AA5 Discussion Thread (Renamed)

Whiplash27Whiplash27 Posts: 1,822Player
edited August 16 in General Discussion
No one will agree with what would work, but for fun, let's build what the few of us remaining here would want in what we believe would be the most awesome version of AA5. It may never happen, but we can dream.

I'll just throw out some of my thoughts.
  1. Engine - UE4, nothing more to be said
  2. Gunplay - Similar to AAPG. I think AAPG actually does a way better job than a lot of games. Gun play is actually fairly challenging especially for a game that doesn't have CS style recoil patterns. I can compare AAPG gun play to PUBG and I think AAPG is more difficult. If I were to change anything it would be the sway/hold breath type patterns. Go back to how AA2 was with the predictable and harsh breathing pattern. Sniping was very challenging with that type of setup. Only the best players could snipe without being at least crouched if not prone and supported.
  3. Gunplay/Ballistics - PUBG has them in UE4, so it's certainly possible. I know AA maps are typically not not huge, but outdoor maps would benefit from it.
  4. Movement - More fluid than AAPG. Player movement shouldn't feel sluggish at all. Obviously we need to keep it in the realm of reality, but the best players typically have an amazing ability to control their character in ways that your lesser players cannot. Restricting movement only leads to restricting the skill curve.
  5. Squads - 13 v 13. Two fire teams (4+4), 1 squad leader (1), Sniper + Spotter (rifleman) + 2 more riflemen (or an additional sniper pairing) or a 3rd squad depending on the map= 13
  6. Squads (Cont.) - Game starts with 1 Fireteam. When player #5 joins, Fireteam 2 + Squad leader open up. Depending on the map, the sniper/spotter can open up before the two fireteams are filled. Indoor and CQB maps should have just an extra squad rifleman rather than a sniper.
  7. Maps - Start with the best AA maps. AAO/2: McKenna, Pipeline, Urban Assault, Insurgent Camp, Dusk, Radio Tower, Weapons Cache, Weapons Cache SE, CSAR. AA3 - Impact, Alley, Ranch. AAPG - ?? Three Kings & Downtown with a non-training look maybe? Maybe not all of them, but whatever actually works and plays well. Once these maps have made it into the game, start creating brand new maps.
  8. Maps (Cont.) - No BDX or FLO. All server sizes play all maps. Maps should either be small enough to play with a small server or if not, they should be dynamic and cut parts of the map off when the server sizes are limited.
  9. Maps (Cont. 2) To make things more unique, each map should have specialized gear that assault/defense can use that's tailored to the map.
  10. Maps (Cont. 3) All maps should have a story and an Army division tailored to that map. Additionally, if that division uses unique weaponry, it should be included. If that division does not use certain types of weaponry or attachments, they should be excluded.
  11. Medical - No medics. When a player bleeds, they receive bleed damage (like now). A player can bandage himself, once he does so the bleeding speed reduces greatly and the max bleed damage decreases. Once bandaged, max bleed damage over time is the lesser of bleed damage incurred or 1 hp (player cannot die if they bandage themselves). A teammate can heal the player to stop bleeding.
  12. Downed players - All players can stabilize critically injured, but not dead teammates. These players cannot return to the battle.
  13. Team play points - By performing team play actions, teams can accumulate team points. Examples of these may be stabilizing downed teammates, securing downed enemies, healing teammates (friendly fire reduces team points to prevent abuse), securing objectives. These points can be used later in the game to activate squad perks.
  14. Squad perks - Not meant to make the team super human. Activates through the use of squad points, they could be something like helicopter support, humvee or tank support, maybe a controllable drone to spy on the enemy's positions. or some other interesting gadgets. They would be controlled by the squad leader. If one is not available, then the first team fire team leader. If he's not available then second team fire team leader and down the line. These perks can greatly change the course of a round, so a team that builds them up throughout the course of the game can possible turn the tide of the game.
  15. Weapons - US Army standard + NATO standard. AA has always suffered from a kind of weak loadout. Instead, let's add in US equivalents from our NATO allies. This would add in some variety. Bring back M320 depending on the map. Same goes for rocket launchers and things of that nature. All map specific.
  16. Attachments - As much as exists should be there. Suppressor, M320, bipods, etc. In order to not make players just pimp out their gun, the amount of attachments should be restricted. Players should have to choose only a couple attachments that fit their play style. Each attachment should have pros and cons.
  17. General Load outs - I kind of liked the AA3 ability of choosing a light/medium/heavy loadout. Let players choose their armor type, quantity of ammo, quantity of grenades. Light/medium/heavy, the rest is chosen for you. Load outs can affect your running speed, how quickly you die, etc. Load out should also vary by map and fit into the general story of the map. For example, no grenades a map because the fear of blowing up volatile explosives in the area.
  18. Training - Training should follow you as a player from basic training through special forces like the original. Players should experience different types of roles/divisions within the Army and be educated on them. Medic training and weapon specialization training are also important. A player can jump into the game with a standard M16/M4 loadout, but cannot use other weapons or attachments without completing training.
  19. Round times - Somewhere around 4 minute rounds I would say should be the standard. Even the old AAO maps could be completed in that amount of time as long as people weren't sitting around doing nothing for 5 minutes.
  20. Ranking System - Use real life ranks. Honor can also be included as a basis for when you reach each new rank. A progression system would be nice. Not sure what it would be tied to.
  21. Admin tools - well built, user friendly, lots of options
  22. Tournament mode - Need not be too fancy, but just look at other games or even AA2. Give the competitive community a built in tournament mode from day one and you have less problems.
  23. Demorec - See above. Having a tournament mode and demorec on day 1 would help prevent having a competitive player revolt early on in the game's life
  24. Customization - Allow for lots of it. If you want to get fancy, tie it to special forces.
  25. Netcode - Needs to be really good. PUBG is an example of how a game can rise and then fall hard due to its awful netcode.
  26. Funding - Is there any way there can get more funds for development? Outsourcing to a 3rd party to allow charging for the game? Donations? Honor server charges? Whatever it is, the development would need more money!
  27. Linux Version - UE4 supposedly makes this easier with Vulkan API support.
You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
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Comments

  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 555Player
    TL;DR
    AAPG is good!
  • frankoffrankof Posts: 905Moderator
    L:DR. (long, did read ;) )

    I wouldnt mind a game like that, but i dont know how the Army looks at making yet another game along the same line.
    ss_4_frankof.png
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,154Player
    If my memory serves me correctly (probably not) then I thought AA5 was gonna be a world of tanks like game?
    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • Whiplash27Whiplash27 Posts: 1,822Player
    If my memory serves me correctly (probably not) then I thought AA5 was gonna be a world of tanks like game?

    I thought that was a separate project? I'm not even sure if that's going to be a public game.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • Whiplash27Whiplash27 Posts: 1,822Player
    edited August 6
    frankof wrote: »
    L:DR. (long, did read ;) )

    I wouldnt mind a game like that, but i dont know how the Army looks at making yet another game along the same line.

    It's a good point, unfortunately, the Army has never tried making a modern version of the original America's Army which was so successful. AA3 & AAPG were way too different compared to the original. I've also thought that maybe a respawn based game could work, but if a game's called America's Army and it's so drastically different vs. what came before it, will people even give it a chance? Hard to say. In the end, we may never see another America's Army video game.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • ModtoolsModtools Posts: 278Player
    but perhaps some additions to the old AAPG :) who knows
  • LWOF_BrOkenArrowLWOF_BrOkenArrow Posts: 210Player
    Sort of reminds me of Battlefield and COD.

    I like your ideas, but I don't think Squad Leader should be a spot available to just anybody (otherwise people would fight over it, just like the sniper class in PS4). NCO's are typically Squad Leaders (not saying that NCO's are only, squad leaders) so I'm thinking only grades E-4 and above can be a Squad Leader. You don't select the spot, instead a random NCO is selected, however rank plays a part in the likelihood of being picked, along with how long it's been since the last time you were a Squad Leader.

    As far as the Support Goes, I think the Squad Leader should have to radio in support. When s/he does this, they'll pull out their radio/communication device and call in the requested support (whether it be an ammo crate, airstrike, or reinforcements} During this time, they'll be vulnerable to attack, and will also become a high priority target. The length of the call depends on the cost of Team Points/Tactical Points.

    What PS4 needs right now are private matches. There are many AA clans on PS4, and I'm sure they'd like a reasonable way to compete with each other. Just the other day I walked in on a "super clan war" (there were like 5 clans]. Once again, it's quite an inconvenience for these clans, having to use public lobbies just for a chance to compete against each other.
    Amateurs try until they can get it right, Professionals keep trying until they can't get it wrong



    P0asKE2.jpg
  • Whiplash27Whiplash27 Posts: 1,822Player
    edited August 9
    Sort of reminds me of Battlefield and COD.

    I like your ideas, but I don't think Squad Leader should be a spot available to just anybody (otherwise people would fight over it, just like the sniper class in PS4). NCO's are typically Squad Leaders (not saying that NCO's are only, squad leaders) so I'm thinking only grades E-4 and above can be a Squad Leader. You don't select the spot, instead a random NCO is selected, however rank plays a part in the likelihood of being picked, along with how long it's been since the last time you were a Squad Leader.

    I remember BF2 or 3 (can't remember which) had a commander who had an overhead view of the match. It was certainly interesting. Although I'd say that the Squad Leader wouldn't be such a person. One of the things I'd really want out of an AA5 is more unique aspects to each role. It was one of the weaknesses to AAO/2 & AA3 in that unless you chose one of the unique weapon classes (sniper, grenadier, AR) you never really had much of a difference between any of the riflemen. SQL, FTL, or regular Rifleman (except medic) really were no different except the squad leaders got a few different radio commands. In AA3 they tried to make it so the squad leader and fireteam leaders could put points of attack/defend on the map, but that didn't really do too much either. You'd have to figure out a way to give them some unique abilities during real gameplay.

    In the original two AA games, the Squad Leader was just a way of getting more points, so people never really fought over it except those who were trying to boost their honor level. I could see if there was a utility to the SQL spot people may fight over it a bit more since a bad squad leader could spell trouble for the team if they use their squad points in a bad way. I'd definitely agree to restrict it to players of a certain rank, although that would be difficult at launch.

    BTW, another thing that I'll throw out there for an AA5 would be a Linux version since AAPG never had it. I hear it's much easier to pull off in UE4, especially with the Vulkan API that UE4 supports.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • LWOF_BrOkenArrowLWOF_BrOkenArrow Posts: 210Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »


    I remember BF2 or 3 (can't remember which) had a commander who had an overhead view of the match. It was certainly interesting. Although I'd say that the Squad Leader wouldn't be such a person. One of the things I'd really want out of an AA5 is more unique aspects to each role. It was one of the weaknesses to AAO/2 & AA3 in that unless you chose one of the unique weapon classes (sniper, grenadier, AR) you never really had much of a difference between any of the riflemen. SQL, FTL, or regular Rifleman (except medic) really were no different except the squad leaders got a few different radio commands. In AA3 they tried to make it so the squad leader and fireteam leaders could put points of attack/defend on the map, but that didn't really do too much either. You'd have to figure out a way to give them some unique abilities during real gameplay.

    In the original two AA games, the Squad Leader was just a way of getting more points, so people never really fought over it except those who were trying to boost their honor level. I could see if there was a utility to the SQL spot people may fight over it a bit more since a bad squad leader could spell trouble for the team if they use their squad points in a bad way. I'd definitely agree to restrict it to players of a certain rank, although that would be difficult at launch.

    The game you're thinking of is BF4. The Commander mode is kind of interesting, but is also pretty lame. Especially on PS3.


    Perhaps SQL and FTL could designate priority targets, and assets using the spot feature. If they spot an enemy, the enemy is marked with a red diamond and appears on the screen for a short time. Killing enemies which are marked or have been marked by either the SQL or FTL will award two-three times the normal points. Assets include objectives, downed team-mates, and the VIP. When an SQL or FTL marks and objective, it will start to flash and an indicator will appear showing where it is. Similar to what happens when the flag is dropped or unequipped.

    Amateurs try until they can get it right, Professionals keep trying until they can't get it wrong



    P0asKE2.jpg
  • Hey.I.Have.A.GunHey.I.Have.A.Gun Posts: 492Player
    Perhaps SQL and FTL could designate priority targets, and assets using the spot feature. If they spot an enemy, the enemy is marked with a red diamond and appears on the screen for a short time. Killing enemies which are marked or have been marked by either the SQL or FTL will award two-three times the normal points. Assets include objectives, downed team-mates, and the VIP. When an SQL or FTL marks and objective, it will start to flash and an indicator will appear showing where it is. Similar to what happens when the flag is dropped or unequipped.

    I don't agree with in-world spotting, although it's a lot better in AAPG than it was in open beta when the spot followed players who went behind cover. I could see having show up on the mini-map. Did AA2 eventually have something where leaders could "spot" (essentially mark) a spot on the map by pushing a button?

    I could see a user-made mark being visible in-world. I also believe that the defending team should only know where the flag/intel is when they have eyes-on it. As it sits right now, you can tell, as a defender, if the other team leaves the flag in spawn, because for some absurd reason it shows up on your screen.
  • Hey.I.Have.A.GunHey.I.Have.A.Gun Posts: 492Player
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    • Netcode - Needs to be really good. PUBG is an example of how a game can rise and then fall hard due to its awful netcode.

    This is very important. Every time I've tried to go back to playing PUBG, this is why I've stopped. While I've had issues with AAPG's netcode, including well-documented failures in bullet registration, it's nowhere near as bad as PUBG's.
  • doogle!doogle! Posts: 502Player
    TLDR; special load outs would be a start for specific roles.


    I re-watched several of the DEV podcasts recently. I think there needs to be major changes in personnel before anything positive can happen with this series. In several episodes, they reference changes and implementations so willy nilly. There's a high sense of haphazardly development and I'm surprised they are (were) even talking like that knowing how brutal the community can be. They talk about how if something doesn't work, it's not a big deal because they aren't trying to score high ratings. (While this may be true, the problem is we see updates so infrequently that it actually makes me mad that this mentality exists within the team). This kind of talk leads me to believe that there is a strong lack of direction, leadership and accountability inside Army Game Studios. Maybe it's a funding issue, maybe there's some Retired On Active Duty Col running the show. Maybe there's a contractor getting fat pockets with minimal production. I don't know what the issue is, but I know what I'd do.
  • nL^Z0naGaming_nL^Z0naGaming_ Posts: 610Player
    I agree with doogle, over the years we lost faith in the Devs from this Army Studio. Personally I think they should use a set % of the funding that they still have into contracting a game studio. I mean look at New World Interactive that is pushing out Insurgency: Sandstorm soon, if you ask me that's how AAPG should have looked like by now. And they used UE4, never to late to ask some support from the outside.
    Steam - YouTube - Twitch

    Prepare for change, we got aaHollywood back on the range.
  • RollingInTheHurtRollingInTheHurt Posts: 144Player
    Step 1) Take AA v2.6 base code.
    Step 2) Upgrade engine, fix bugs, improve lighting, textures.
    Step 3) Release to Public.

    It's really that simple to make a great game.
    35d2uec.png
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 244Developer
    doogle! wrote: »
    I re-watched several of the DEV podcasts recently. I think there needs to be major changes in personnel before anything positive can happen with this series. In several episodes, they reference changes and implementations so willy nilly. There's a high sense of haphazardly development and I'm surprised they are (were) even talking like that knowing how brutal the community can be. They talk about how if something doesn't work, it's not a big deal because they aren't trying to score high ratings. (While this may be true, the problem is we see updates so infrequently that it actually makes me mad that this mentality exists within the team). This kind of talk leads me to believe that there is a strong lack of direction, leadership and accountability inside Army Game Studios. Maybe it's a funding issue, maybe there's some Retired On Active Duty Col running the show. Maybe there's a contractor getting fat pockets with minimal production. I don't know what the issue is, but I know what I'd do.

    You are not wrong. Things are changing. Being free should not be used as an excuse.
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 244Developer
    I agree with doogle, over the years we lost faith in the Devs from this Army Studio. Personally I think they should use a set % of the funding that they still have into contracting a game studio. I mean look at New World Interactive that is pushing out Insurgency: Sandstorm soon, if you ask me that's how AAPG should have looked like by now. And they used UE4, never to late to ask some support from the outside.

    We outsourced before and got AA3. /js

    UE4 is pretty great /wink wink
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 244Developer
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    It's a good point, unfortunately, the Army has never tried making a modern version of the original America's Army which was so successful. AA3 & AAPG were way too different compared to the original. I've also thought that maybe a respawn based game could work, but if a game's called America's Army and it's so drastically different vs. what came before it, will people even give it a chance? Hard to say. In the end, we may never see another America's Army video game.

    Gamers will find good games, whether they match the past or not. And the goal of our games will always be to put eyes on US Army IP and we will go to any gametype or platform to make that happen.

    You will see another America's Army video game.
  • aaHollywoodaaHollywood Posts: 244Developer
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    If my memory serves me correctly (probably not) then I thought AA5 was gonna be a world of tanks like game?

    I thought that was a separate project? I'm not even sure if that's going to be a public game.

    Separate project
  • Whiplash27Whiplash27 Posts: 1,822Player
    edited August 15
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    It's a good point, unfortunately, the Army has never tried making a modern version of the original America's Army which was so successful. AA3 & AAPG were way too different compared to the original. I've also thought that maybe a respawn based game could work, but if a game's called America's Army and it's so drastically different vs. what came before it, will people even give it a chance? Hard to say. In the end, we may never see another America's Army video game.

    Gamers will find good games, whether they match the past or not. And the goal of our games will always be to put eyes on US Army IP and we will go to any gametype or platform to make that happen.

    You will see another America's Army video game.

    I like this aaHollywood guy =)
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 555Player
    When Doc showed up we heard the same. "Hype, hype, promise, change". Now 3-5 people in my steam list are playing it. Sometimes. So, no credit till he delivers.
    AAPG is good!
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