera position in the forehead, animation timings, ping differential....these are all things that advantage players who've either been around awhile, or understand the deeper components of the code. I think we need to design to minimize these effects better, and also attempt to teach players about them so everyone has an equal opportunity to 'exploit' them.

    It hopefully goes without saying here that adding features to the game that look cool but don't work well needs to be really well thought out before committing the development funds to them, because down the line they can cause a lot of headaches. Some examples of this are the various player position animations, including lean and Supported Position.

    I'm particularly critical of the Lean/Peek/Gun Camera tactics of game mechanic exploitation and what it did for the game (negatively) even though it's a cool feature in principle.

    ---

    Anyway, I'll leave my comments at that for now, and suggest deeper discussion on these and other topics might be useful if the Devs can commit early to what kind of game we might be seeing...

    Cheers.



    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,161Player
    edited August 2018
    When I first started playing AA I joined a server and was slaughtered it was not good or fun to play with experienced players dead round after round what's the point, I see this a lot with new players they just leave and don't come back, the difference with me is I had Interdiction to go to.


    It helped me with teamwork also get used to the different guns and the recoil when I went back to a server I was able to compete against players and as you can see I am still playing AA today.
    We need something like this in AAPG and without doubt if there is going to be a AA5 we need it in that for the new players and the old of course =)

    I'm fine with a coop mode, even R6 siege has one, but I'm sure it's nowhere near as played as the standard mode. It really comes down to resources. I can't imagine that it would be very high on the priority list at the beginning.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Player
    Came into forum expecting to see nothing of interest just like the past year or so. Found this thread - good stuff and welcome Hollywood. I'd wait three years if it means there is even a 10% chance this game lives again.

    Gameplay mechanics that would make the game successful have been discussed at length on these forums... but I think another component this game lacks is just pure marketing. If the Army wants to get this / the new game in front of people, they should do a better job. My folks were reading the newspaper one morning and saw an advertisement for a free video game... Americas Army 1.x … that is how I found the game. The newspaper example is obviously ancient. But the post referring to Twitch streamers, etc. is a good idea.... How many people who play this game would even known about it if they are not loyal returning people from former AA versions? While there are certainly a few people here and lurking the forums, I'd guess the percentage of people who played AAPG without previously playing the original AA is small -- I'd view that as a negative thing. You have a loyal fanbase who will come back... but there's also a world of people out there who are sick of respawn/pubg/cod-like garbage.

    Yup
  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,161Player
    edited August 2018
    AA should also be at the major gaming conferences. I think they used to do that back in the AAO days.

    BTW, I'm going to throw out a question. When does the Dev team think that actual work will begin on AAV? This year? Next year?
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    AA should also be at the major gaming conferences. I think they used to do that back in the AAO days.

    BTW, I'm going to throw out a question. When does the Dev team think that actual work will begin on AAV? This year? Next year?

    The money stuff would probably get worked out this year. Actual development? Don't know.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Fine, I'll bite.

    Competition based game is your only chance of survival, you've now went against that in 2 previous versions and Failed! Different games come out constantly and last less than a year. Yet the most competitive based games last the longest, Counter Strike being the best example (not the greatest game but competition keeps you playing).

    I hardly read any previous comments cause I dont care, I know this community.

    Reading about yet again remade maps makes me sick!!! If you cant design fresh maps you might as well not even start... its simple, think competition and the rest falls into place.

    ... See you again in another couple years.
    _____________________________
    #Support Comp Mode

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN4YhM6jUB2MxVj8i3b9rhw
  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,161Player
    edited August 2018
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    Reading about yet again remade maps makes me sick!!! If you cant design fresh maps you might as well not even start... its simple, think competition and the rest falls into place.

    ... See you again in another couple years.

    Remakes will bring in a good amount of old players to establish an easy player base. It would probably be foolish to remake the entire map set of the old games. However, a few of the more popular maps would be a great start. Plus some of the maps were good comp maps (considering AA2 was a quality comp game).

    However, I agree, the dev team really needs to sit down, maybe even take a look at what have made maps in other games popular, and figure out how to make good competition maps that make sense in a US Army game. Good comp maps typically also make great pub maps as well. I honestly can't remember playing any quality comp map in other games that played poorly in pub games.

    I think Keebler said in another post. Good maps should be easy to learn all of the different locations. Never too complex, fairly straight forward. One of the things I notice about R6: Siege is that people have so many different call-outs for all of the various locations. Things that people can learn with a bit of time in the game. Competitive players should be able to master maps in a way pub players may not. That's complexity in simplicity. Easy to learn, hard to master.
    Maps should have a good flow, few places where you can be flanked without making a bad mistake or losing players, good choke points, easy to rotate players from objective to objective. Even wide open outdoor maps should take a similar flow. I honestly think that huge open maps with almost an unlimited number of paths don't work in a round-based game. Some of the worst matches I remember were in maps like River Basin and Recon.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • RollingInTheHurtRollingInTheHurt Posts: 200Player
    Must be visually appealing too.
    AAPG just feels like a flood of cardboard cutout maps and dingy harry potter castle maps.
    1.jpg
  • -hyperlite--hyperlite- Posts: 104Player
    People need to realize the moment you mention anything related to catering to competition, you are just setting yourself up to be ignored. This game has always shunned the “C” word. History is enormous factor in that statement. Competition is on the complete other side of the spectrum for the direction of this game and always has been. Comp players have always tried to make what they could for what was available.

    This thread is a perfect example of how comp is treated, 3 years and nothing.

    https://forum.americasarmy.com/discussion/714/comp-mode-we-need-your-input-again
  • valid|Dropvalid|Drop Posts: 33Beta Tester
    People need to realize the moment you mention anything related to catering to competition, you are just setting yourself up to be ignored. This game has always shunned the “C” word. History is enormous factor in that statement. Competition is on the complete other side of the spectrum for the direction of this game and always has been. Comp players have always tried to make what they could for what was available.

    This thread is a perfect example of how comp is treated, 3 years and nothing.

    https://forum.americasarmy.com/discussion/714/comp-mode-we-need-your-input-again

    Its unfortunate, because Comp in AA:PG wasn't terrible. We had some good games back then, Comp Mode would have definitely provided better support towards the competition side of AA, which has always been an element to Americas Army.
  • ModtoolsModtools Posts: 282Player
    So i saw this thread, read all messages and hey why dont let a comment.

    The thing i wanted to say.
    Dont let the AA series die. Also dont change the direction for AA:V.
    AA:PG is already nice, for inexperiences players also for experienced ones.
    Create a new backgroundstory, take the functionallity and gameplay of AA:PG
    add vehicles, UAVs, perhaps helicopters, and Airsupport
    (which will be in every new game this and next year).
    Take a few older really good maps and port them into future combat athmosphere.
    Perhaps add Bot and PVE gamemode for cooperative gameplay.
    PVP gamemodes are all realised in AA:PG
    Capture the flag.
    Search and destroy.
    VIP secure.
    Activate
    Take and Hold.
    only
    Teamdeathmatch with timer.
    Battleroyale gamemode with timer.
    are missing

    there is so much potential behind AA:PG
    and it would be so easy to port it and its gamemechanics over to Unreal 4,
    which would enable to create all the new things described above.
    ALso there wouldnt be the need to create much new assets, anims and textures
    because there are already the assets from 4 games which only need to be reworked.
    Textures to be upscaled to 4K.

    Its only an idea.
    And i dont want to talk you into your decisions.
    But its the right time to create and announce a new AA.

    FOR MY PART i will be in
    as player
    as modder
    as mapper
    as community codev :proud: if we mappers and modders can call us in this way
    if also the community driven content part will be implemented too
    TONS of community made maps and content saved the live of the AA:PG game for years.
    Even after months and years of nah i wont say stagnation of updates the community is still
    present. THe same guys... ok i was abstinent long time... but even after this time the same
    2 till 400 guys are still playing and waiting for updates because they love this gameseries.

    This is only my opinion.
    But i think its worth to give it a try.
    Perhaps only port AA:PG over first to UE4
    this would be a solid base to work with.
    Early UDK support with a few good community mappers and modders
    port over some classic maps. And let it flow :pleased:

    Long talked short message.

    LET THE HOAAAAAAH NOT PEAL OUT.

    Gz Mod

    https://steamcommunity.com/id/webmapping/myworkshopfiles/?appid=203290
  • AwbeeAwbee Posts: 19Player
    Modtools wrote: »
    So i saw this thread, read all messages and hey why dont let a comment.

    The thing i wanted to say.
    Dont let the AA series die. Also dont change the direction for AA:V.
    AA:PG is already nice, for inexperiences players also for experienced ones.
    Create a new backgroundstory, take the functionallity and gameplay of AA:PG
    add vehicles, UAVs, perhaps helicopters, and Airsupport
    (which will be in every new game this and next year).
    Take a few older really good maps and port them into future combat athmosphere.
    Perhaps add Bot and PVE gamemode for cooperative gameplay.
    PVP gamemodes are all realised in AA:PG
    Capture the flag.
    Search and destroy.
    VIP secure.
    Activate
    Take and Hold.
    only
    Teamdeathmatch with timer.
    Battleroyale gamemode with timer.
    are missing

    there is so much potential behind AA:PG
    and it would be so easy to port it and its gamemechanics over to Unreal 4,
    which would enable to create all the new things described above.
    ALso there wouldnt be the need to create much new assets, anims and textures
    because there are already the assets from 4 games which only need to be reworked.
    Textures to be upscaled to 4K.

    Its only an idea.
    And i dont want to talk you into your decisions.
    But its the right time to create and announce a new AA.

    FOR MY PART i will be in
    as player
    as modder
    as mapper
    as community codev :proud: if we mappers and modders can call us in this way
    if also the community driven content part will be implemented too
    TONS of community made maps and content saved the live of the AA:PG game for years.
    Even after months and years of nah i wont say stagnation of updates the community is still
    present. THe same guys... ok i was abstinent long time... but even after this time the same
    2 till 400 guys are still playing and waiting for updates because they love this gameseries.

    This is only my opinion.
    But i think its worth to give it a try.
    Perhaps only port AA:PG over first to UE4
    this would be a solid base to work with.
    Early UDK support with a few good community mappers and modders
    port over some classic maps. And let it flow :pleased:

    Long talked short message.

    LET THE HOAAAAAAH NOT PEAL OUT.

    Gz Mod

    https://steamcommunity.com/id/webmapping/myworkshopfiles/?appid=203290

    OUTCOMES COD RIPOFF

    WE WANT SIMULATIONS, NOT A FANTASY
    A W B E E, _B L U E _ W H E L P L I N G
    C O L D A R R A, _ B O R E A N _ T U N D R A
  • ^MAROFEL.ANDR!C0-TTV^^MAROFEL.ANDR!C0-TTV^ Posts: 854Player
    edited August 2018
    vDrop wrote: »
    Its unfortunate, because Comp in AA:PG wasn't terrible. We had some good games back then

    What comp? those couple clan matches and self made cups that turned into dust?
    Nah, comp scene was a little fire that never got big in this game.

    Modtools wrote: »
    Battleroyale gamemode with timer.

    No, get lost.. We don't want BR, or need BR.. Unless you want the game to fail.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    People need to realize the moment you mention anything related to catering to competition, you are just setting yourself up to be ignored. This game has always shunned the “C” word. History is enormous factor in that statement. Competition is on the complete other side of the spectrum for the direction of this game and always has been. Comp players have always tried to make what they could for what was available.

    This thread is a perfect example of how comp is treated, 3 years and nothing.

    https://forum.americasarmy.com/discussion/714/comp-mode-we-need-your-input-again

    COMP MODE !!! ahhh where art thou, my comp mode ??? WHERE ???

    devs be like.. "where is that ignore button", "whatever lets just add supported position and tons of suppression, the pub scene will love us"

    Ohh lets check the charts for fun shall we?

    https://steamcharts.com/app/203290

    yup similar to what AA3 had at the time of its miserable ending, whats worse is that most of those players I bet are EU.


    _____________________________
    #Support Comp Mode

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN4YhM6jUB2MxVj8i3b9rhw
  • -R@MPAGE--R@MPAGE- Posts: 151Player
    For the love of god, don’t add BR into the game. You will make yourself look pathetic and desperate. Focus on creating your own niche in the FPS market.

    I am not even a comp player, nor do I think I ever will/want to be, but why not create a mode that is specific to competitive matches? The good ole days when TWL or whatever was around needs to come back. If you simply just focus on the pub matches and forget about the competitive aspect then the next game will fall flat on its face. I think this community has made that very apparent.
    image
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 372Player
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    People need to realize the moment you mention anything related to catering to competition, you are just setting yourself up to be ignored. This game has always shunned the “C” word. History is enormous factor in that statement. Competition is on the complete other side of the spectrum for the direction of this game and always has been. Comp players have always tried to make what they could for what was available.

    This thread is a perfect example of how comp is treated, 3 years and nothing.

    https://forum.americasarmy.com/discussion/714/comp-mode-we-need-your-input-again

    COMP MODE !!! ahhh where art thou, my comp mode ??? WHERE ???

    devs be like.. "where is that ignore button", "whatever lets just add supported position and tons of suppression, the pub scene will love us"

    Ohh lets check the charts for fun shall we?

    https://steamcharts.com/app/203290

    yup similar to what AA3 had at the time of its miserable ending, whats worse is that most of those players I bet are EU.


    I think between private lobbies (and settings), clan tags, and open/third-party stats you can go a long way towards calling it a Comp Mode.
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