The future of anti-cheat: dedicated peripherals?

SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
edited April 2015 in eSports
GameRef.io



This little guy sits between your mouse & your PC. It communicates with its own server via a dedicated ethernet port. If what your mouse input says should happen disagrees with what your PC says you did in game, you're in trouble! There are many categories of cheat this could very effectively shut down.


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Comments

  • ddra-ddra- Posts: 453Player
    I can see this being made mandatory for larger prize money tournaments.
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  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    edited April 2015
    If you'd force that as requirement for online competition you'd either have to hand it out for free to all the players or make it easily affordable at least. Also this only gets rid of mouse macros and really obvious aimbots that every demo (AAPG demorec hype!) catches it seems like? And if I'm correct mouse macros are less of a problem than other cheats (mouse macros are sadly a huge issue in AAPG recently but I heard that VAC is pretty good at detecting macros like that). Not sure if I'm allowed to go in-depht on cheats because of the forum rules but any kind of wallhack would still be possible and also even some kind of minor aimbots if I'm understanding this correctly. So yeah, looks very nice but I don't think it would change too much about cheating in competition. 

    Edit: Visited their site and the sum up what I said pretty good: "The prototype catches 100% of input-based hacks.". Sadly input-based hacks are just a minor issue imo. 
  • =IK=SgtBadazz=IK=SgtBadazz Posts: 160Player
    Looks pretty cool but I wonder if it would introduce any kind of input lag. Regardless, signed up to be a possible beta. Thanks for the info!
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    Forum rules prevent me from detailing what, specifically, it would combat. Anything that would fake player input is covered and that's actually a lot more than you list. You also wouldn't necessarily need to make it free or low-cost. Lots of players would happily pay an admission fee to be in a more secure environment. ESEA & their admission fees are proof of that.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    edited April 2015
    BCPull said:

    Forum rules prevent me from detailing what, specifically, it would combat. Anything that would fake player input is covered and that's actually a lot more than you list. You also wouldn't necessarily need to make it free or low-cost. Lots of players would happily pay an admission fee to be in a more secure environment. ESEA & their admission fees are proof of that.

    Do you know about the recent cheating of KQLY in CS:GO and how it worked? Because this is what I was thinking about when saying that this thing looks nice but wouldn't work well for competition. You could probably get rid of tons of cheaters on public because they are mostly using some poor cheats but since the website is advertising that box for CS:GO I can assure you that none of the pro players would use a cheat being detected by that box. 
    I'd probably "happily" spend up to 20€ for that box but knowing that there are still ways to cheat even with having the box is not really convincing me to spend any money on it. 
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    Yeah, KQLY and all of that was interesting. Brief recap for everyone else -- every 10th shot, if his aim was "close" to an enemy, it would magically get pushed "close enough" for a headshot. That kind of alteration is meant to be incredibly subtle. Subtlety also means less disruptive. However, even in that case, the program was stepping in and inserting input that KQLY hadn't made (unless it was affecting client-side random recoil; I can't recall if the game was server-side at that point or not). This is meant to catch even that kind of subtle cheat!

    Of course pros wouldn't use anything it could detect. On the other hand, the kinds of things it would be bad at detecting would be easier for an admin to see while watching players' screens.

    If nothing else, I hope they do well because I lack faith in software solutions. Hardware could be much harder to work & develop around.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    Well, can this magic box detect manipulated packages? From what I've seen on their website it doesn't seem like it can. KQLY was also loading the cheat by logging into steam since it was already pre-setup in his steam workshop. 

    Admins watching screens is only done on LANs for popular games though, so online competition wouldn't be covered. Also if I'm correct about this box not being able to do anything about manipulated packages, this will stay the "best" way to cheat without admins noticing anything even when watching the screens. A similar cheat was used by a german pro player called "smn" who after getting caught leaked all the information about how he did it (think I'm not allowed to link the interview with him since it's about cheats but you'll find it if you are interested, it's a good read). 

    Yes, hardware would be great since software is always just a matter of time until the cheat goes undetected again but I think hardware would only work on public and I don't think you can force this box for public. 
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    You don't need to detect the manipulated package or any software, that's its big advantage. Anything the cheat does to change your point of aim will be detected because the mouse didn't send the signal itself.

    Anything that doesn't affect your aim or input isn't covered by this, that would be its shortcoming. You're completely right on that front. On the other hand, this is a way more comprehensive approach than software to managing anything affecting input.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    Well, a manipulated package is not changing your point of aim as far as I know which would mean it's undetected by that box, right? And this is currently the only way of cheating in competition speaking of LAN events (I think at least). According to the website the box is supposed to prevent cheating on LANs so I'm kinda confused about that. Maybe I'm lacking on knowledge about how these kind of cheats are working (everything I know is from articles and videos about the recent CS:GO cheating scandales) and the box will actually detect them, that would be pretty awesome then. But then again, it's only for LAN events :(
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    The "manipulated package" was just their fancy way of downloading a cheat without getting caught. Once there, it's not intrinsically any different from any other cheat.

    Now the majors require that players check in all of their hardware for inspection and the way content is transferred from their Steam accounts to the PCs is also handled by event admins.

    It may get marketed as an alternative matchmaking community, like ESEA or ESL, and market itself as a "safe" place to play. That'd probably be their best bet at mass market outside of LAN events.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    Think we aren't talking about the same when referring to "manipulated packages" then. I was talking about the cheats incercepting the packages a player's game would send to the server and manipulate those so the server thinks he hit the enemy when on his screen he actually was off by a millimeter for example (aka silent aimbots). 

    The biggest issue right now is "throwing for skins" I guess. Pretty sad tbh..

    Yeah, they should probably try to go with that even though it's gonna be risky. 
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Detecting 50% of cheats is better than none
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  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    Making someone pay for something that is 50% working is a questionable policy though. I don't see people using the kind of cheats this could prevent on LANs. You would have to be really stupid to use input-based cheats on a LAN but yeah, there are people being that stupid apparently. 
    I'm kinda questioning that this box detects more cheats than current anti-cheat tools are already doing (speaking of LANs with admins watching/demorecs since they are advertising their product for LANs). Maybe someone can PM me the exact kind of cheats that this box can prevent since it's probably against forum rules to go that in-depht on cheats here. Pretty curious about this though, maybe I can learn something new :)
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,186Player
    Cheats and cheating both suck especially in online multiplayer games, only unskilled fools choose to walk down that path. I feel sorry for them that they feel they have to play that way.

    "Cheaters never win, Winners never cheat."
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  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Its not entirely true, as much as I hate to see "pro" and "cheats" in the same sentence, one and the other do go in hand.. these guys even without these hacks are very good players, the slight hack gives them the advantage to win.. when you play for money they seem to think its worth the risk. (talking cs pro's obviously)

    I agree its pathetic, but its what some of these guys do for a living (for a short period of time anyways) 

    .. the day we can all play fair is a pipe dream the way I see it.

    Even some of the recent players being caught or accused of hacking in AA are good players that feel they need that slight edge to win all the time. 
    _____________________________
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  • -=}WoLvErInE{=--=}WoLvErInE{=- Posts: 1,121Beta Tester
    edited April 2015
    I really don't understand why stuff like this is allowed to be posted here. Since when has promoting cheating become acceptable? 


    It's pretty much saying hey look a new way of cheating...GO GET IT! 
    ~X(


    EDIT: Before anyone says anything , yes, I know what it is. To be clear, My point was the word cheat or anything associated with it, should be left out.

    Because peoples minds start to wonder, and thats how problems start. Personally, they should left for PM's
  • TheTotsTheTots Posts: 2,279Player
    edited April 2015
    Unfortunately Wolverine is correct. Every time a topic discussing banned programs or exploits is discussed you are really just opening the door for people to Google it and get it for themselves.



    As always just report any suspected foul-play to us and we will look into it.



    While this may seem heavy handed, you will just have to trust me. I've seen this happen at numerous games I've worked on over the last 7 years. Someone posts a thread about an exploit or unfair program, and the next day we have a spike in people using these things.
    The game wasn't made exactly to my specifications, so I feel it's broken.

This discussion has been closed.