ESL Summer Cup 2015 (EU)

PhilippovichPhilippovich Posts: 218Player
Hey folks

the summer cup is upon us. Read the whole new here:
http://play.eslgaming.com/new-games/pc/news/257156

I hope a lot of teams will join for some good matches over the summer.
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Comments

  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    so the fact that Im born in Poland qualifies my NA team to join? yes and thank you :expressionless:
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  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    yes sir
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    #Support Comp Mode

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  • -vR.cialone!--vR.cialone!- Posts: 121Player
    That explains A LOT
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    explains the skill ...Woot
    _____________________________
    #Support Comp Mode

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  • Dem@nDem@n Posts: 564Player
    edited June 2015
  • -vR.cialone!--vR.cialone!- Posts: 121Player
    Phil, I hope you'll be casting at least some of these?
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    For that to happen people should try to stick to the dates. The esl spring cup was delayed by more than 2 weeks from a single match up multiple times. We played our last 3 matches in 1,5 week and Phil missed the lower bracket finals because we had to play it that fast and he was probably not at home or something.
    Sure there is real-life and we are encountering that same problem of a player missing for a week now but I highly doubt that 2 teams can't play a match for more than 2 weeks.
    At least the spring cup now matches with the devs understanding of spring.
  • SSKtidididiSSKtidididi Posts: 171Player
    edited June 2015
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    yes sir

    High five then, i didn't know. Feel free to join and speak ;)
    cK^KILL@ wrote: »
    For that to happen people should try to stick to the dates. The esl spring cup was delayed by more than 2 weeks from a single match up multiple times. We played our last 3 matches in 1,5 week and Phil missed the lower bracket finals because we had to play it that fast and he was probably not at home or something.
    Sure there is real-life and we are encountering that same problem of a player missing for a week now but I highly doubt that 2 teams can't play a match for more than 2 weeks.
    At least the spring cup now matches with the devs understanding of spring.

    The problem of delay in time, in Spring Cup and any other competitions, is just a losers bracket. You lose, you BB. Simple.

    Cup takes too much time instead of quick 1.5 month. One round, one week, without loser bracket.

  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    edited June 2015
    I actually like the double elimination and our win over a winner bracket finalist just proved that. But you are right, my impression was (as bad as it sounds) that the rather bad teams would not care about the cup after loosing once in the upper bracket.

    I just checked and there is a match that was delayed by more than 20 days. If teams don't want to play they shouldn't sign up IMO, whether you win or lose at least have the dignity to play until the end.
  • [1stCav]QuePasa^[1stCav]QuePasa^ Posts: 38Player
    Double Elimination is fine, Opt-ins were the real issue of the delay here. Well... what I'd like to see are weekly one-day-cups. :)
  • SSKtidididiSSKtidididi Posts: 171Player
    edited June 2015
    In middle AA2 times Polish scene was divided into 4 divisions on ESL platform. It was a typical league mode, like in football- Super League, Second League, Third League nad Fourth League- with promotions and relegations.

    League >>> cup specially now, when the number of comp teams is really small.

    But the main problem is really really really low competition level, league will be really fast dominated by one of the teams. Totally dominated and next rounds will not have any sense. Cups makes a chance for lower skilled teams, it is not a big chance but bigger than in the league mode.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    edited June 2015
    Double Elimination is fine, Opt-ins were the real issue of the delay here. Well... what I'd like to see are weekly one-day-cups. :)

    Opt-ins won't delay a match by 3 weeks. Weekly one-day-cup sounds like weekend cups right? Not sure if that's a good idea, I personally wouldn't really want to spend my weekend with playing a cup.
    In middle AA2 times Polish scene was divided into 4 divisions on ESL platform. It was a typical league mode, like in football- Super League, Second League, Third League nad Fourth League- with promotions and relegations.

    League >>> cup specially now, when the number of comp teams is really small.

    But the main problem is really really really low competition level, league will be really fast dominated by one of the teams. Totally dominated and next rounds will not have any sense. Cups makes a chance for lower skilled teams, it is not a big chance but bigger than in the league mode.

    Also not entirely true at least for the ESL cups. ESL cup brackets are determined by the ladder standings, 1st and 2nd place can't meet up until the finals with how the cup is designed. However for the spring cup that system got screwed up with Lucky13 and Mortiferus leaving the cup so that the bracket was arguable easier for some teams.
  • PhilippovichPhilippovich Posts: 218Player
    tl;dr. : We will try to have more more smooth Summer league. I will cast games if the scheduling can be done earlier. Any ideas of a way to reduce crashes?

    Alright alright.

    Leagues are better for lower level team. As they will not have to fight top seed in the first round and bye-bye. Try to think of somebody else then yourself Tididididi, nobody think it is fun to be kicked out of a league after one game - and having to wait an other 2 or 3 month for the next one to start. The game is after all a place for most people to enjoy themselves. Which is also why I think it is ridiculous that high level teams go and crush a lower level team 32-0 - this will in no way motivate new teams to come and play comp. And if you want to be a high level team, then you should be the first to promote the game to have a 100 teams "under you".

    Yes - I intend to cast more of the games. But I also need longer notice then 12 hours -which for some players seems hard to understand at time. Sorry to break it to you all, but my life is not around casting or even AAPG (I might convince myself is I say this enough times).
    Scheduling is key, if we want to have more cast. And for the spring cup, it just wasn't the case. Some matches had long response time from both teams. An other factor was that when a match finally got scheduled for an evening then teams were terrible at being on time, which truly demotivates me. If you know there is a match at 21.00 - then all players need to be ready with wire 15mins before time, so the match can actually start at 21.00! It is also the reason that in the rules, if a team failed to have players ready, with a delay of 15 mins then FFW. Might sound harsh - but that is for the greater good of all the players, casters, viewers, family and so on - 9 players should not sit in a server for 30 minutes waiting for one person to get home and play. Again, scheduling is key.
    An issue that I have been witness way to many times, is the much to often crashes that teams and players seem to have. At this point players should have learned what makes their machine crash. And if not - they should either buy a better one and play - or stop competitive play - as you are wasting a lot of peoples time.

    We are currently talking with the other ESL admins about how we can reduce long delays in matches. And have matches played faster. (hence reduce frustration of some teams and players, but heck - who wouldn't after a 3 hour match). If you have any ideas, you are welcome to drop us a line (SSKBart, SSKwaNted and ={GIS}=Philippovich).

    Well thanks for reading all this - I might have gotten a little of track. Teams join the Summer League
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    out of curiosity, what day are matches usually played on?
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  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    In case you are wondering about our scheduling for the looser bracket finals, we had to play it on Sunday because one of our players isn't here for this whole week. We would've prefered to play it on Tuesday or Wednesday but unless some other teams we were aware of the cup deadline.

    Really sad to have matches not casted but that's why my initial post was about the unnecessary delays in the looser bracket. We were aware that the match was very spontaneously and we tried to contact you about it without any success.

    Regarding the delays in-game it's alot about bugs still and thus not avoidable. The slow-motion bug is probably the worst one which we for example had in the match vs. Unknown (not sure if you saw that while casting as the first 2 rounds are missing). Then after reconnecting to fix that issue we got a 2 min ban for duplicated GUID. The in-game bugs/crashes aside, ESL wire made my PC crash twice already and even bluescreened it once and I'm playing since half a year..

    Alot of the issues are really not the players fault and I doubt the bugs will be fixed with full release. What we really need is a reliable comp mode so the match doesn't need to be restarted over and over again. Just being able to change the game score if both teams agree/enter the same score within 30 seconds maybe would already help out a lot. Until then I see no way of avoiding these kind of issues.
  • [1stCav]QuePasa^[1stCav]QuePasa^ Posts: 38Player
    One-day cup means that if you have 5 players ready to play, you join the cup and play each match the very same day. It works in ESL.
    -
    Crashes happen regardless of the game and the level of competition. It so happens in CS:GO top-level matches, as in other games. =( Comp. mode'd help so much, but yeah.. we'll have to wait for it. In the meantime it'd be a nice idea to put there at least two levels of comp. games.
    -
    How about a default day to play matches on? We've had this in TWL back in the day, the teams could agree to play on another date or push the match max. 1 week ahead.
  • SSKtidididiSSKtidididi Posts: 171Player
    edited June 2015
    Leagues are better for lower level team. As they will not have to fight top seed in the first round and bye-bye. Try to think of somebody else then yourself Tididididi, nobody think it is fun to be kicked out of a league after one game - and having to wait an other 2 or 3 month for the next one to start. The game is after all a place for most people to enjoy themselves. Which is also why I think it is ridiculous that high level teams go and crush a lower level team 32-0 - this will in no way motivate new teams to come and play comp. And if you want to be a high level team, then you should be the first to promote the game to have a 100 teams "under you".

    My friend, I do not think only about myself.

    1) cup without loser bracket = shorter cup, and possibility to play next cup. So it is possible to play two cups in time of one cup with loser bracket.

    Luck does not play in this game. If the team X lose in 1st or 2nd round, and this team is low skilled, it will lose in its first round in loser bracket. With or without loser bracket, this team will participate in the cup not for long.

    2) the league system with few divisions and promotions/relegations makes the game really fair. Basing on, for example, ESL ladder or clab rankings in elo system, we can make 3 divisions league (30 teams, 10 per league). Every team plays 2 maps once with different team. It is fair because it gives top teams in one division, mid teams in second divison, low teams in third division. Who will work good he will grt promotion, who plays bad he get relegated.

    Anyway in the league time, there could be a cup as well. One cup with all of 30 teams from all of the divisions.

    This is my dream and I believe it will become true. We play one season per 6 months and one cup during the league season. If I would be an ESL admin I would like to make a detailed plan of this. It really looks excellent in the theory. This is the best trigger to push the competition level up, the level which is currently terrible low.

    And you said it is no fun to lose in high score. Well, we came back to ESL ladder and we wanted to play against teams from lower side of the ladder. The teams denied our challenges. They will not become good teams if they play against the same level teams. Big respect for Armada clan. They took the shield and came against us. I appreciate it- they shown the fun is the most important, not being scared of the best team and the best players. Once again, real respect. Another team (Re-United) told us they can beat us very easy. Our challenge denied after 5 minutes. GG THX NT.

    If anyone will be interested in league system, just contact with me. Whatever it will be, ESL or something else.
  • -pR|Arkeiro-pR|Arkeiro Posts: 751Player

    And you said it is no fun to lose in high score. Well, we came back to ESL ladder and we wanted to play against teams from lower side of the ladder. The teams denied our challenges. They will not become good teams if they play against the same level teams. Big respect for Armada clan. They took the shield and came against us. I appreciate it- they shown the fun is the most important, not being scared of the best team and the best players. Once again, real respect. Another team (Re-United) told us they can beat us very easy. Our challenge denied after 5 minutes. GG THX NT.

    If anyone will be interested in league system, just contact with me. Whatever it will be, ESL or something else.

    In the end it is all about respect and sportmanship. Ofc we all want to win. But only one truly wins each match.

    Over 1.3k Golden Hawkeyes.
  • SSKbartSSKbart Posts: 125Player
    If the goal is to have people play more matches, then a groupstage format should be made.

    It is also up to the community request what they like to see.

    It could be an idea to make a groupstage followed by 8 teams playoff (f.e. 4 divisions, top 2 of every division go through), and in the meantime have a "onenightcup" every x time.

    It's all possible as long as we will have enough teams up for this, for example for a onenightcup you need at least 8 teams at an evening, and for such a groupstage it's best to have at least 20 teams.
    SNLSTB.Bart^
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