Server admin and 3rd party site (PBBans/ACI/ETC) discussion

1679111214

Comments

  • =NiW=Raksu-ACI-=NiW=Raksu-ACI- Posts: 4Player
    You cannot get a VAC ban without running a cheat program. SSKnecabo I do not know how do you validate the cheating player but to me who runs a cheat program, for whatever reason is a cheater. I know alot of players are claiming they are getting banned on using skins, well the truth is a they are using a multihack program inorder to use those skins. You might say that is not cheat but VAC, PB and I do disagree.
    That sounds like the one ban appel ACI had with simmiliar issue. There was one player who claimed he only used multihack (or something similiar) to cheat and get skins on all the guns. That ban was not lifted by PB. Fair or not? I say that was fair ban and I do not have any problem keeping that player away from my server.
    Kids play these games but they are not desinged for kinds. Or does the devs want 10 year olds run around shooting people in game, doubt it. Some players may get banned because their kid did something stupid but it is each players responsibility to keep their account cheat free - if they want to call them cheat free players-.

    I have posted direct link to steam page, let me do it again and please do read it through so you actually understand how VAC bans work. https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7849-Radz-6869&l=english
    YOU CAN'T GET A VAC BAN WITHOUT DOWNLOADING AND RUNNING A CHEAT PROGRAM!!!

    Now I am repeating myself but I want you lot to understand where anticheat people come from. ACI streams and upholds bans from AA3,AAPG,BF3,BF4,BFH,BC2 and MOHW. And choises for these games is gross game ban, meaning you are banned in certain time in AA3 - there was time about 4 years ago when steam upholeded GUID for AA3 - so if you got banned that time the same GUID will be kicked from server if AAPG server owner has the enabled. I have not seen a signle kick that way but we still keep it enabled just cause we provide decend service.
    Secondly we enable cross guid kick between bf3,bf4 and mohw. Some complain that is unfair, sure some might think but who enforces that did not cheat and get the guid banned.

    ACI is not once a cheater always a cheater, period. However we provide our mebers enable/disable buttons to choose how they like to run their server. This includes a kick for VAC bans. Some may be banned for wrong reasons or for old VAC ban but you can always create a new steam account, same way as if you get banned by PB.
    If you are a server owner you can do as you like. Run ACI, don't run ACI. Run pbbans, don't run pbbans. And etc. I guess you guess my drift.
  • -SD-DELTON-ACI--SD-DELTON-ACI- Posts: 1,471Player
    edited June 2016
    TheTots wrote: »
    Ok guys, last warning. This is actually a good topic to discuss, but personal feelings and attacks are getting thrown around too much. We are all adults here, we can have a drama free actual discussion.

    There's no one good answer to cheating. That's why it still exists in every online game. It's all about how you mitigate the damage it can do and how you respond to it.

    For those in the "once a cheater, always a cheater" camp, you would be permabanning most game devs I know with that attitude. Many of us spent a lot of our youth "pushing the limits" of games and breaking things just for fun and to learn.

    I, personally, used to do RMT and work with multihacks on MMOs when I was in my late teens / early 20s. Should that mean I'm black listed from playing any online game ever again? Nah. I was a kid and did stupid stuff.

    As I grew up I turned that stupidity into something productive and made a career out of it. Keep in mind here that we're talking about cheating on a video game. Yes it sucks, yes you are lame if you do it, but we're not talking 1st degree murder.

    Lifetime sentences and punishments based off of shaky evidence (shared IPs, etc) seems like the punishment isn't fitting the crime.

    59296990.jpg

    had to reuse this one.
    i honestly doubt if nobody have ever played a game where they use cheatcodes or trainers, im talking about old games.
    if when i was young i played Age Of Empire and i used cheatcodes to get that awsome cars (cant remember the cheatcode itself) does that mean i need to be banned for life?
    i know its not a fair analogy for other cases but its just to show that the whole "once a cheater always a cheater" policy is quite ridiculous.

    You admitted yourself you have a VAC ban now.
    So tell me how old is grown up to you.
    gKQ6BB2.png
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    Some may be banned for wrong reasons or for old VAC ban but you can always create a new steam account, same way as if you get banned by PB.

    ... which leads to the now-trying-to-be-clean player being accused of hiding their past and being banned by server owners anyway after the BG check finds an IP link or matching name. There's very, very little room for forgiveness in the system. That's evident from how other admins have posted in this forum.
  • -=[USA]=-rubberboot-ACI--=[USA]=-rubberboot-ACI- Posts: 126Beta Tester
    Saccho wrote: »
    ... which leads to the now-trying-to-be-clean player being accused of hiding their past and being banned by server owners anyway after the BG check finds an IP link or matching name. There's very, very little room for forgiveness in the system. That's evident from how other admins have posted in this forum.


    while i do see your point about the idea of forgiveness, i'm really not surprised that in the gaming community there is little to be found....

    if a cashier who is caught stealing from the the till says sorry, do you really think they will keep their job? or do you think they would make an ideal cashier at another store?

    I honestly do believe that most are remorseful when they are caught and won't do it again, yet is it because they used enhancements in the first place or because they got caught using enhancements? Would they continue to use altered gameplay if they were not caught?

    If you made a mistake, you may now have to live with the consequences. Just like everybody else does. There is no one else to blame other than yourself. Maybe you should blame your parents, because they gave you the computer.... why not blame Visa, as they facilitated the game you bought of your own free will.... how about instead pulling on the bigboy pants and just take ownership for your mistakes.

    Unfortunately, not everyone out there is willing to give second chances for everything. Life lesson learned...


  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    edited June 2016
    @=NiW=Raksu-ACI-
    You should read about MW2 bans that i mentioned.
    @-SD-DELTON
    Never tried to hide it and couldnt even if i wanted, as for who is defined as a grow up.. thats not an answer i can give but i have never started a discussion about what age is considered grown up so i dont quite get the qeustion.
    @-=[USA]=-rubberboot-ACI-
    I dont think its a question of "pulling on the bigboy pants" not everybody have an issue to claim ownership for theyre own mistakes, the problem is that the mistake they have made does not always justify the harsh sentence they recieve.
    I dont consider the cashier analogy as a good one since the cashier is working for that store,
    I dont know if this one is a much better one but my view its more like
    If somebody stole from a specific store for the first time in his life would you ban him from getting into all stores around the world?

    I dont think its completly ACI's fault. I think the main blame in this is Steam for not revealing what the VAC is about to the public, i really did try to speak with steam support but as i mentioned all i got was copy paste answers.
    I do believe that the day they will start sharing the cause for the ban (not in specifics) in the sort of what ACI is doing and PB then the life of everybody will be much easier.
  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    I will also like to add a suggestion to ACI that might be considered by the staff.
    its perfectly fine to give admins the ability to kick peole with VAC bans, but maybe you should consider also providing admins the option to set under which condition to do so.
    Number of VAC and the time that the person has received it is an accessesible data, maybe the admins should have an actual option to decide how many VAC bans are fine and how old the last vac ban in.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    TheTots wrote: »
    Ok guys, last warning. This is actually a good topic to discuss, but personal feelings and attacks are getting thrown around too much. We are all adults here, we can have a drama free actual discussion.

    There's no one good answer to cheating. That's why it still exists in every online game. It's all about how you mitigate the damage it can do and how you respond to it.

    For those in the "once a cheater, always a cheater" camp, you would be permabanning most game devs I know with that attitude. Many of us spent a lot of our youth "pushing the limits" of games and breaking things just for fun and to learn.

    I, personally, used to do RMT and work with multihacks on MMOs when I was in my late teens / early 20s. Should that mean I'm black listed from playing any online game ever again? Nah. I was a kid and did stupid stuff.

    As I grew up I turned that stupidity into something productive and made a career out of it. Keep in mind here that we're talking about cheating on a video game. Yes it sucks, yes you are lame if you do it, but we're not talking 1st degree murder.

    Lifetime sentences and punishments based off of shaky evidence (shared IPs, etc) seems like the punishment isn't fitting the crime.
    I'm all for fairness in regards to catching cheaters... I'd rather 100 guilty people go free than have one innocent person get wrongfully convicted.
    TheTots wrote: »
    Ok guys, last warning. This is actually a good topic to discuss, but personal feelings and attacks are getting thrown around too much. We are all adults here, we can have a drama free actual discussion.

    There's no one good answer to cheating. That's why it still exists in every online game. It's all about how you mitigate the damage it can do and how you respond to it.

    For those in the "once a cheater, always a cheater" camp, you would be permabanning most game devs I know with that attitude. Many of us spent a lot of our youth "pushing the limits" of games and breaking things just for fun and to learn.

    I, personally, used to do RMT and work with multihacks on MMOs when I was in my late teens / early 20s. Should that mean I'm black listed from playing any online game ever again? Nah. I was a kid and did stupid stuff.

    As I grew up I turned that stupidity into something productive and made a career out of it. Keep in mind here that we're talking about cheating on a video game. Yes it sucks, yes you are lame if you do it, but we're not talking 1st degree murder.

    Lifetime sentences and punishments based off of shaky evidence (shared IPs, etc) seems like the punishment isn't fitting the crime.

    How many of those game dev's have VAC bans? How many of them have bans directly linked to their current player account from any openly-available source?

    Yes, everyone has probably used a "cheat code" in an old single-player game but that's not even close to the same thing. Using a cheat in a single player games just means that the game itself knows you are a cheater and let's you win.

    In PvP it is entirely different. You are deliberately using unfair advantages to play against live opponents and claim that it was your "skill" rather than some ill-gotten piece of code.

    Put simply, if you don't have a ban linked to your account then you get the same treatment as players that are cheating but haven't been caught yet: you get to play. If you do have a linked ban then there are several options: You play at the admin's discretion or you get banned by the admin because you were caught cheating.

    I'm all for fairness in regards to catching cheaters... I'd rather 100 guilty people go free than have one innocent person get wrongfully convicted.

    It's similar to the way an IRL background check works... Yeah, maybe you robbed a store 10 years ago and did 5 years behind bars. You served your time but that doesn't mean EVERY employer is going to be okay with hiring someone with that smear on their record regardless of how adamantly you claim to "not be that person anymore".

    As for bans placed by admins wrongfully using the tools that are available to them, that is on THEM, not the entirety of the ACI community.

    I agree with you. And the point was that you can get VAC not in PvP games.
    And that was the main issue in this discussion. If you want some reference you can read some of my replies in this topic it will give you a goos idea on what i am talking about

    I understand what your point is. The problem is that you are mixing the details of the point. Yes, you can get VAC bans for non-pvp games. That's at the discretion of the game developer. Since they don't tell us what your VAC ban was for you get lumped in with others who got their VAC ban for cheating in a PvP game. Unfortunately, giving someone the benefit of the doubt comes with inherent risks... Basically, the entirety of what you should take away from what I said is don't cheat and you don't have to defend having cheated.

    Choose one, using VAC bans will always result in a ton innocent people getting wronfully convicted.
  • K!Dz.applePIEK!Dz.applePIE Posts: 1,050Player
    Saccho wrote: »
    Some may be banned for wrong reasons or for old VAC ban but you can always create a new steam account, same way as if you get banned by PB.

    ... which leads to the now-trying-to-be-clean player being accused of hiding their past and being banned by server owners anyway after the BG check finds an IP link or matching name. There's very, very little room for forgiveness in the system. That's evident from how other admins have posted in this forum.

    This sounds nice and dandy but no admin goes and checks every single players BG who joins their server. One usually checks players with low ranks and high scores, fishy players in general or trolls who end up having multiple accounts just cause trouble on server with teamkilling, insults etc. So I can pretty much say, there are very very few players out there who cleaned up their act and wanna just play on with a new clean account.

    Another real world example (probably I will take again lots of heat for mentioning this):. A very well known EU comp player who pulls incredible flick shots in game, where ordinary folks would scream "no way" receives 2 VAC bans on CS:GO with 2 different accounts in 2 days (we know the ban was from CS:GO cos the first excuse from the player and its clan was that it was issued by Overwatch and not Valve itself yet it turned out to be a VAC ban and not a game ban). Now I know there are top players who pull this kinda shots from time to time, but as server admin why should I trust a player with that BG, that he in fact is just a good player? So what happened right after this ban: I would have welcomed the clan in question to simply suspend any competition for that particular player, yet the clan chose to find excuses over excuse (including the infamous "cross game bans are bad etc etc") and let the player continue on the running leagues and cups. Now I call this rather bad league management.

    Also I agree with rubberboots assessment about why cheese eaters become remorseful.

    And about VAC bans I agree with Imahustler, I also would welcome to see a type of violation code like from PB system (one thing they clearly do well) Not because I think that most VAC bans are innocent - I do strongly believe most VAC bans are valid and for proper cheets not for "I wanted to get that or this skin"- but so we can stop this silly discussions if the ban was a good ban or "innocent" ban. Just because VAC does not enclose this information, it is an easy excuse for many offenders to claim the ban was for nothing.



  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    edited June 2016
    Saccho wrote: »
    Some may be banned for wrong reasons or for old VAC ban but you can always create a new steam account, same way as if you get banned by PB.

    ... which leads to the now-trying-to-be-clean player being accused of hiding their past and being banned by server owners anyway after the BG check finds an IP link or matching name. There's very, very little room for forgiveness in the system. That's evident from how other admins have posted in this forum.

    This sounds nice and dandy but no admin goes and checks every single players BG who joins their server. One usually checks players with low ranks and high scores, fishy players in general or trolls who end up having multiple accounts just cause trouble on server with teamkilling, insults etc. So I can pretty much say, there are very very few players out there who cleaned up their act and wanna just play on with a new clean account.

    Another real world example (probably I will take again lots of heat for mentioning this):. A very well known EU comp player who pulls incredible flick shots in game, where ordinary folks would scream "no way" receives 2 VAC bans on CS:GO with 2 different accounts in 2 days (we know the ban was from CS:GO cos the first excuse from the player and its clan was that it was issued by Overwatch and not Valve itself yet it turned out to be a VAC ban and not a game ban). Now I know there are top players who pull this kinda shots from time to time, but as server admin why should I trust a player with that BG, that he in fact is just a good player? So what happened right after this ban: I would have welcomed the clan in question to simply suspend any competition for that particular player, yet the clan chose to find excuses over excuse (including the infamous "cross game bans are bad etc etc") and let the player continue on the running leagues and cups. Now I call this rather bad league management.

    Also I agree with rubberboots assessment about why cheese eaters become remorseful.

    And about VAC bans I agree with Imahustler, I also would welcome to see a type of violation code like from PB system (one thing they clearly do well) Not because I think that most VAC bans are innocent - I do strongly believe most VAC bans are valid and for proper cheets not for "I wanted to get that or this skin"- but so we can stop this silly discussions if the ban was a good ban or "innocent" ban. Just because VAC does not enclose this information, it is an easy excuse for many offenders to claim the ban was for nothing.



    Just wanted to let you know.
    Overwatch ban=VAC ban.
    If a player were verdict to be hacking by the overwatch system he receives a VAC ban for cs:go.
    Im not trying to defend that player im just saying that overwatch have its flaws.
    I believe that there should be a final screening by somebody that is authorized and the bans wont be issue purely by observers desicion

    Edit: just imagine a couple of kids calling you a hacker on AAPG and you get banned for it.
    Now i dont say thats the case but overwatch is being processed by players with "high" ranks in cs:go. I have viewed many cases myself so im quite farmiliar on how the system works.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    You cannot get a VAC ban without running a cheat program. SSKnecabo I do not know how do you validate the cheating player but to me who runs a cheat program, for whatever reason is a cheater. I know alot of players are claiming they are getting banned on using skins, well the truth is a they are using a multihack program inorder to use those skins. You might say that is not cheat but VAC, PB and I do disagree.
    That sounds like the one ban appel ACI had with simmiliar issue. There was one player who claimed he only used multihack (or something similiar) to cheat and get skins on all the guns. That ban was not lifted by PB. Fair or not? I say that was fair ban and I do not have any problem keeping that player away from my server.
    Kids play these games but they are not desinged for kinds. Or does the devs want 10 year olds run around shooting people in game, doubt it. Some players may get banned because their kid did something stupid but it is each players responsibility to keep their account cheat free - if they want to call them cheat free players-.

    I have posted direct link to steam page, let me do it again and please do read it through so you actually understand how VAC bans work. https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7849-Radz-6869&l=english
    YOU CAN'T GET A VAC BAN WITHOUT DOWNLOADING AND RUNNING A CHEAT PROGRAM!!!

    Now I am repeating myself but I want you lot to understand where anticheat people come from. ACI streams and upholds bans from AA3,AAPG,BF3,BF4,BFH,BC2 and MOHW. And choises for these games is gross game ban, meaning you are banned in certain time in AA3 - there was time about 4 years ago when steam upholeded GUID for AA3 - so if you got banned that time the same GUID will be kicked from server if AAPG server owner has the enabled. I have not seen a signle kick that way but we still keep it enabled just cause we provide decend service.
    Secondly we enable cross guid kick between bf3,bf4 and mohw. Some complain that is unfair, sure some might think but who enforces that did not cheat and get the guid banned.

    ACI is not once a cheater always a cheater, period. However we provide our mebers enable/disable buttons to choose how they like to run their server. This includes a kick for VAC bans. Some may be banned for wrong reasons or for old VAC ban but you can always create a new steam account, same way as if you get banned by PB.
    If you are a server owner you can do as you like. Run ACI, don't run ACI. Run pbbans, don't run pbbans. And etc. I guess you guess my drift.

    It's simply not true, custom skins are as easy as replacing a file so unless you consider windows programs a cheat there is no need for any cheating program in order to do that.
    The kids argument is funny since we have paintball mode, I'm almost certain devs welcome kids/teenagers playing the game. Kids do mistakes, some learn and some don't. Why is there still this weird zero tolerance policy I only see for this game? Why is it blamed on the admins choosing that way if there is barely any alternative? Why does it need to be the on/off policy not letting admins decide to lift 1st time offenders VAC ban after x years?
  • K!Dz.applePIEK!Dz.applePIE Posts: 1,050Player
    edited June 2016
    Saccho wrote: »
    Some may be banned for wrong reasons or for old VAC ban but you can always create a new steam account, same way as if you get banned by PB.

    ... which leads to the now-trying-to-be-clean player being accused of hiding their past and being banned by server owners anyway after the BG check finds an IP link or matching name. There's very, very little room for forgiveness in the system. That's evident from how other admins have posted in this forum.

    This sounds nice and dandy but no admin goes and checks every single players BG who joins their server. One usually checks players with low ranks and high scores, fishy players in general or trolls who end up having multiple accounts just cause trouble on server with teamkilling, insults etc. So I can pretty much say, there are very very few players out there who cleaned up their act and wanna just play on with a new clean account.

    Another real world example (probably I will take again lots of heat for mentioning this):. A very well known EU comp player who pulls incredible flick shots in game, where ordinary folks would scream "no way" receives 2 VAC bans on CS:GO with 2 different accounts in 2 days (we know the ban was from CS:GO cos the first excuse from the player and its clan was that it was issued by Overwatch and not Valve itself yet it turned out to be a VAC ban and not a game ban). Now I know there are top players who pull this kinda shots from time to time, but as server admin why should I trust a player with that BG, that he in fact is just a good player? So what happened right after this ban: I would have welcomed the clan in question to simply suspend any competition for that particular player, yet the clan chose to find excuses over excuse (including the infamous "cross game bans are bad etc etc") and let the player continue on the running leagues and cups. Now I call this rather bad league management.

    Also I agree with rubberboots assessment about why cheese eaters become remorseful.

    And about VAC bans I agree with Imahustler, I also would welcome to see a type of violation code like from PB system (one thing they clearly do well) Not because I think that most VAC bans are innocent - I do strongly believe most VAC bans are valid and for proper cheets not for "I wanted to get that or this skin"- but so we can stop this silly discussions if the ban was a good ban or "innocent" ban. Just because VAC does not enclose this information, it is an easy excuse for many offenders to claim the ban was for nothing.



    Just wanted to let you know.
    Overwatch ban=VAC ban.
    If a player were verdict to be hacking by the overwatch system he receives a VAC ban for cs:go.
    Im not trying to defend that player im just saying that overwatch have its flaws.
    I believe that there should be a final screening by somebody that is authorized and the bans wont be issue purely by observers desicion

    Edit: just imagine a couple of kids calling you a hacker on AAPG and you get banned for it.
    Now i dont say thats the case but overwatch is being processed by players with "high" ranks in cs:go. I have viewed many cases myself so im quite farmiliar on how the system works.

    this information is not entirely accurate. An overwatch ban does not necessarily transform into a VAC ban, there are many CS:GO players how have Overwatch ban yet never received a VAC ban. If a player received an overwatch ban (as far as I am informed) VAC takes a closer look into the case with proper tools as well and not only "eyesight of watching game play"

    Also the players who only received overwatch ban show "game ban" on their accounts instead of VAC ban. Btw Game Bans are not included in any ACI ban lists(which I also welcome as it may be simply given by some players who do not understand whats possible and whats not by just watching a better player)

  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    edited June 2016
    Saccho wrote: »
    Some may be banned for wrong reasons or for old VAC ban but you can always create a new steam account, same way as if you get banned by PB.

    ... which leads to the now-trying-to-be-clean player being accused of hiding their past and being banned by server owners anyway after the BG check finds an IP link or matching name. There's very, very little room for forgiveness in the system. That's evident from how other admins have posted in this forum.

    This sounds nice and dandy but no admin goes and checks every single players BG who joins their server. One usually checks players with low ranks and high scores, fishy players in general or trolls who end up having multiple accounts just cause trouble on server with teamkilling, insults etc. So I can pretty much say, there are very very few players out there who cleaned up their act and wanna just play on with a new clean account.

    Another real world example (probably I will take again lots of heat for mentioning this):. A very well known EU comp player who pulls incredible flick shots in game, where ordinary folks would scream "no way" receives 2 VAC bans on CS:GO with 2 different accounts in 2 days (we know the ban was from CS:GO cos the first excuse from the player and its clan was that it was issued by Overwatch and not Valve itself yet it turned out to be a VAC ban and not a game ban). Now I know there are top players who pull this kinda shots from time to time, but as server admin why should I trust a player with that BG, that he in fact is just a good player? So what happened right after this ban: I would have welcomed the clan in question to simply suspend any competition for that particular player, yet the clan chose to find excuses over excuse (including the infamous "cross game bans are bad etc etc") and let the player continue on the running leagues and cups. Now I call this rather bad league management.

    Also I agree with rubberboots assessment about why cheese eaters become remorseful.

    And about VAC bans I agree with Imahustler, I also would welcome to see a type of violation code like from PB system (one thing they clearly do well) Not because I think that most VAC bans are innocent - I do strongly believe most VAC bans are valid and for proper cheets not for "I wanted to get that or this skin"- but so we can stop this silly discussions if the ban was a good ban or "innocent" ban. Just because VAC does not enclose this information, it is an easy excuse for many offenders to claim the ban was for nothing.



    Just wanted to let you know.
    Overwatch ban=VAC ban.
    If a player were verdict to be hacking by the overwatch system he receives a VAC ban for cs:go.
    Im not trying to defend that player im just saying that overwatch have its flaws.
    I believe that there should be a final screening by somebody that is authorized and the bans wont be issue purely by observers desicion

    Edit: just imagine a couple of kids calling you a hacker on AAPG and you get banned for it.
    Now i dont say thats the case but overwatch is being processed by players with "high" ranks in cs:go. I have viewed many cases myself so im quite farmiliar on how the system works.

    this information is not entirely accurate. An overwatch ban does not necessarily transform into a VAC ban, there are many CS:GO players how have Overwatch ban yet never received a VAC ban. If a player received an overwatch ban (as far as I am informed) VAC takes a closer look into the case with proper tools as well and not only "eyesight of watching game play"

    Also the players who only received overwatch ban show "game ban" on their accounts instead of VAC ban. Btw Game Bans are not included in any ACI ban lists(which I also welcome as it may be simply given by some players who do not understand whats possible and whats not by just watching a better player)

    After doing some research i stand corrected.
    Thanks for the clerafication i guess there is always something new to learn
  • K!Dz.applePIEK!Dz.applePIE Posts: 1,050Player
    Saccho wrote: »
    Some may be banned for wrong reasons or for old VAC ban but you can always create a new steam account, same way as if you get banned by PB.

    ... which leads to the now-trying-to-be-clean player being accused of hiding their past and being banned by server owners anyway after the BG check finds an IP link or matching name. There's very, very little room for forgiveness in the system. That's evident from how other admins have posted in this forum.

    This sounds nice and dandy but no admin goes and checks every single players BG who joins their server. One usually checks players with low ranks and high scores, fishy players in general or trolls who end up having multiple accounts just cause trouble on server with teamkilling, insults etc. So I can pretty much say, there are very very few players out there who cleaned up their act and wanna just play on with a new clean account.

    Another real world example (probably I will take again lots of heat for mentioning this):. A very well known EU comp player who pulls incredible flick shots in game, where ordinary folks would scream "no way" receives 2 VAC bans on CS:GO with 2 different accounts in 2 days (we know the ban was from CS:GO cos the first excuse from the player and its clan was that it was issued by Overwatch and not Valve itself yet it turned out to be a VAC ban and not a game ban). Now I know there are top players who pull this kinda shots from time to time, but as server admin why should I trust a player with that BG, that he in fact is just a good player? So what happened right after this ban: I would have welcomed the clan in question to simply suspend any competition for that particular player, yet the clan chose to find excuses over excuse (including the infamous "cross game bans are bad etc etc") and let the player continue on the running leagues and cups. Now I call this rather bad league management.

    Also I agree with rubberboots assessment about why cheese eaters become remorseful.

    And about VAC bans I agree with Imahustler, I also would welcome to see a type of violation code like from PB system (one thing they clearly do well) Not because I think that most VAC bans are innocent - I do strongly believe most VAC bans are valid and for proper cheets not for "I wanted to get that or this skin"- but so we can stop this silly discussions if the ban was a good ban or "innocent" ban. Just because VAC does not enclose this information, it is an easy excuse for many offenders to claim the ban was for nothing.



    Just wanted to let you know.
    Overwatch ban=VAC ban.
    If a player were verdict to be hacking by the overwatch system he receives a VAC ban for cs:go.
    Im not trying to defend that player im just saying that overwatch have its flaws.
    I believe that there should be a final screening by somebody that is authorized and the bans wont be issue purely by observers desicion

    Edit: just imagine a couple of kids calling you a hacker on AAPG and you get banned for it.
    Now i dont say thats the case but overwatch is being processed by players with "high" ranks in cs:go. I have viewed many cases myself so im quite farmiliar on how the system works.

    this information is not entirely accurate. An overwatch ban does not necessarily transform into a VAC ban, there are many CS:GO players how have Overwatch ban yet never received a VAC ban. If a player received an overwatch ban (as far as I am informed) VAC takes a closer look into the case with proper tools as well and not only "eyesight of watching game play"

    Also the players who only received overwatch ban show "game ban" on their accounts instead of VAC ban. Btw Game Bans are not included in any ACI ban lists(which I also welcome as it may be simply given by some players who do not understand whats possible and whats not by just watching a better player)

    After doing some research i stand corrected.
    Thanks for the clerafication i guess there is always something new to learn

    this goes for all of us. But I am glad we can have a civilized discussion even with different opinions.
    *thumbs up*
  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    Saccho wrote: »
    Some may be banned for wrong reasons or for old VAC ban but you can always create a new steam account, same way as if you get banned by PB.

    ... which leads to the now-trying-to-be-clean player being accused of hiding their past and being banned by server owners anyway after the BG check finds an IP link or matching name. There's very, very little room for forgiveness in the system. That's evident from how other admins have posted in this forum.

    This sounds nice and dandy but no admin goes and checks every single players BG who joins their server. One usually checks players with low ranks and high scores, fishy players in general or trolls who end up having multiple accounts just cause trouble on server with teamkilling, insults etc. So I can pretty much say, there are very very few players out there who cleaned up their act and wanna just play on with a new clean account.

    Another real world example (probably I will take again lots of heat for mentioning this):. A very well known EU comp player who pulls incredible flick shots in game, where ordinary folks would scream "no way" receives 2 VAC bans on CS:GO with 2 different accounts in 2 days (we know the ban was from CS:GO cos the first excuse from the player and its clan was that it was issued by Overwatch and not Valve itself yet it turned out to be a VAC ban and not a game ban). Now I know there are top players who pull this kinda shots from time to time, but as server admin why should I trust a player with that BG, that he in fact is just a good player? So what happened right after this ban: I would have welcomed the clan in question to simply suspend any competition for that particular player, yet the clan chose to find excuses over excuse (including the infamous "cross game bans are bad etc etc") and let the player continue on the running leagues and cups. Now I call this rather bad league management.

    Also I agree with rubberboots assessment about why cheese eaters become remorseful.

    And about VAC bans I agree with Imahustler, I also would welcome to see a type of violation code like from PB system (one thing they clearly do well) Not because I think that most VAC bans are innocent - I do strongly believe most VAC bans are valid and for proper cheets not for "I wanted to get that or this skin"- but so we can stop this silly discussions if the ban was a good ban or "innocent" ban. Just because VAC does not enclose this information, it is an easy excuse for many offenders to claim the ban was for nothing.



    Just wanted to let you know.
    Overwatch ban=VAC ban.
    If a player were verdict to be hacking by the overwatch system he receives a VAC ban for cs:go.
    Im not trying to defend that player im just saying that overwatch have its flaws.
    I believe that there should be a final screening by somebody that is authorized and the bans wont be issue purely by observers desicion

    Edit: just imagine a couple of kids calling you a hacker on AAPG and you get banned for it.
    Now i dont say thats the case but overwatch is being processed by players with "high" ranks in cs:go. I have viewed many cases myself so im quite farmiliar on how the system works.

    this information is not entirely accurate. An overwatch ban does not necessarily transform into a VAC ban, there are many CS:GO players how have Overwatch ban yet never received a VAC ban. If a player received an overwatch ban (as far as I am informed) VAC takes a closer look into the case with proper tools as well and not only "eyesight of watching game play"

    Also the players who only received overwatch ban show "game ban" on their accounts instead of VAC ban. Btw Game Bans are not included in any ACI ban lists(which I also welcome as it may be simply given by some players who do not understand whats possible and whats not by just watching a better player)

    After doing some research i stand corrected.
    Thanks for the clerafication i guess there is always something new to learn

    this goes for all of us. But I am glad we can have a civilized discussion even with different opinions.
    *thumbs up*

    This is exactly what i love about this community. Take this disscussion anywhere else and it will rapidly become a contest of name shaming
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    edited June 2016
    I reckon some people are happy they have had a chance to put across their views, possibly even get some things off their chest and let out a few skeletons. We can all learn a lot by enaging in discussions such as this and they don't come around very often nor usually even be allowed.

    VAC banning on AAPG still seems like a bad deal to me, let me explain, it's a risk/reward option that is not at all proof a player is cheating (or will cheat) in this game and even though intentions are most likely always good when using it, for the good of the game and all that, it does have the potential to lose players that actually may not ever cheat (tarred because of their history) and just came by to try the game, maybe already being or going on to become a genuine player. I don't believe one can even be "once a cheater, always a cheater".. who's to say for sure other than the person who once saw fit does such silly things?

    As daft as it sounds some people will enjoy that aspect of gaming, you know? the guy who comes on and insta-headsots everyone withing the first 10 seconds of a round? yeah him.. as much as we ourselves hate it, their enjoyment comes from wrecking up servers, its how they want to play it.. they care little about repercussions, bans or not being liked.. its their fuel.. likely why they continue do it :lol: Kinda like how we continue to play fairly and enjoy it that way.. I don't condone cheating, I don't want anyone to go easy on anyone who cheats.. but I'm a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty, and frankly, VAC does not prove any guilt in this game.

    I respect anyone who has opposing views because I know their intentions are good and they do these things to keep the game as clean and fair as possible, that much is evident by reading the thread.. and as a person who enjoys the game by playing fairly and actually liking a challenge, there's nothing wrong with wanting that.
    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    This seems like a useless conversation going nowhere... you people need to complain to Valve..

    I don't disagree with server admins giving no second chances.. imo second chances is the problem, cause without them many wouldnt even think of eating cheese in the first place.

    A certain league is about to gives second chances to cheaters caught in AAPG just last yr.. that's one way to ruin your league early..can't wait for that

    _____________________________
    #Support Comp Mode

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN4YhM6jUB2MxVj8i3b9rhw
  • -SD-DELTON-ACI--SD-DELTON-ACI- Posts: 1,471Player
    edited June 2016
    My name keeps being brought up here also my clan.
    Please stop deleting my post I have a right to reply to all this bs.

    First of all if ACI did not cover anticheat for this game I would never play it again.
    They are the only anticheat in my opinion that keep this game 99% clean from hackers.
    Think what the game would be like without them it would only last about 3 months before the game died and was left with just hackers playing it.
    As for VAC bans you got a VAC ban for doing something that the game does not allow
    that's cheating no matter how you dress it up.
    My clan spends about £600 per year on this game with servers ts and website all dedicated to Americas army proving grounds.
    Why should we let a hacker that gets a fee hack spoil our game and waist the money we spend on it.
    Like it or not if you hack in any game or get a VAC ban your not and never will be welcome on our server even if you continue playing until you 100 years old.
    You only cry after you get caught and as soon as a topic like this pops up you think its your big chance to get your ban forgotten about its never going to happen.
    If you don't like it stop trying to join severs you know are covered by anticheat or set up your own server and call it something like ALL HACKERS WELCOME.
    See how long it last.
    Please do not delete my post I have a right to voice my opinion.
    gKQ6BB2.png
  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    edited June 2016
    -SD-DELTON wrote: »
    My name keeps being brought up here also my clan.
    Please stop deleting my post I have a right to reply to all this bs.

    First of all if ACI did not cover anticheat for this game I would never play it again.
    They are the only anticheat in my opinion that keep this game 99% clean from hackers.
    Think what the game would be like without them it would only last about 3 months before the game died and was left with just hackers playing it.
    As for VAC bans you got a VAC ban for doing something that the game does not allow
    that's cheating no matter how you dress it up.
    My clan spends about £600 per year on this game with servers ts and website all dedicated to Americas army proving grounds.
    Why should we let a hacker that gets a fee hack spoil our game and waist the money we spend on it.
    Like it or not if you hack in any game or get a VAC ban your not and never will be welcome on our server even if you continue playing until you 100 years old.
    You only cry after you get caught and as soon as a topic like this pops up you think its your big chance to get your ban forgotten about its never going to happen.
    If you don't like it stop trying to join severs you know are covered by anticheat or set up your own server and call it something like ALL HACKERS WELCOME.
    See how long it last.
    Please do not delete my post I have a right to voice my opinion.

    Nobody have never argued that your clan doesnt have the right to do whatever they feel like. You can do as you wish since you pay. The only issue we brought up was that servers with the same mindset as yours are making it really hard to increase the playerbase for this game.
    And ive said multiple times that your clan is notorious for banning players and clans that do not have any bad history but the only thing they did wrong was outplay the members in your clan.

    As for the rest of your post nobody cried we were discussing the issue at hand, so please stop posting toxic comments
  • -SD-DELTON-ACI--SD-DELTON-ACI- Posts: 1,471Player
    -SD-DELTON wrote: »
    My name keeps being brought up here also my clan.
    Please stop deleting my post I have a right to reply to all this bs.

    First of all if ACI did not cover anticheat for this game I would never play it again.
    They are the only anticheat in my opinion that keep this game 99% clean from hackers.
    Think what the game would be like without them it would only last about 3 months before the game died and was left with just hackers playing it.
    As for VAC bans you got a VAC ban for doing something that the game does not allow
    that's cheating no matter how you dress it up.
    My clan spends about £600 per year on this game with servers ts and website all dedicated to Americas army proving grounds.
    Why should we let a hacker that gets a fee hack spoil our game and waist the money we spend on it.
    Like it or not if you hack in any game or get a VAC ban your not and never will be welcome on our server even if you continue playing until you 100 years old.
    You only cry after you get caught and as soon as a topic like this pops up you think its your big chance to get your ban forgotten about its never going to happen.
    If you don't like it stop trying to join severs you know are covered by anticheat or set up your own server and call it something like ALL HACKERS WELCOME.
    See how long it last.
    Please do not delete my post I have a right to voice my opinion.

    Nobody have never argued that your clan doesnt have the right to do whatever they feel like. You can do as you wish since you pay. The only issue we brought up was that servers with the same mindset as yours are making it really hard to increase the playerbase for this game.
    And ive said multiple times that your clan is notorious for banning players and clans that do not have any bad history but the only thing they did wrong was outplay the members in your clan.

    As for the rest of your post nobody cried we were discussing the issue at hand, so please stop posting toxic comments

    You got it wrong again -SD- never ban because a player is good they ban because.

    1.Racist Remarks/Admin abuse = Ban
    2.Cheaters ini changers or macro users will be banned.

    You clan is banned because of you, how does that make you feel not bad enough to stop you doing what you did.

    gKQ6BB2.png
  • -SD-DELTON-ACI--SD-DELTON-ACI- Posts: 1,471Player
    edited June 2016
    I think its wrong how a player can hack say at 12pm get caught at 12:03 pm and make a new account to hack at 12:05 pm. This is what should be stopped.
    Why can a player have so many accounts if hes hacking maybe the dev.s should do something about this.
    gKQ6BB2.png
Sign In or Register to comment.