Jumping/Falling system, idea how to change it.

-[iG]-Leketiskis

Hello guys,
I probably would not start this discussion about jumping and shooting here since it was discussed million of times before and I understand it’s different then it look to the guys that got shot by it.
The "jumping and shooting at same time" after watching in slow motion it’s just shooting the moment you reach a ground. The problem is that I'm loosing plenty of people in this game over this thing, since most people consider it a glitch. It’s not very natural for most players to jump around the corner, but more experienced guys uses that in advantage when coming around the corner. Might be the low tickrate that causes problems of hitting the jumping guy, but somehow the advantage he gets is a bit to big. When player jump, he clicks shooting button midair, and starts firing the moment he lands on the ground. I compared it to falling and I noticed that after falling or getting hurt your shooting stops and you have to click it again to start. So if the game engine knows when soldier is in air, and when not, the only thing required to solve this problem that lasted over almost all versions of the game is to add break on shooting action the moment you land, just like after falling.
BTW, I kinda like it, but some guys complain that you can shoot while falling. Considering that you can’t shot while jumping, that is sort of same since you in air.
Here is video examples of those things, to make it more clear:

(Video is no public, so you can view it only with link)

Just to ADD, every player in this video had pings under 40.

added one more example:

=IK=Doba=

In both examples, the player actually came into your view then jumped.. he didn't technically jump the corner.. so not only was he vulnerable by running around the corner, he added to that by jumping leaving him exposed for another second.. the shooter simply missed his shots !! improving aim is what I'd be worried about.

-[iG]-Murfinator

@=IK=Doba= true but few rounds before he use'd that and got a insta headshot ..
its just they try to make it as real as possible but as you jump u would have to get a delay or something because in real life jumping with a riffle wouldnt let you shoot insta because u would have a insane drop rate on your gun because of the movement and because of the weight in your hands so ( make a delay on it ) or (give it a harder drop so u cant just shoot that accurate) my opinion ..

not a big thing but would be nice if it was gone ..

SSKnecabo

Attacking is already difficult with the slow and sloppy movement, not sure if this wouldn't just completely break the balance. That being said I don't like that kind of playstyle, it's really cheap and not skillful at all but that's what the game has been since release I guess. Spray and pray, jump around like an idiot and get kills, glorious game.

=IK=Doba=

The jumper is actually relying on two things, luck since he's hip firing and the opponent to miss.. can he get a lucky head shot? yes he can

Realism shouldn't be used as an argument point in a video game especially one that is NOT a sim!

][nG^.Apex!Con!

It's hard to capture a good example, but all of us have the bad experience of getting fragged this way. This bug, and it is a bug, no way this is possible in real life scenarios, afects the gameplay by giving the attacker an unfair advantage, why smoke or flash a passageway when you can make a jumpshot? Time for the devs to rethink the stamina burn.

[Prt_Dictator]

In regards to falling, the reason you can shoot while falling is that stopping weapon fire every time you're in the air would make a lot of situations extremely annoying. Like walking up and down a sidewalk, stepping off a chair or other prop and stuff like that would force you to stop shooting.
I cursed a lot at a coffee table that was in pipeline in AA2 for this exact reason.

Jumping around corners is extremely scrubby but that's the game, and considering how slow characters walk its even more encouraged. I would say, improve the walking and leave jumping as an option instead of a requirement.

frankof

You missed one option in the poll, "I dont use it and it dont bother me"

Oh, and shooting while falling is a feature in the name of realism
(you wont hit much as the accuracy penalty is rather large)

-[iG]-LeRa

I personally agree with Leketiskis and i would like to add one more alternative.That would be to add an instanteneous suppression effect right after the jump so at least aimin for the enemies head while midair isnt as easy ...

SSKnecabo

=IK=Doba= wrote: »

The jumper is actually relying on two things, luck since he's hip firing

You are scoped in pretty much the same exact second you are able to shoot.

-[iG]-Leketiskis

Lets keep the discusion on this one point, i really want to get developers view on this an not just crying topic. The default game tickrate, that most players has is 30, that means that during jump he sees enemy in just few frames, well if he has better PC and better monitor with higher refresh rate, he might see him more, but server will update his hitboxes only few times. the jumper himself, jumps and sees the guy that moves very slowly and those hitboxes are perfectly still to aim at and land deadly shots right after the landing. So at least having to click mouse after landing would help already. no need for weird delays.
Some guys proposed adding decreased accuracy after jumping or movement like sliding in stead of just totally stoping the shooting action, maybe that would be good idea too.

=IK=Doba=

Oh .. another suppression effect as if my screen doesn't shake enough as it is..

What bothers me more in relation to the topic (sort of) is vaulting.. we should jump higer and eliminate vaulting! Talk about a broken feature.

frankof

Default tick rate is 30, the inbetween is calculated.
So at 90 fps you get two calculated frames for every "server frame"

-[iG]-Leketiskis

frankof wrote: »

You missed one option in the poll, "I dont use it and it dont bother me"

Oh, and shooting while falling is a feature in the name of realism
(you wont hit much as the accuracy penalty is rather large)

yeah, they don't allow to change me after i created it just vote as you use it and don't bother me then
Lera proposed the suppressed things but i disagree on those, since all the shaking is already enough or sure almost wanted to start discussion about the hit detection, after "frankof" post about generated frames, but will try to keep it closer to this more simple change. asking same to other's.

=IK=Doba=

Don't hold your breath waiting on a Dev response regarding feature tweaking.

-[iG]-Leketiskis

BTW, the kill Alexx had on Murf before is also in my video library:


So on this video we can clearly see the accurasy is not really reduced after jumping, could give credit to luck, but not multiple times per day that his happen when you play more actively.

and about holding my breath while waiting, you might be right, but im willing to try do something in my power then just constantly cry about nothing happening, i have idea and shared it that would actually might work and not be that difficult to change or decrease satisfaction of faster gameplay lovers.

=IK=Juggernaut

The problem with nerfing the "jump shoot" is that jumping and shooting is the counter to corner campers, since I would otherwise have to sprint around the corner with my gun down, or walk at the super slow walk speed around the corner. Even when I'm jumping, the corner camper still has the advantage.

The jumping hang time is the trade off and... I mean no offense, but you definitely dropped the ball in those two instances in your video. You had the advantage and still missed your opportunities to shoot those guys.

=IK=Juggernaut

Though, I would agree with fixing the animation to match when the jumper actually hits the ground... Sometimes it looks as if he's still slightly in the air.

-[iG]-Leketiskis

Only 1st episode is of my own, and i agree that there was missed shots on those instances and delay to shot, but keep in mind that its all in slowmotion, the real things happened in less then second.
time after seeing finger of enemy till beeing dead:
1st moment - 0,9 seccond (54frames of 60 frames per second video)
2nd moment harder to count, but after having him in screen - 0,56 seconds (34 frames of 60 frames per second video)
3rd moment (other video) - 0,53 seconds (32 frames of 60 frames per second video)

BTW toward comment that is counter action to corner campers:
I dont like corner campers that does it for the whole match, not when they hear upcoming enemy just around the corner. and counter action is flash or smoke or thing like that. defending corner is supposed to be easier then attacking it.

-[U|S|A]-Gorilla

Not a Glitch not going to change. There is always going to be someone to talk or say something about this. Argue as much as you would like but, this is not going to change.

=IK=Juggernaut

-[iG]-Leketiskis wrote: »

Only 1st episode is of my own, and i agree that there was missed shots on those instances and delay to shot, but keep in mind that its all in slowmotion, the real things happened in less then second.
time after seeing finger of enemy till beeing dead:
1st moment - 0,9 seccond (54frames of 60 frames per second video)
2nd moment harder to count, but after having him in screen - 0,56 seconds (34 frames of 60 frames per second video)
3rd moment (other video) - 0,53 seconds (32 frames of 60 frames per second video)

BTW toward comment that is counter action to corner campers:
I dont like corner campers that does it for the whole match, not when they hear upcoming enemy just around the corner. and counter action is flash or smoke or thing like that. defending corner is supposed to be easier then attacking it.

I'm saying this based on the real time clips in the beginning of the video, not the slowmotion. He had just as much time to react as you, except his gun was down for a longer period of time. This is a fast paced game at times!

The 3rd moment (other video) is an example of a great shot. It's not easy to do that! He's also punishing whoever's playing for standing still, totally exposed in the open.

Also, smokes can conceal you, but they don't help you kill campers. Flashes are useful against corner campers, but are unreliable, and you only get 1 nade! If I'm out of flashes and nades, should my only choices be to run in with my gun down, or camp outside until time runs out? Even with the jump, it's still easier to defend a corner, but it gives the other guy a chance.