Server admin and 3rd party site (PBBans/ACI/ETC) discussion

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  • venom.Blainevenom.Blaine Posts: 5Player
    I am writing this as I suffered with a unfair ban recently (Won't disclose any names) I was apart of a clan before venom, I left due to me being accused/Insulted, As soon as i left i was instantly kicked from the server/threatened to be banned, The reason given was because members did not want to play against me as i was playing different to them and hitting my shots, I was also threatened of being kicked for using the in game feature sliding, I would slide around corners and away from danger.

    I got better after playing with a clan and it was around 2 months after being in the clan I was getting accused of hacking, I play fps games all the time, xbox/pc/ps3 ect... I have quite a high end system aswell which means i get higher framerates and less timings, Meaning I see things before and things run more smoother (Not always the case but people with high end pc's will agree with me on this).

    I then joined venom and got a permanent ban.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    I am writing this as I suffered with a unfair ban recently (Won't disclose any names) I was apart of a clan before venom, I left due to me being accused/Insulted, As soon as i left i was instantly kicked from the server/threatened to be banned, The reason given was because members did not want to play against me as i was playing different to them and hitting my shots, I was also threatened of being kicked for using the in game feature sliding, I would slide around corners and away from danger.

    I got better after playing with a clan and it was around 2 months after being in the clan I was getting accused of hacking, I play fps games all the time, xbox/pc/ps3 ect... I have quite a high end system aswell which means i get higher framerates and less timings, Meaning I see things before and things run more smoother (Not always the case but people with high end pc's will agree with me on this).

    I then joined venom and got a permanent ban.

    That's AAPG community for you but doesn't really have anything to do with this topic.
  • venom.Blainevenom.Blaine Posts: 5Player
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    I am writing this as I suffered with a unfair ban recently (Won't disclose any names) I was apart of a clan before venom, I left due to me being accused/Insulted, As soon as i left i was instantly kicked from the server/threatened to be banned, The reason given was because members did not want to play against me as i was playing different to them and hitting my shots, I was also threatened of being kicked for using the in game feature sliding, I would slide around corners and away from danger.

    I got better after playing with a clan and it was around 2 months after being in the clan I was getting accused of hacking, I play fps games all the time, xbox/pc/ps3 ect... I have quite a high end system aswell which means i get higher framerates and less timings, Meaning I see things before and things run more smoother (Not always the case but people with high end pc's will agree with me on this).

    I then joined venom and got a permanent ban.

    That's AAPG community for you but doesn't really have anything to do with this topic.

    Well this discussion is about bans and i was banned for a unfair reason, Loads of players get banned if they are good players, I have never recieved a ACI ban or a VAC ban, Yet i have been banned when there is no evidence to justify these claims. Which make the ban unfair.
  • [Prt_Dictator][Prt_Dictator] Posts: 275Player
    Could a server rating system help mitigate badmins?
    In theory it might but, idk, considering its a free game it would probably be too easy abuse and manipulate the votes in either direction to the point of being worse.

    I say this because other that having better admins, which I don't see happening, the only way to prevent unfair bans is to distinguish good servers from bad ones and help players make better choices and avoid the bad ones. Right now there is no consequence for admins banning players incorrectly.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    I am writing this as I suffered with a unfair ban recently (Won't disclose any names) I was apart of a clan before venom, I left due to me being accused/Insulted, As soon as i left i was instantly kicked from the server/threatened to be banned, The reason given was because members did not want to play against me as i was playing different to them and hitting my shots, I was also threatened of being kicked for using the in game feature sliding, I would slide around corners and away from danger.

    I got better after playing with a clan and it was around 2 months after being in the clan I was getting accused of hacking, I play fps games all the time, xbox/pc/ps3 ect... I have quite a high end system aswell which means i get higher framerates and less timings, Meaning I see things before and things run more smoother (Not always the case but people with high end pc's will agree with me on this).

    I then joined venom and got a permanent ban.

    That's AAPG community for you but doesn't really have anything to do with this topic.

    Well this discussion is about bans and i was banned for a unfair reason, Loads of players get banned if they are good players, I have never recieved a ACI ban or a VAC ban, Yet i have been banned when there is no evidence to justify these claims. Which make the ban unfair.

    This is more about third party organisation and tools (ab)use by server admins, not really the case for your story, that's just plain hackusations. I know how admins in this community are (there is a little collection in my signature) but that's them as individuals and in the end they pay.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    Could a server rating system help mitigate badmins?
    In theory it might but, idk, considering its a free game it would probably be too easy abuse and manipulate the votes in either direction to the point of being worse.

    I say this because other that having better admins, which I don't see happening, the only way to prevent unfair bans is to distinguish good servers from bad ones and help players make better choices and avoid the bad ones. Right now there is no consequence for admins banning players incorrectly.

    What criteria would you use for voting though? I think no VAC secured servers are better for new players but would I upvote a server that allows rude players in voice? Probably not. Would I downvote every server that banned me for no reason? Probably not. The majority would probably upvote their most played server based on knowing the admins and having fun playing there, not their personal beliefs regarding administration. Before someone says that most played server equals best server I'll kindly disagree. A lot of players just stick to the server they played on as they get attached to the regulars on there. Took me half a year, a few videos about one of their clan members cheating followed by getting threatened with legal actions and obviously a server ban as well until I started looking for other servers.
  • venom.Blainevenom.Blaine Posts: 5Player
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    I am writing this as I suffered with a unfair ban recently (Won't disclose any names) I was apart of a clan before venom, I left due to me being accused/Insulted, As soon as i left i was instantly kicked from the server/threatened to be banned, The reason given was because members did not want to play against me as i was playing different to them and hitting my shots, I was also threatened of being kicked for using the in game feature sliding, I would slide around corners and away from danger.

    I got better after playing with a clan and it was around 2 months after being in the clan I was getting accused of hacking, I play fps games all the time, xbox/pc/ps3 ect... I have quite a high end system aswell which means i get higher framerates and less timings, Meaning I see things before and things run more smoother (Not always the case but people with high end pc's will agree with me on this).

    I then joined venom and got a permanent ban.

    That's AAPG community for you but doesn't really have anything to do with this topic.

    Well this discussion is about bans and i was banned for a unfair reason, Loads of players get banned if they are good players, I have never recieved a ACI ban or a VAC ban, Yet i have been banned when there is no evidence to justify these claims. Which make the ban unfair.

    This is more about third party organisation and tools (ab)use by server admins, not really the case for your story, that's just plain hackusations. I know how admins in this community are (there is a little collection in my signature) but that's them as individuals and in the end they pay.

    It was by a server Admin/Clan Leader but i do see what you mean
  • -SD-DELTON-ACI--SD-DELTON-ACI- Posts: 1,483Player
    edited June 2016
    Blaine don't cry because you left the clan move on m8.
    You know why your banned it had nothing to do with you leaving the clan or what a good player you claim to be.
    gKQ6BB2.png
  • [Prt_Dictator][Prt_Dictator] Posts: 275Player
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    What criteria would you use for voting though? I think no VAC secured servers are better for new players but would I upvote a server that allows rude players in voice? Probably not. Would I downvote every server that banned me for no reason? Probably not. The majority would probably upvote their most played server based on knowing the admins and having fun playing there, not their personal beliefs regarding administration. Before someone says that most played server equals best server I'll kindly disagree. A lot of players just stick to the server they played on as they get attached to the regulars on there. Took me half a year, a few videos about one of their clan members cheating followed by getting threatened with legal actions and obviously a server ban as well until I started looking for other servers.
    Yeah, I agree it would be difficult, if not impossible, to design a good voting system, but a the same time how good would be to have something that gives a penalty for admins that go crazy with power.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    edited June 2016
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    I am writing this as I suffered with a unfair ban recently (Won't disclose any names) I was apart of a clan before venom, I left due to me being accused/Insulted, As soon as i left i was instantly kicked from the server/threatened to be banned, The reason given was because members did not want to play against me as i was playing different to them and hitting my shots, I was also threatened of being kicked for using the in game feature sliding, I would slide around corners and away from danger.

    I got better after playing with a clan and it was around 2 months after being in the clan I was getting accused of hacking, I play fps games all the time, xbox/pc/ps3 ect... I have quite a high end system aswell which means i get higher framerates and less timings, Meaning I see things before and things run more smoother (Not always the case but people with high end pc's will agree with me on this).

    I then joined venom and got a permanent ban.

    That's AAPG community for you but doesn't really have anything to do with this topic.

    Well this discussion is about bans and i was banned for a unfair reason, Loads of players get banned if they are good players, I have never recieved a ACI ban or a VAC ban, Yet i have been banned when there is no evidence to justify these claims. Which make the ban unfair.

    This is more about third party organisation and tools (ab)use by server admins, not really the case for your story, that's just plain hackusations. I know how admins in this community are (there is a little collection in my signature) but that's them as individuals and in the end they pay.

    It was by a server Admin/Clan Leader but i do see what you mean

    Best advice I can give is recording evidence for cases like that and uploading it. Should've started earlier myself as I missed out on some really ridiculous stuff with clans teamkilling etc. but it's about time people realize how much injustice players receive on a daily basis. It's not just the typical jerks being cocky in voice, it's undeniably nice people like Uni or Son who have done a lot for the community as well.
  • venom.Blainevenom.Blaine Posts: 5Player
    -SD-DELTON wrote: »
    Blaine don't cry because you left the clan move on m8.
    You know why your banned it had nothing to do with you leaving the clan or what a good player you claim to be.

    I did not put names, But the reasons you gave me was because of me sliding, No one wanted to play against me, Because you didn't trust me. Those were the real reasons, You kicked me everytime i joined the server and permanently banned me from TS before i joined venom and you also removed me from steam once i joined venom., I am not crying over it I am simply stating facts.

    I am simply stating about unfair bans and that is the reason you have a empty server from time to time.
  • -=[USA]=-rubberboot-ACI--=[USA]=-rubberboot-ACI- Posts: 126Beta Tester
    I am not here to argue with anyone, as everyone is entitled to their opinion and as such I have one as well. I am Canadian, so I am fine with agreeing to disagree.

    Some of you I have played with, and my in-game name is -=[USA]=-rubberboot-ACI-.

    I am staff at ACI as part of the Punk Buster Screen Shot Staff. I volunteered for this position to help the gaming community catch the “dumb” artificially enhanced players. ACI maintains a MBL for PB Kicks and dirty screenshots – same way PBBans and GGC do. ACI does not Ban for VAC Bans. Neither does PBBans or GGC.

    ACI has no control of or policy on VAC Bans. We do not apply VAC ban on anything.

    Live Secure has an OPTION to kick for VAC Bans. Period. It searches for valid VAC Bans, and will kick for them if enabled by the server admin or owner. It was an option that was asked for by server owners. It is not on by default. The server owner had to make the conscious decision to check the box for it to be active on the server. All players have the option to convince the server owners not to use it.

    We have a history tool as well, and it has this statement in the Terms of Use –
    The information contained in this website is for general information purposes only and is provided by AntiCheat Inc, via streaming server data. ACI makes no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, reliability, or availability with respect to the website or the information, products, services, or related graphics contained on the website for any purpose. Any reliance you place on such information is therefore strictly at your own risk.

    We provide a service for Server Admins and Owners to look at the history of a player, which can show links to banned accounts. It is UP TO THEM on how they (the server owner/admin) choose to proceed from there. They have paid actual money out of pocket on a monthly basis to provide a server for themselves and others to play on. If they (the owner) does not want you to play on their server, that is their choice – regardless of reason why. It could be previous Banned accounts (VAC, PB) D-Bag behavior on the server, Racial Slurs, because you dated their sister, eat cheetos, or even because you watch wrestling in your underwear on a Saturday afternoon. Their option and choice…

    How is this ACI’s fault? We provided options and tools to Server owners… I hope everyone realizes that this is no different than buying a car. What would you do, if you went to the dealer and said you wanted a red car and they said we only sell them in green? Odds are, you are going to go to another dealer so you can get a red one

    We were not the first one to make a tool that could locate VAC bans, and IIRC it would post the info into the feed on the game. It was created by a clan which either doesn’t play anymore or changed their name… I could look it up yet I don’t think it would add anything to the discussion.

    I find it a little disheartening that ACI is being blamed here. We are not the only ones in supporting a Master Ban List. AACMs will wipe your authentication if you are caught using enhancements, VAC will NOT reverse a ban regardless of what triggered it, and it is right on the Steam website
    All VAC bans are permanent - Valve has a zero-tolerance policy for cheating and will not lift VAC bans on request.

    After reading that ALL VAC BANS ARE PERMANENT, how is it that ACI is at fault for "enforcing VAC bans" by putting a selectable option in for server owners who made a conscious choice to use it?

    It’s not, and you know it.

    Why is it that the player never takes responsibility for getting themselves in the position to be on a MBL (private, PBGL, VAC, etc) in the first place? I’m sorry that you got banned for <insert reason here>, yet you got yourself in that position – no one else did – whether it was you, lack of account security or something you downloaded that caused it. If it was 1 year ago or 10 years ago take ownership for your actions. Don’t blame others because they don’t trust you.

    As for serial enhanced players, I just looked up 1 player with 14 AAPG banned accounts (both PB and PBSS related) and 1 account with a VAC ban. That doesn’t include the ones that were probably deactivated by the AACM’s after getting caught on the officials....

    You tell me, would he be someone you would want to play with?
  • -SD-DELTON-ACI--SD-DELTON-ACI- Posts: 1,483Player
    Why is it that the player never takes responsibility for getting themselves in the position to be on a MBL (private, PBGL, VAC, etc) in the first place? I’m sorry that you got banned for <insert reason here>, yet you got yourself in that position – no one else did – whether it was you, lack of account security or something you downloaded that caused it. If it was 1 year ago or 10 years ago take ownership for your actions. Don’t blame others because they don’t trust you.

    +1
    gKQ6BB2.png
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    Issue is that admins check the box without knowing anything about VAC just like you. VAC bans are permanently visible on your profile and permanent as in not going to be removed even if you sacrifice your first born but they don't last indefinitely. Why doesn't ACI teach their people about it if the goal is to improve community and private server experience? Your box to most admins currently reads as: "Do you want more protection?" and they will go "[TOS Violation] YEAH, I WANT THAT!". Yet again, VAC bans aren't even 100% cheat-related.

    Same goes for history tool, you even have 2 examples in here. Banned for shared IP and even more stupid, banned for using the same playername at some point. Why is there no teaching? And no, I don't mean the voluntary teaching that obviously is useless.
  • -SD-DELTON-ACI--SD-DELTON-ACI- Posts: 1,483Player
    Anyone can find a VAC ban even if your not part of ACI/GGC/PBBANS.
    gKQ6BB2.png
  • -VI-ImaHustler-VI-ImaHustler Posts: 81Player
    I am not here to argue with anyone, as everyone is entitled to their opinion and as such I have one as well. I am Canadian, so I am fine with agreeing to disagree.

    Some of you I have played with, and my in-game name is -=[USA]=-rubberboot-ACI-.

    I am staff at ACI as part of the Punk Buster Screen Shot Staff. I volunteered for this position to help the gaming community catch the “dumb” artificially enhanced players. ACI maintains a MBL for PB Kicks and dirty screenshots – same way PBBans and GGC do. ACI does not Ban for VAC Bans. Neither does PBBans or GGC.

    ACI has no control of or policy on VAC Bans. We do not apply VAC ban on anything.

    Live Secure has an OPTION to kick for VAC Bans. Period. It searches for valid VAC Bans, and will kick for them if enabled by the server admin or owner. It was an option that was asked for by server owners. It is not on by default. The server owner had to make the conscious decision to check the box for it to be active on the server. All players have the option to convince the server owners not to use it.

    We have a history tool as well, and it has this statement in the Terms of Use –
    The information contained in this website is for general information purposes only and is provided by AntiCheat Inc, via streaming server data. ACI makes no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, reliability, or availability with respect to the website or the information, products, services, or related graphics contained on the website for any purpose. Any reliance you place on such information is therefore strictly at your own risk.

    We provide a service for Server Admins and Owners to look at the history of a player, which can show links to banned accounts. It is UP TO THEM on how they (the server owner/admin) choose to proceed from there. They have paid actual money out of pocket on a monthly basis to provide a server for themselves and others to play on. If they (the owner) does not want you to play on their server, that is their choice – regardless of reason why. It could be previous Banned accounts (VAC, PB) D-Bag behavior on the server, Racial Slurs, because you dated their sister, eat cheetos, or even because you watch wrestling in your underwear on a Saturday afternoon. Their option and choice…

    How is this ACI’s fault? We provided options and tools to Server owners… I hope everyone realizes that this is no different than buying a car. What would you do, if you went to the dealer and said you wanted a red car and they said we only sell them in green? Odds are, you are going to go to another dealer so you can get a red one

    We were not the first one to make a tool that could locate VAC bans, and IIRC it would post the info into the feed on the game. It was created by a clan which either doesn’t play anymore or changed their name… I could look it up yet I don’t think it would add anything to the discussion.

    I find it a little disheartening that ACI is being blamed here. We are not the only ones in supporting a Master Ban List. AACMs will wipe your authentication if you are caught using enhancements, VAC will NOT reverse a ban regardless of what triggered it, and it is right on the Steam website
    All VAC bans are permanent - Valve has a zero-tolerance policy for cheating and will not lift VAC bans on request.

    After reading that ALL VAC BANS ARE PERMANENT, how is it that ACI is at fault for "enforcing VAC bans" by putting a selectable option in for server owners who made a conscious choice to use it?

    It’s not, and you know it.

    Why is it that the player never takes responsibility for getting themselves in the position to be on a MBL (private, PBGL, VAC, etc) in the first place? I’m sorry that you got banned for <insert reason here>, yet you got yourself in that position – no one else did – whether it was you, lack of account security or something you downloaded that caused it. If it was 1 year ago or 10 years ago take ownership for your actions. Don’t blame others because they don’t trust you.

    As for serial enhanced players, I just looked up 1 player with 14 AAPG banned accounts (both PB and PBSS related) and 1 account with a VAC ban. That doesn’t include the ones that were probably deactivated by the AACM’s after getting caught on the officials....

    You tell me, would he be someone you would want to play with?

    Im really happy that you have come to share your opinion.
    I just want to point out that nobody really blames ACI for this issue. We know very well that ACI is only providing the tool
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    You guys have issues with Badmins because you get banned for having a dirty history regardless of how that history came about.. I get banned and have a clean history.. do I get to complain now?
    _____________________________
    #Support Comp Mode

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN4YhM6jUB2MxVj8i3b9rhw
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    You guys have issues with Badmins because you get banned for having a dirty history regardless of how that history came about.. I get banned and have a clean history.. do I get to complain now?

    How about we found some organisation keeping track of badmins?
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    I am not here to argue with anyone, as everyone is entitled to their opinion and as such I have one as well. I am Canadian, so I am fine with agreeing to disagree.

    Some of you I have played with, and my in-game name is -=[USA]=-rubberboot-ACI-.

    I am staff at ACI as part of the Punk Buster Screen Shot Staff. I volunteered for this position to help the gaming community catch the “dumb” artificially enhanced players. ACI maintains a MBL for PB Kicks and dirty screenshots – same way PBBans and GGC do. ACI does not Ban for VAC Bans. Neither does PBBans or GGC.

    ACI has no control of or policy on VAC Bans. We do not apply VAC ban on anything.

    Live Secure has an OPTION to kick for VAC Bans. Period. It searches for valid VAC Bans, and will kick for them if enabled by the server admin or owner. It was an option that was asked for by server owners. It is not on by default. The server owner had to make the conscious decision to check the box for it to be active on the server. All players have the option to convince the server owners not to use it.

    We have a history tool as well, and it has this statement in the Terms of Use –
    The information contained in this website is for general information purposes only and is provided by AntiCheat Inc, via streaming server data. ACI makes no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, reliability, or availability with respect to the website or the information, products, services, or related graphics contained on the website for any purpose. Any reliance you place on such information is therefore strictly at your own risk.

    We provide a service for Server Admins and Owners to look at the history of a player, which can show links to banned accounts. It is UP TO THEM on how they (the server owner/admin) choose to proceed from there. They have paid actual money out of pocket on a monthly basis to provide a server for themselves and others to play on. If they (the owner) does not want you to play on their server, that is their choice – regardless of reason why. It could be previous Banned accounts (VAC, PB) D-Bag behavior on the server, Racial Slurs, because you dated their sister, eat cheetos, or even because you watch wrestling in your underwear on a Saturday afternoon. Their option and choice…

    How is this ACI’s fault? We provided options and tools to Server owners… I hope everyone realizes that this is no different than buying a car. What would you do, if you went to the dealer and said you wanted a red car and they said we only sell them in green? Odds are, you are going to go to another dealer so you can get a red one

    We were not the first one to make a tool that could locate VAC bans, and IIRC it would post the info into the feed on the game. It was created by a clan which either doesn’t play anymore or changed their name… I could look it up yet I don’t think it would add anything to the discussion.

    I find it a little disheartening that ACI is being blamed here. We are not the only ones in supporting a Master Ban List. AACMs will wipe your authentication if you are caught using enhancements, VAC will NOT reverse a ban regardless of what triggered it, and it is right on the Steam website
    All VAC bans are permanent - Valve has a zero-tolerance policy for cheating and will not lift VAC bans on request.

    After reading that ALL VAC BANS ARE PERMANENT, how is it that ACI is at fault for "enforcing VAC bans" by putting a selectable option in for server owners who made a conscious choice to use it?

    It’s not, and you know it.

    Why is it that the player never takes responsibility for getting themselves in the position to be on a MBL (private, PBGL, VAC, etc) in the first place? I’m sorry that you got banned for <insert reason here>, yet you got yourself in that position – no one else did – whether it was you, lack of account security or something you downloaded that caused it. If it was 1 year ago or 10 years ago take ownership for your actions. Don’t blame others because they don’t trust you.

    As for serial enhanced players, I just looked up 1 player with 14 AAPG banned accounts (both PB and PBSS related) and 1 account with a VAC ban. That doesn’t include the ones that were probably deactivated by the AACM’s after getting caught on the officials....

    You tell me, would he be someone you would want to play with?

    Im really happy that you have come to share your opinion.
    I just want to point out that nobody really blames ACI for this issue. We know very well that ACI is only providing the tool

    Well, I blame them for not educating their members and just watching them abuse their tools and name to justify bans and for providing stalking tools annoying people who just want to play peacefully. Oh, did I mention their unprofessionalism of banning people who are criticizing them?

    Its not theyre job to educate.
    Using rubberboot great example, if a dealer sell a car to you he does not have to teach you how to drive.
    He can show you the features of the car but its not his job to tell you to use or not to use them.

    It's a terrible analogy and I'm not even saying it's their job to educate. All I'm saying is if they want to be able to claim they are improving the community and private server experience they should educate their admins. As it is, all the negativity ACI (admins abusing their tools) brings with it is not worth it having it at all.
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    edited June 2016
    I dont think anyone here is blaming ACI for anything, pretty sure we all agree that cheaters are a bain on the game and understand that ACI only wants to help keep us safe and free from them.

    We are talking about anti cheat methods.. VAC tells us nothing about a person or his/her reason for recieving the ban.. not at all that he/she did anything wrong whatsoever on this game. It's not about letting people off or giving them a pass.. its about not knowing what the circumstances and background of such a system are and why that person even got the VAC ban in the first place.. in that respect and the fact AAPG uses Punkbuster and not VAC is enough to tell me that to ban for VAC is a flawed system to use.

    Everyone wants a cheat free game and its understandable to do everything in ones power to keep it out.. but not at the risk of losing potentially innocent people to something that aint even reliable proof they have done anything wrong.

    This game cannot allow to suffer the consequences of collateral damage.. it dont have the numbers to excuse such practice, imo.
    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






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