Fragged Nation with lawl bannings lawls

.dcG-Colts^

Well since when do leagues ban players without proof what a joke. I hope this league dies fast. We needed another league to play hope someone is working on a league or has another league in mind. Banning players with no proof and not providing any proof and saying "trust me" is completely bias and unacceptable if you are a league admin you cannot ban a player from your league because you simply do not like the person that is wrong! Things seriously need to change at fragged nation if they want to survive. I've heard of a new league someone is working on any update on this new league?

i9.unknown

Just so you know - xtr, the game admin, had nothing to do with it. It was havok the global admin who doesnt even play the game. We didn't care if penguin whoever he may be played. It's not like he's playing with cheats anyway

.dcG-Colts^

Why is a player that is not cheating being banned from a league? This is simply not a good league to support and continuing to sign up for. Whether it was xtr or havok global admin or w/e the reason I am hearing behind it is linked account with cheats or something. It's simply unfair and wrong when the player in question is not cheating. All's he did was have some humor towards me on the forums back and forth for jokes. A league that bans players from competing in it's league for trolling on the forums is not a league we should be supporting/signing up for that is the truth.

=IK=Doba=

Yeah thas pretty bad.. that's like getting banned from this forum and getting banned from the game..

Saccho

"Unsportsmanlike conduct" is a thing and I 100% support the possibility of that resulting in consequences.

.dcG-Colts^

=IK=Doba= wrote: »

Yeah thas pretty bad.. that's like getting banned from this forum and getting banned from the game..

It's the exact same thing actually. Let that sink in and then think about their decision and the biggest problem is we don't know the extent of the unsportsmanlike conduct because the posted got all edited out.

doogle!

Who was banned now?

Saccho

I believe he's now managed to get at least 5 separate accounts banned on these forums. That takes a certain level of persistence in trolling. I doubt behavior at FN was particularly different.

Look at posts on other forums -- I'd post a link, but there's definitely ToS-violating content there -- regarding his relations with FN. That series of interactions alone is worthy of some serious league repercussions IMO (and not just for him).



Pick your fights, this one isn't really worth it. *shrug*

doogle!

Considering the state of the main league, a mute is more appropriate. Talk about FN shooting themselves in the foot.

Saccho

More advanced matchmaking services can mute players in-game as well and have more control over punishing player behavior, but AA doesn't have that. I don't think the culture should be "You can talk trash about whoever you want whenever you want however you want since you'll only get muted because we're that desperate for participants."

There should be standards.

doogle!

But haze/cokane/penguin didnt talk trash to his competition, he talked about the lack of clarity in FN rules, direction and leadership. Now he's banned from playing not because of illegal programs, but because he called out some 18 year old global admins and (past) AAPG staff for being bipolar and condescending and for FN as a whole being short sighted. In short, he was a forum warrior and instead of being silenced on the forum only, he was barred from playing in FN AAPG, which needs all the help it can get. But the big-headed upper management of FN doesn't care about that; all they care about is their forum names in bold red or purple.

As I said in another thread, ESL also really screwed the pooch for not taking advantage of FN frackery. Instead, we have a league being literally fueled by one clans' dedication to the AAPG comp scene (coN) with loopholes throughout the rules, a league site that doesn't give a flying F about AAPG or provide it the tools/power necessary to run a successful league. And another league who does not seize opportunity when it's thrown right on their doorstep, [MOD EDIT-TOS Violation]

Seriously, regardless of opt-in weekends, the tournament should have continued. Instead it took 19 months for it to complete and the hype surrounding ESL NA is gone. Then the botched finals match with 6 viewers, and lack of general advertisement. Please, Crush FN. They're [TOS Violation] from top to bottom. But you've gotta do some progressive [TOS Violation]. [TOS Violation], offer a position to a pessimistic a-hole like haze. You need balance on the staff to call the bullshhh when they see it.

This game needs a powerhouse competition site to step up. Both options suck right now...even with only 1 real place to play.

Don't blame matchmaking in AAPG BCPull, we did fine in AA2 w/o in-game support such as CSGO and Combat Arms. What we need is people with an everyday-man state of mind with the ability to pull their heads out of their own asses to appeal to the masses of AAPG...not the same 12 pricks who actually say "lawl" as if it's a legit word.

.shhfiftyfive-

here's the difference guys...
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if a person is violating comms rules in game.... you know, typing or using voip inappropriately during an actual match server. or using the official match comms inappropriately... then that would be worthy of a temp-perma ban...
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but you can't ban people from a comp game just because they troll a public forum.... even if it is an admin. ban them from the forums, absolutely. but until they troll players/teams in official capacity, they shouldn't be banned from the competition.
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otherwise you're just abusing your power as an admin/moderator... you're discouraging anyone from posting, for possibility that the admin/mod may not like what you posted... it's just not the way you run a league.
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i mean, you guys not have very good memory.... remember when aapg first came out and TWL first took a crack at it... and TWL promoted some random guy to head admin... and the community challenged that decision and that head admin's actions.... you realized how stupid it would have been to let that one admin ban players for challenging his silly decisions? and we're completely talking about forums here, discussing how an admin would arbitrarily decide on what the league rules were going to be...
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the people should have a right to speak up and question those ruleset choices, or the competency of said admin, who in such cases the admin has not got enough experience to be holding said position...

Saccho

I'm dumbfounded, you guys. You're acting like "sportsmanship" and acceptable public conduct is limited to "Is the player currently in a match?"

Here's what a legit tournament rulebook with actual cash prizes looks like:

All insults occurring in connection with the ESL One will be punished. This primarily applies to insults during a match but also on the ESL website (forums, match comments, player guest books, support and protest tickets, etc.). Insults on IRC, IM programs, E-mail or other means of communication will be punished if they can be linked to the ESL One and the evidence is clear.

shhfifty -- the admin being attacked wasn't the one making decisions on punishment. There's no abuse of power issue.

I fully support banning people from competition for acting like trolling idiots in public. Why in the world do you guys think that's the kind of behavior the scene needs? Seriously. *Why* is trolling something you believe the community needs to defend?

Can we all pretend that we should expect maturity from the community?


Even if the first ban wasn't warranted, the right way to deal with it isn't to make new accounts and try to pretend that you're a new person. Again, any real rulebook would immediately recognize that as a serious infraction.

Everyone's complaining about the quality of administration and leagues, but fighting against the standards held by actual leagues in the very next breath.

.dcG-Colts^

BCPull wrote: »

I'm dumbfounded, you guys. You're acting like "sportsmanship" and acceptable public conduct is limited to "Is the player currently in a match?"

Here's what a legit tournament rulebook with actual cash prizes looks like:

All insults occurring in connection with the ESL One will be punished. This primarily applies to insults during a match but also on the ESL website (forums, match comments, player guest books, support and protest tickets, etc.). Insults on IRC, IM programs, E-mail or other means of communication will be punished if they can be linked to the ESL One and the evidence is clear.

shhfifty -- the admin being attacked wasn't the one making decisions on punishment. There's no abuse of power issue.

I fully support banning people from competition for acting like trolling idiots in public. Why in the world do you guys think that's the kind of behavior the scene needs? Seriously. *Why* is trolling something you believe the community needs to defend?

Can we all pretend that we should expect maturity from the community?


Even if the first ban wasn't warranted, the right way to deal with it isn't to make new accounts and try to pretend that you're a new person. Again, any real rulebook would immediately recognize that as a serious infraction.

Everyone's complaining about the quality of administration and leagues, but fighting against the standards held by actual leagues in the very next breath.

will be punished...key word punished...not perma banned for life no appeal. Example you wanna troll on forums huh well your banned from forums for 2 weeks and you got a 1-2 match ban as well...Next offence can be harsher or w/e third offence can obviously be ban for life. It is not clearly known that I cannot troll fragged nation forums or I will be banned from competing not that I would troll but its the truth and the above is how it should be done. If you had a competent league admin this is how stuff would be handle.

.shhfiftyfive-

otherwise if you are held to some standard in pubs, even outside competition... (not speaking of cheat detection here) you can easily goad someone into "breaking comp rules behavior in a pub"... that is why you can't enforce good sportsmanship outside of the confines of the actual competition. i mean if some troll is provoking me in a pub and gets me to respond with "f off" and then captures that as evidence to get me removed from comp.... nope.
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but by all means, when the game has cash prizes and players/teams have sponsorships, and those sponsors come out and say "you need to be mature in pubs or we will drop you" then that is when someone can enforce behavior in pubs....
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actually, your clan leader can enforce the same rules on the members, but the actual league can't/shouldn't enforce how you behave outside of comp.

doogle!

Heck, former FN admin would troll his own forums.

Bad sportsmanship is going to exist in gaming communities, it just is. Muffle the player in forums, and call it a day. I like colts progressive discipline. BCP, the difference between AAPG and the pro ESL tourneys, is we cannot afford to lose 1 or 2 players. Have you ever been in a server and heard the way some of the comp players talk to the general public? Or overheard them crapping on other inferior comp teams? That's not sportsmanlike, but they should not be banned. Haze wasn't being racist or sexist, he was challenging the principle of the way FN management was running the league. His "trolling" was him questioning the rules, questionable decisions by krux, xtr and FN leadership, etc.

The holier than thou mindset you're referencing is not congruent to comp play in AAPG. Not in FN, not in TWL, not in ESL. This isn't a professional organization, it's the internet. The most appropriate and powerful tool is the mute.

Saccho

Which is better for growing the scene long-term:
- Protecting the bad apples because everybody's THAT desperate for players
- Projecting a positive image by requiring good behavior

.shhfiftyfive-

that's fine bc, but the point is clearly defining good/bad behavior, and the punishment being fitting...

Saccho

Issue 1: language on the FN forums
Issue 2: language on third-party sites
Issue 3: evading forum bans with new accounts
Issue 4: playing in matches with alt account (faker)
Issue 5: lying to other players about using an alt account
Issue 6: lying to admins about using an alt account
Issue 7: team playing a disallowed player

Why act like all of these things are okay? If you think your ban's unfair, you don't get to just break all the other rules without consequences.

.shhfiftyfive-

a forum ban should not equal a game account ban. this is why you keep these actions separate.
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"If you think your ban's unfair, you don't get to just break all the other rules without consequences."
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idk about FN rules at all, but if a forum warning/ban = account banned from comp, then your rules are garbage. that is a flaw in the rules, and the bogus rules are to blame.
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1-2 should not create causation for 4-7. i'm all for prohibiting alt accounts, but i am not okay with banning persons from play just because of a forum violation. i'm especially not okay with racking up such additional charges against someone that all can be tied to someone initially questioning a questionable ruleset...

12oz`Clover

MOD EDIT: He's banned, that means no posting, even by proxy.