My opinion/questions for the "comp" players still standing.

]TDF[Buster]TDF[Buster Posts: 21Player
Browsing through some of your discussions in here, mainly about hackusations, and those of you complaining about them I have a few questions, and observations(obviously followed by my opinion).

1)How many players of your clan eventually got banned for a punkbuster ban that held?(current: or past: plz specify)


2) how many players or if you can name them(not sure if that is allowed) of other clans did you suspect of eating cheeze but could not prove and eventually got banned for eating cheeze?

3) Do you feel as if you were robbed of a potential win because of those in question 2?

4) Was it an unspoken, but acceptable practice in the past to eat cheeze?

5) how many of you were ini editing the recoil out in the early days?

6) how many clans do you think were knowingly recruiting cheeze eaters, or knowingly formed with the sole purpose of cheeze eating in competitive?

- this is where my more opinionated questions/comments will follow

7) After watching a few of the matches on youtube, jcarter's twitch, etc, I feel that it was about a 50/50 split of good players who were legit ,and the other half were completely robbing you of any chance what soever of actually gaining advancement into the next round. without naming names, or clans because once again I am unsure of the TOS, a lot of players were blatantly doing something to gain an advantage that today would get you banned from every server in the game,and even a newb administrator would recognize what is going on.-Have any of you gone back and looked at the videos and just felt a feeling of sadness?


8) what is your personal opinion on the status of cheeze eating in your "sport" today?

9) do you feel that cheeze eating has significantly affected your "sports" popularity, and growth?

10) do you think your "sport" can ever recover or become more popular?

my opinion/ observation i guess?:
For those of you that do know me, like me or not( and believe me if you do i understand why, and if you do not i also understand why but that is a different topic lol) I scrimmed occasionally back in cialone's old clan, then another clan afterward and I played in like 1 or 2 matches. I personally got very angry and upset on numerous occasions because I felt that unspokenly, members of my clan... and members of other teams were robbing fair players of any chance before the match even started. I inevitably left my clan due to differences in opinion of the recruitment of a few players. i played with, and against. ACI inevitably proved me correct on many of my assumptions about certain players, or teams. It completely turned me off on even being part of the community at all, due to the fact I loved having fun with a lot of these people, but I was never willing to tarnish the very little bit of a reputation that I had, and taking that step that i thought(and inevitably mostly was right) that other players were willing to take. I felt as if it became an unspoken, accepted, and almost expected part of the community. Before all of these thoughts and feelings came to me, I was advocating and trying persuade clans to join the "E-sport" community and help it thrive and grow. Most of the time the opposition to joining was always "I do not want to play against cheeze eaters" and I would find myself still trying to convince them until the idea was pointless and moved on. I kind of feel like the younger players would do what they did, or do, because they had some sort of delusion of grandeur going on and I have accepted that I will most likely never compete again for many reasons.

that being said, I feel as if a lot of you are dealing with this problem of other player's dirty habbits with your image and play in the public community. I have read on this forum quite a few times "what is good/normal play for us is considered che%at^ing for others", but with all of the past bans that have inevitably come to light, it doesn't seem like this is true. It seems like some of the plays that people were making, really were eating cheeze, and building false image's of what a "leet" player is, and thus contributing to the problem of younger kids wanting to replicate what they were seeing. I feel as if some people in the community are unknowingly contributing to a rise in unfair play due to the fact that most of the youtube videos of competitive play feature players that are banned today, but were praised as "THE BEST EVER IN THE GAME" yesterday. what are your thoughts? Do any of mine have validity to you ? If you need me to clarify something just let me know.
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Comments

  • Bear_82Bear_82 Posts: 365Moderator
    OP, since you twice mentioned in your post that you were unsure of TOS, specifically regarding naming others, here you go:

    http://forum.americasarmy.com/discussion/2/new-forums-rules

    2. You may not name and shame another player
    The right of the people to keep and arm bears shall not be infringed.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    edited July 2016
    Speaking for =IK= only..

    1. No IK player to date has been caught cheesing in any way... not from my recollection, definitely not any of my main comp players

    2. Not allowed to name any, but in AAPG there's only been a few players suspected in the NA comp, and a couple of them did get a Ban.

    3. I don't think IK was ever robbed due to a cheese player unless that player has yet to be caught.

    4. Its never acceptable to eat cheese.. zero excuses

    5. You can never be sure how many, a hand full had the no recoil scrips, today its the [TOS Violation] mice, why companies even make mice that have such features is beyond me.

    6. Again I think only 2 clans have a reputation of taking troubled players, whether a dirty past from another game, or from early days in this game

    7. 50/50 split is not even close .. as only a hand few of players were actually suspected by the comp community

    8. My personal opinion is cheese eaters have no business in the game, I would run a zero tolerance rule, no second chances.. if you get caught in comp youre done and can never be trusted.. but thats just me.. some people think players can change.. I dont

    9. I don't think a few players have affected AA's comp, its too small

    10. "recover" ?? it hasn't affected it to the point where its done.. were still going

    If you're affected by some players that are accused, the sport is not for you, this is something that will never go away from what we can see.. there will never be a for sure as all anti cheats suck balls. Its something you deal with and carry on, if you cant you quit and there are those who have.

    Also I feel many players use this as an excuse, instead of thriving to become better then put the blame on others.

    True story, some players simply need any help they can get to be on my level.
    _____________________________
    #Support Comp Mode

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN4YhM6jUB2MxVj8i3b9rhw
  • {4F}DeadlyGrouse{4F}DeadlyGrouse Posts: 277Player
    1. Zero players have ever been banned by pb from {4F}
    2. Only a few as doba said.
    3. No
    4. he!! no cheezing is bull.
    5. no one knows for sure. no one ever did in 4F
    6. agree with doba.
    7. I've watched a lot of those videos and i don't recall seeing anything out of the ordinary
    8. Im sure it happens hard to stop it completely.
    9. I think it can but weather it has idk
    10. don't need to recover as we haven't actually got going yet
  • =IK=.Scooby=IK=.Scooby Posts: 119Player
    edited July 2016
    1. I've only been apart of 2 comp seasons, and the season on FN that I played hardly counts because A. I wasn't actually a part of the team I played for, I was originally meant just to be an emergency sub in case they needed me, but through two of their members being banned and a 3rd just not showing up very often, I ended up starting. In FGN I was a part of M5, and we never accepted anyone in to our team with any cheating history nor did or has any of our members cheated after the fact. Most of them went on to join DC, another is in 4F and two of us(me being one of them) just run solo.

    2. Don't recall playing anyone in a match that I felt had any kind of unfair advantage.

    3. No.

    4. I can't really speak on the comp scene's past as I've only been apart of it for about a year now, but in the year I've been playing I don't think it's been acceptable.

    5. I wasn't a comp player during the no recoil ini stuff, nor did I know about it. One thing I did used to do that some might frown upon(this was way before I got in to comp, though. Relatively early on in the open beta) is I used to take advantage of the switching audio input setting to remove ambient noise..but slightly in my defense I made sure I told everyone I could how to do it. Not that it really makes it any less of an unfair advantage, but eh.

    6. There's teams that take in troubled players, but I'm honestly not sure it matters. We have punk buster and now MOSS running as anti-cheat in comp. Should be good enough to ward off any unfair play.

    7. A 50/50 split is absolutely ridiculous. The very vast majority of comp players, past and present, are legit. No where near 50% not being legit.

    8. I trusted that moss did it's job for FGN..There's apparently a mouse that can be used to get around it but I've read that the devs themselves are working on a fix for that in-game too, so I feel good about how the game is doing in terms of AC.

    9. No. There is issues in every game about "cheese eating". The issue with our "sport's" popularity is the game itself.

    10. I think AAPG comp is close to done because AAPG itself is close to done. User totals are dropping every month pretty much at this point.
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    edited July 2016
    1)How many players of your clan eventually got banned for a punkbuster ban that held?(current: or past: plz specify)
    None.
    2) how many players or if you can name them(not sure if that is allowed) of other clans did you suspect of eating cheeze but could not prove and eventually got banned for eating cheeze?
    Extremely few.
    3) Do you feel as if you were robbed of a potential win because of those in question 2?
    No.
    4) Was it an unspoken, but acceptable practice in the past to eat cheeze?
    No.
    5) how many of you were ini editing the recoil out in the early days?
    Very few. There was a concerted effort across many people to report it and figure out ways to detect and prevent it. The same goes for a number of other issues that were privately reported to Devs and corrected throughout beta. I think comp players overall were much more interested in getting the game to be fair and work as intended than finding an edge over others to exploit.
    6) how many clans do you think were knowingly recruiting cheeze eaters, or knowingly formed with the sole purpose of cheeze eating in competitive?
    I don't think any competitive clan was formed with the purpose of cheating in comp.
    7) [...]Have any of you gone back and looked at the videos and just felt a feeling of sadness?
    Having casted many of those early matches, no. I thought most players were clean when I made the recordings and I still think so now.
    8) what is your personal opinion on the status of cheeze eating in your "sport" today?
    It's a bigger problem in some players' minds than it is in practice.
    9) do you feel that cheeze eating has significantly affected your "sports" popularity, and growth?
    No.
    10) do you think your "sport" can ever recover or become more popular?
    I think AAPG competition's future depends more on the success and growth of the game as a whole than any other factor.
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    One more thought regarding some of those early gameplay videos --

    James Carter cast an Inner Hospital match with members of jCp providing commentary on player moves. The depth of commentary made it one of the better casts ever made for the game; the jCp guys would accurately predict player movements and fight outcomes before they happened. That kind of ability to read situations, to be in the right spot at the right time because you can read the opponent's intentions and predict decisions before the opponent has, can seem like foul play but is the deepest skill any player can learn in any game.

    That same kind of psychological analysis and game theory plays into the concept of the "OODA loop" and disruption of an opponent's decision-making chain through high-tempo actions.

    Some players really were just that much better than much of the rest of the scene at the time.
  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,121Player
    edited July 2016
    I think it's worth noting that there definitely are players who are just that good. If we were playing a sport against a professional player and they wrecked us, we'd be like, ah well, he's a pro. Well, being a pro doesn't just happen over night. It takes tons of training, coaching, practice, and experience playing at high levels. It takes tons and tons of time and it's not much different in gaming. Facts are that there are people who spent all that time in this game or others doing just that. There also are people who maybe don't spend the time anymore as they've gotten older, but did when they were younger and it still shows.

    Whatever it may be, we can't think that everyone who's super awesome at this game or any other is cheating. There certainly are cheats out there, but I think the percentage of them compared to the really legit awesome players isn't as high as some people like to think.
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  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Yeah that 50/50 split is an indication of what average Joe thinks of comp players. It's far from the truth. For the most part we are some of the most loyal players this game has, we've been here for a very long time and will continue to support AA..

    I think every server owner should recognize who the games loyal comp players are so we're not attacked by randoms daily.
    _____________________________
    #Support Comp Mode

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN4YhM6jUB2MxVj8i3b9rhw
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,187Player
    I don't play comp admittedly, but I've played long enough and against some of (what I consider to be) this games best players to have a say on it I guess :lol:

    It all comes back around to what there is to learn.. there is only so much and after your just playing 99% for target practice, once all the basics are ingrained.. you don't even think about them anymore and it's all about positioning.. point and click.. accuracy and timing.. and ultimately, who is the best at it.

    Anyone else think similar things that I do while playing? do you often worry about silly things that others may not look at being so silly, basically things that you feel might make someone think your cheating?.. for example scanning around the map for teammate icons.. worrying it may look like your looking through walls for enemies? standing still in a spot, listening hard for any sort of noise? then moving as soon as there is a slight din in your eardrum?.. also things like suddenly changing tactics mid round, based on a feeling that somebody must have gone the another way simply because of timing? (ie. you expected someone to be there.. but wasn't)

    I often have these thoughts whilst playing, to use a better example than I did above.. it's like I'm always conscious of making lucky shots because of how them kinds of shots when pulled off might cause a raised eyebrow or two.. yet everyone who plays I'm sure can attest to pulling off the odd lucky shot :lol:

    It's the reason you will never see me accuse anyone (yeah I get mad sometimes, I'm not a robot).. because I know how it feels to be on the receiving end. You've got to be able to take a shot to the face with respect, which is what makes you try harder, in turn making you better.
    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,121Player
    edited July 2016
    Map knowledge also plays a big role. Some people just learn the maps to a point where they can predict where people will be at all times (I think Saccho made a point about this above). This kind of knowledge can certainly make it look like someone is hacking. Also with AAPG, the mechanics are so simple that mouse speed/accuracy and recoil control are the biggest keys to success. If you're that fast, then you'll automatically be at least an above average player from day 1. This game doesn't have all that much that you need to learn from a gun play standpoint.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • =IK=.Scooby=IK=.Scooby Posts: 119Player
    I don't play comp admittedly, but I've played long enough and against some of (what I consider to be) this games best players to have a say on it I guess :lol:

    It all comes back around to what there is to learn.. there is only so much and after your just playing 99% for target practice, once all the basics are ingrained.. you don't even think about them anymore and it's all about positioning.. point and click.. accuracy and timing.. and ultimately, who is the best at it.

    Anyone else think similar things that I do while playing? do you often worry about silly things that others may not look at being so silly, basically things that you feel might make someone think your cheating?.. for example scanning around the map for teammate icons.. worrying it may look like your looking through walls for enemies? standing still in a spot, listening hard for any sort of noise? then moving as soon as there is a slight din in your eardrum?.. also things like suddenly changing tactics mid round, based on a feeling that somebody must have gone the another way simply because of timing? (ie. you expected someone to be there.. but wasn't)

    I often have these thoughts whilst playing, to use a better example than I did above.. it's like I'm always conscious of making lucky shots because of how them kinds of shots when pulled off might cause a raised eyebrow or two.. yet everyone who plays I'm sure can attest to pulling off the odd lucky shot :lol:

    It's the reason you will never see me accuse anyone (yeah I get mad sometimes, I'm not a robot).. because I know how it feels to be on the receiving end. You've got to be able to take a shot to the face with respect, which is what makes you try harder, in turn making you better.

    That's the key of playing comp at a high level. Most comp players have similar shots(there's a few outliers, but for the most part most are on the same relative level), what separates the great ones from the just good ones(or worse) is their ability to predict what their opponent is going to do and then knowing exactly what to do to give them the best chance at countering it.

    That was the biggest shock for me of adjusting to comp when I started(and truth be told, something I'm still having to work on), I was dropping 2 and 3 kill matches and dying like 12-13 times in scrims. And this was me coming off of dominating pubs, dropping 60 bombs regularly on inner servers, [TOS Violation] like that.

    I get in to comp and all of the sudden my knowledge that lets me destroy the vast majority of pub players does jack [TOS Violation] for me against most comp players. I had to be completely retaught(to a point) how to play this game. Which not only improved my comp play but pub play too. The amount of times I get accused of "unfair play" has went up astronomically too.
  • iNv|roKis-iNv|roKis- Posts: 420Player
    1) None.


    2) mur was using fog glitch. Only league ban was applied.

    3) No

    4) No

    5) AFAIK none

    6) knowingly? none.


    7) ? I heard 2k2s was disgustingly good.


    8) I don't think anyone cheats in comp. We did have some weird players which after getting called out seemed to have gone back to their previous skill level. We had a few get good over night sensations which eventually died out. Specially a certain clan that disbanded.

    9) No..this game is ruined by the makers.

    10) Not a chance.
    Bhop is a string of jumps with no interruptions.
  • -vR.cialone!--vR.cialone!- Posts: 121Player
    iNv|roKis- wrote: »

    7) ? I heard 2k2s was disgustingly good.

    While I read the walls of text above, I just wanted to agree with this point ... 2k2s was disgustingly good. Probably the only team I've ever felt that we never had a chance to beat. (Don't get your panties in a bunch the rest of you, there were several others that I knew we would need to play perfectly + have some luck to beat)
  • -vR.cialone!--vR.cialone!- Posts: 121Player
    Congrats, Buster. I had to paste your post into a word document just to make sense of it. Over 800 words! (Just teasing)

    Not too long ago (I guess maybe a year), we (the “comp” community) had a place to air grievances and DRAMA. It acted as a nice sewage treatment facility that isolated a lot of the BS. Some outsiders got wind of the site and stunk it up to the point it had to be shut down.

    So, for your questions:

    1) None from the competitive side. And I think one non-competitive guy that got banned in the very, very, very early days of the beta. We did (almost?) have one guy that cheated. The story: Someone told me this rando wanted to join vR and that he was “the best player in this other clan.” I said sure, have him tag up if you like him, and we’ll give him a shot. Instantly, I got messages from 3-4 people I respect saying he was a cheater. I saw the video evidence, and kicked him out. Total time in vR? About 15 minutes. He’s still out there.


    2) In main there are a couple I had my doubts about, but nothing concrete and nothing really worth mentioning. The people that I played main against were overwhelmingly great people with really long, clean histories. The only obvious ones I saw were in scrims and when I dropped down to help the open team out. It was the new kids (and I mean kids, mostly) that felt like they needed to use extra help to get themselves or their lower-tier teams on the level.

    3) To be honest, no. Our lineup turned over too often to be in a position to win anything anyway. And the teams that wound up winning leagues and tournaments (jcp, iog, inv, i9) were all simply better. More experienced, better teamwork, better strategy, better cohesion. The guys on those teams put in so much time learning this game that a lower-level team could have cheated against them and still lost handily.

    4) Uh … nope.

    5) Nobody I know of.

    6) One, but they didn’t even win open ever.

    7) To be honest, the sadness I feel is that most of the real students of this game (who could have stayed and become teachers and improved greatly the overall level of play) have moved on because they found the game to be increasingly unsatisfying. These are the people that figured out all of the grenade placements, angles to watch, and timings. And they’re mostly gone.

    8) Sucks to suck.

    9) Nope.

    10) Not in this game, I don’t think. Don’t get me wrong here, I do love this game and this franchise. But the people who are needed to MAAGA are probably too bitter to come back ever. That and we’re growing up and having kids. But there are other first person shooters that are more popular than ever, with millions of dollars to be won.

    And that’s my 500 word response to your 800 word prompt. Sorry for the long post.
  • doogle!doogle! Posts: 678Player
    2K2S was nasty.
  • ]TDF[Buster]TDF[Buster Posts: 21Player
    edited July 2016
    I agree , 2k2s was nasty no doubts there. and No problems Cialone lol. I appreciate the responses. Based off of my own suspicions and observations, I was right about the players I suspected on about a 75% accuracy level. I love this game, always will probably until a new version comes out, or until maybe I fall in love with a new game. CS:GO is out of the question for me ,I have it, but the community is just too toxic for me, and honestly I am years behind the leaning curve lol. I will have to try Siege out of course here soon after I return into town. Did not pay 50 bucks for no good reason. Anyway I truly do appreciate all of your responses, I have read them all. It is a shame that AAPG's competitive scene never reached the success of other games. But I am sure you guys have a load of fun. Maybe I will get involved again , If i can actually convince more of my clan to actually play this game. I rarely recruit players from this game, just because I found that most are children under 18 that want to join, most people I know are in well established clans, and I just do not have the time or energy really. Oh and the one person I recruited from this game and gave a shot, i bought him arma 3 so he could join in on the fun, to make a short story short, I ended up having to kick him out of the clan because he ini edited his arma 3 folder to achieve an impossible rank within 24 hours and not work for it in the King Of The Hill game mode..
  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,121Player
    edited July 2016
    Wrong thread... delete.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • SSKbartSSKbart Posts: 125Player
    From my time in SNLSTB/SSK:
    1. None.
    2. 2 guys, one used WH in a starting cup, other was caught in public, but never played against on leagues. However their teammates still protected him, despite the obviousness.
    3. Yes
    4. Never, it's never tolerated. period.
    5. I didn't even know it was possible. The only reason for ini editing was to smooth out gameplay, especially since HUD gave some stutters in the early days, it needed to be fluent.
    6. Only 1 team, and they were refused in most competitions
    7. I've looked back on videos, it's definitely not 50%, maybe just 1/2 of all the players max. Most people just don't know what's possible. For example prefiring - the bullet must land somewhere, you got these days where you get perfect headshots with prefires.
    8. I don't play here anymore since a few updates ago, so unsure now.
    9. no
    10. I think some steps in the wrong direction had been made. But it will depend mostly on future development and advertisement.
    SNLSTB.Bart^
  • iNv|eKCommiNv|eKComm Posts: 394Player
    I figure, as a person who supported AAPG and competition from the very inception of this game my input may be valuable to someone somewhere.

    1)How many players of your clan eventually got banned for a punkbuster ban that held?

    None.

    2) how many players or if you can name them(not sure if that is allowed) of other clans did you suspect of eating cheeze but could not prove and eventually got banned for eating cheeze?

    Banned from the game, none. But 3 were banned from leagues at certain points.

    3) Do you feel as if you were robbed of a potential win because of those in question 2?

    Yes. Though I have nothing to complain about in the grand scheme of things. My team has amassed many accolades.

    4) Was it an unspoken, but acceptable practice in the past to eat cheeze?

    Unspoken, yes. Not too many of us knew the extent of said 'cheeze'.

    5) how many of you were ini editing the recoil out in the early days?

    To my knowledge there wasn't any way to use the ini to edit out recoil. You could change sensitivities to make it easier to compensate. But that isn't unfair by any stretch. Some games even open those options in their settings menu and most mouses support different x/y senses

    6) how many clans do you think were knowingly recruiting cheeze eaters, or knowingly formed with the sole purpose of cheeze eating in competitive?

    I knew three were harboring cheeze players purposely but only one of those teams had the competence to actually compete with iNvaders.

    7) After watching a few of the matches on youtube, jcarter's twitch, etc, I feel that it was about a 50/50 split of good players who were legit ,and the other half were completely robbing you of any chance what soever of actually gaining advancement into the next round. without naming names, or clans because once again I am unsure of the TOS, a lot of players were blatantly doing something to gain an advantage that today would get you banned from every server in the game,and even a newb administrator would recognize what is going on.-Have any of you gone back and looked at the videos and just felt a feeling of sadness?

    More often than not 'newb-administrators' as you call them really don't have the ability to say whats blatant. Most administrators don't understand the extent of players abilities because they dont venture beyond their own understanding of the game. That is, they know and understand the way the play and cant comprehend how someone can be both legit and yet light years beyond their skill level.

    8) what is your personal opinion on the status of cheeze eating in your "sport" today?

    As with all things. A few bad eggs ruin it for everyone.

    9) do you feel that cheeze eating has significantly affected your "sports" popularity, and growth?

    Not nearly as much as the lack of support for competition in this game. It has little to do with 'cheeze' because by in large teams that have been 'cheezy' have not won any majors. Competition in AAPG was doomed from the start... albeit, the whole game was doomed from the start.

    10) do you think your "sport" can ever recover or become more popular?

    Maybe there will be some random resurgence one day. But probably not. AAPG has strayed far from mainstream. Lost touch with what made it great and purely caters to the once-a-week, once-a-month player. This is not conducive to a good video game in the present day.
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  • ]TDF[Buster]TDF[Buster Posts: 21Player

    7. I've looked back on videos, it's definitely not 50%, maybe just 1/2 of all the players max. Most people just don't know what's possible. For example prefiring - the bullet must land somewhere, you got these days where you get perfect headshots with prefires.


    I am more talking about, how watching a match, that some people are showing recoil, and then some people are shooting straight laser beams. I will say this though, after doing some research on some of the clans or players from 2013/14 and then researching their GUID's, i found that a lot of EU players from 1-2 clans is where a lot of it was centered. I would watch a match, and using hind sight, I basically bet myself and say "I bet that dude is aci banned today" and usually i was right. However, I will say that a lot of your plays are just brilliant. I have seen all of you play, played with you, etc and Yall are great shots with a great competitive instinct. If you have not been banned by now, ur not ever getting banned lol.

    I have noticed tho, that a few of these new clans that are so called "Comp clans" , take it easy on them..because me and my 2-3 guys absolutely destroy a lot of them in scrims, pub play, and make them rage quit quite often lol. Sooo many videos of these new "comp clans" accusing people (mostly newbs, or me, or veterans that aren't that great) of un fair play lol.
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