Veto System

iNv|roKis-iNv|roKis- Posts: 420Player
Since this ish is not catchingt raction but there are players who are for the idea. Here is my proposal.
Currently AAPG plays weekly with maps known in advance. There has been some drama about teams practicing the up and coming map before the map was released to the other teams. I also think that scrimming one single map over and over is boring.

So, introduce the veto system as they use for csgo.

Currently we have these maps in the pool that are playable on a 5v5 match:

SS, Breach, Intercept, Watchdog, Siege, Inner, Checkout, Shadowstep, and Crossfire.

The veto for a BO3 would work like this:

ban1-ban2-pick1-pick2-ban1-ban2-randomized by a tool/site (there are 3 maps available)
There is a site we can use, but I would like to use an AAPG site if anyone is willing to create it.



for a BO1

we would do bans until there is 1 map.

ban1-ban2-ban1-ban2-ban1-ban2-ban1-ban2-MAP



Why do all this?

Well, this would make teams do their [TOS Violation] homework on the other team. It would also cause randomization of games for the week, and since the picks would happen half hour prior to match, teams can't practice one single map for 6 days. It would take a lot more teamwork than just yoloing a map you half assed through out the week.

Thoughts?
Bhop is a string of jumps with no interruptions.
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Comments

  • i9.america+i9.america+ Posts: 29Player
    edited April 2016
    I look like yes and you look like no. That's all I got sorry.

    The veto system you just posted is literally copy and paste from CS:GO. Im all for it though as I would like to see multiple maps, not just a single map, determine the outcome of the overall match.

    61439619629.png
    IceNine Gaming | FGN League AC Admin
  • iNv|roKis-iNv|roKis- Posts: 420Player
    Well BO1 would still have one single map, but you won't know which map until you do the bans.
    Currently for FN for the finals we pick a map each, but I want to use the bans in order to avoid teams picking their strongest maps.
    Bhop is a string of jumps with no interruptions.
  • i9.america+i9.america+ Posts: 29Player
    BO1's are more tournament style for single/double elim, if were talking that route of picking it 30 minutes before the match.
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    IceNine Gaming | FGN League AC Admin
  • iNv|roKis-iNv|roKis- Posts: 420Player
    Here is an example of the site I wanted to have for AAPG https://csgomapveto.com/lobby/7U4SQ

    and we would substitute crossfire for harbor.
    Bhop is a string of jumps with no interruptions.
  • [kT]Trigga[kT]Trigga Posts: 102Player
    I think the idea is awesome. Hopefully we can implement this into our leagues
  • iNv|roKis-iNv|roKis- Posts: 420Player
    Trying to get more people to support the idea. Hopefully after the test with i9 people will jump on it. Denial doesn't think it's a good idea.
    Bhop is a string of jumps with no interruptions.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    We used a veto system in ESL and from my experience it really added to the competition. Good example was probably AAPGversus where SL coming in as an underdog team won every(?) match on Intercept very convincingly, yet other teams missed their chance to ban it. Also a great time filler for casters to talk about while waiting for the match to start.
  • iNv|roKis-iNv|roKis- Posts: 420Player
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    We used a veto system in ESL and from my experience it really added to the competition. Good example was probably AAPGversus where SL coming in as an underdog team won every(?) match on Intercept very convincingly, yet other teams missed their chance to ban it. Also a great time filler for casters to talk about while waiting for the match to start.

    We noticed you guys used in 15'. Really hope to add to the community and this is exactly what i needed to hear.
    Bhop is a string of jumps with no interruptions.
  • {4F}DeadlyGrouse{4F}DeadlyGrouse Posts: 277Player
    I like the idea as well. Not a big fan of scrimming one map over and over. plus you need to know your stuff and hope you pick the right maps.
  • [kT]Trigga[kT]Trigga Posts: 102Player
    Really think this should be mandatory in every league. This spices thnigs up for teams who are the so called "Underdog" and keeps every team on there toes. Spread the word guys!
    #TeamVeto
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited April 2016
    Really think this should be mandatory in every league. This spices thnigs up for teams who are the so called "Underdog" and keeps every team on there toes. Spread the word guys!
    #TeamVeto

    Down to use this method in future but I have to disagree with what you say about the underdog I think it helps the better team more than it would help the underdog. The better team will have the an easier time setting up a proper setup on the fly and therefore the better chance to win. The underdog would need to practice the map all week to win or have a chance.
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • iNv|roKis-iNv|roKis- Posts: 420Player
    edited April 2016
    inv vs i9 with the veto in the beginning.

    Bhop is a string of jumps with no interruptions.
  • -hyperlite--hyperlite- Posts: 102Player
    For me personally, I don't see this as a viable option during the regular season. I say this because during the regular season you want to try and make things as fair as possible. Playing the same map for everyone eliminates the chance for teams to play their best few maps numerous times during the season against multiple teams.
    When a league is decided by record and then rounds won, then every round matters. Adding this option changes the dynamic so much that it adds an unnecessary variable to the equation. I think it will unbalance the league too much during the season. The variable of playing a good team is and always will be apart of a season whether its their best map or not.
    Teams could be killing it in the r/w category because they played their 2 best maps during the season 3 or 4 times.

    I say this because you didnt specify if it was bo1 or bo3. Bo1 teams have a high probability of playing a map they are great at. Bo3 just sounds like its gonna be a long night and one that is probably better served during the playoffs.

    This method also caters to the more experienced team that has already had multiple matches on all of the maps. Imagine a new team trying to get into comp play and finding out they are playing a match on a map/maps they haven't played on yet or has had only 1 or 2 matches on that map with little scrim experience in 30 minutes.

    If you would have come out and said we want the veto system for the playoffs I could understand that method. Once playoffs have started you have teams that have done some homework and are good enough to make it to that level of play.
    Or if you had said we want the veto system for the main/invite teams I could have at least laughed at the thought, that you think there is enough teams to break up into divisions. But you never said that.

  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player

    Teams could be killing it in the r/w category because they played their 2 best maps during the season 3 or 4 times.

    Also why I don't like this, sure it works in a playoff overtime match but regular season if we have to play the same 3 maps all season that is a fail.

    I see nothing wrong with what we currently have, everyone knows the schedule ahead of time, gives teams time to prepare strats, and we play a new map every week.
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  • iNv|roKis-iNv|roKis- Posts: 420Player
    edited April 2016
    Correct for play offs, I was looking at BO3. Ultimately depends on the admins. We actually made a huge mistake on the bans last night. We knew i9 would have picked crossfire, but we decided to ban inner instead because it's a very big map with loads of variables we were not so comfortable with. It was a mistake and we paid for it by losing that map 8-5. But the other two maps we laid down a smackdown. 8-4 and 8-3 respectively, Siege was random. IMO i think it worked out extremely well since the rules for FN was each team picks one and intercept was the OT map. With veto we had the chance of blocking the opponents best choice which we failed to do.

    For regular season it would be a BO1. Ban all maps until there is 1. I understand your concern for the smaller teams playing a map they never played, but shouldn't they be doing their homework and practicing? These smaller teams SOME will go into scrims and do the work, most just wing it. I like to think the VETO also brings knowing your opponents BEST choices for a win. It's much more involved.
    I suppose we can do next FGN season with known map list and go into veto for playoffs let it be BO1 or BO3. Perhaps in the 3rd season we could go full veto mode as we probably will have very little if any new sign ups.

    Thoughts?

    Also thanks for the input Hyper.

    EDIT: I like to add that with all the casting available, teams can do their homework on how other teams work. The iNv forums is plastered with casting videos on other teams (including the EU casts) in order to get a grip of their game play. Not everyone watches, but one player that does and relays the info is of great help. We also spend maybe 2 or 3 hr max that totals literally only one night of the week in practice per week as a complete set. All other days we are not on or people are missing. Everyone has a life outside of the game.


    Doba,
    We would not do BO3 for the entire season, that's too long. We would do BO1, and maps would be different due to teams banning maps to the last one. Highly doubt each game would repeat very often. 5 Games a week, there's a good chance of all games having different map choices out of a map pool of 9, unless all teams are only confortable playing spring street or some ish. I highly doubt tho because we wuld be banning 8 times 4 on each side. There's a likelyhood you'll be playing Harbor, which is not favorite for everyone but hey beats playing DC on checkout right? So I see the potential, we should scrim and do a BO1 ban and see how it works out and how it feels to do it.
    Bhop is a string of jumps with no interruptions.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    I feel only CS players know the difference between BO1,2,3,4,5... this is new to AA player base.
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  • iNv|roKis-iNv|roKis- Posts: 420Player
    edited April 2016
    Sure it is new, not doubt about that. I actually just had a small talk on whatsapp with some of the guys, and it really comes down to. Who follows csgo knows exactly what I am talking about and who doesn't is scared of the idea. I am sure Ek, Colts and Krux would come up with a very detailed explanation of the system and how it should work.
    As I also stated, I am willing to put up the money to buy the page from csgomapveto for a port with AAPG maps which would be hosted on the team-invaders.com domain, that way the selection would be done prior to match time and a much faster way by lobbying the captains and doing the selection. It would literally take a five minutes to learn it.
    I also understand Hyperlite's point, small teams may get discouraged due to playing possible maps they never played. However with a map pool of 9 maps, I highly doubt that's an issue, it will really come down to whether they put in time to go over their positions for a possible map. Eventually these maps would be so over played they will be experienced on it. It boils down to scrim scrim scrim.


    A thread I opened about new teams
    http://forum.americasarmy.com/discussion/4958/to-the-new-teams#latest

    We also tend to get B-team INV in for fgn season 2.
    Bhop is a string of jumps with no interruptions.
  • -VI-#Sunvon.--VI-#Sunvon.- Posts: 47Player
    I think this game should be more random, we should let the randomness pick the map lol
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited April 2016
    My intention would be to only use this for playoffs at this current time. If a system is put in place where doing this during regular season would become viable, fast and simple. Then it is definitely something we can look at doing. Definitely needs testing. And if we were to do this regular season maps already played would have to be removed from map pool(This the map pool would need to be lower between 3-5 maps and changed weekly). It could get very complicated but is an interesting idea.
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • iNv|roKis-iNv|roKis- Posts: 420Player
    Why? play the same map pool..that defeats the god [TOS Violation] purpose of the system.....
    Bhop is a string of jumps with no interruptions.
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