Good job on making the final 10 guys, and cool to see so many ppl entering maps for the competition.
It would be cool to see a competition in the future with no external assets of any kind but only what the fully loaded advanced editor provides. To me thats a competition on equal terms.
I get the idea of no external assets , but I think it would restrict the capabilities of the editor and reduce the amount of creativity that people learn from all the things that can be done with external stuff.
Just got to play Creeping. I like the look, but there are way too many hiding places (especially with the fog). Also one of the objectives is so easy to just toss nades everywhere.
You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
I did the Alpha1 map(s). It's only my second - it probably shows. But to get better, could you please give me your take on my maps. What was good, bad and ugly about them. I hope it will give me an insight in to making better maps!
I really enjoyed this contest. I am sure we all did. Making maps is hard but also fun - I normally develop software. It's another creative outlet!
I hope you might consider doing this every six months or so. There is not a good way for starting map makers to have others review their work except by somehow getting connected to a server group.
Just got to play Creeping. I like the look, but there are way too many hiding places (especially with the fog). Also one of the objectives is so easy to just toss nades everywhere.
Also where the objectives are its all wood so you can just shoot through it. Not good to have your only form of cover when planting an objective shootable via wooden everything.
Most of the maps need to tone down on the hiding places. Especially areas that give sightlines of the entire map or most of the map. These are really only ok if the player is completely exposed of some what exposed. If you can only see a players head that is in one of these op sightlines it can really ruin your map as well as the overall fun of the map.
(Sm)AllTerrain (Keebler750) - This map has a good concept however 2 extractions is not good unless one team is defense. The map could work if each extraction was near each sides spawn area and the opposite extraction you spawn near is the one you would have to extract too with both teams attacking. Another possible way to test would be 2 extractions each near each spawn both teams attack and either team can extract at each one, could be some potential intense gameplay.
Cabin Fever TH (=groundhog=) - This map needs to clear up some of the OP sightlines. It is one of my favorites but some of the sightlines give you too much coverage remember how snipers already blend in really good with rocks so adding bushes/grass/trees near these sightlines make it even harder to see the sniper. Basically right now a sniper can go and have a camp snipe kill fest with an m14 on a rock. This map may be amazing with no m14 or m24 snipers.
Creeping (Gindungo_ANG) - This map need better objective coverage (you should not be able to shoot through any floor or wall and also have many windows in an objective room, also ability to see through the cracks in the wood. It's a camper paradise no point in having objectives here) and not so many hiding places. The tower is OP you can see the whole map and you get good coverage going up there. If team knows what they are doing they will take advantage of this too easily. You also have all weapons open so this really doesn't give your map a chance from the very start. Nobody wants to play maps like this with a potential 12v12 sniper fest. Yah sure it ensures everyone can have same gun. But it completely prevents anyone from really seeing how your map plays.
Ghost Rider (=[SK]=Ronniii*DK) - Really like this map. It can seem very cluttered at first but I think once players get to know the map it would be fine.
Jungle Hunt (-Flops-) - This map needs some objective coverage. There should be buildings for each objective. There is just way to many spots to hide to cover objectives. I can guaranteed you if you live the map as is and it gets picked it will soon become a map not very many want to play. If you give each objective buildings for cover I think this map can be one of the best.
Mud Boggin (-Flops-) - I like the concept and route layout of this map. My only real issue with it is lack of access to key areas due to the barb wire fence I would remove the barb wire fence that is west and the barb wire fence that is south. That will give your map the best possible play scenarios.
Patrol Trapped (RedBaron64(ITA)) - I really like this map, hope to see it make it.
Resistance (=R*C=-snom-) - This map needs objective switching up badly. As the map is currently both the west and east hills are pretty render useless and anyone going up there is not helping their team at all. This is because you have both objectives on the train so in reality all each team needs to do is rush the train bridge. If you put an objective in the east hills and west hills this will help your map greatly. Even a 3rd in the bridge could work for C4. Also you would be able to do an activate objective version with the same 3 obj layouts.
Stone Ruins (RedBaron64(ITA)) - I really like the concept of this map but IMO this map is too much for me hurts my eyes, too many areas to hide, your ruin placement does not really make sense. You give defense all the vantage points and tall buildings to go into. If defense spawned in the north east and you move the objective more to middle of map or figure out the new spawn timings with defense spawn in the north east your map would be more balanced. I also only played this one match and the other team I was against was a lot better. However they got to our spawn very quickly. Which does not make any sense considering how big the map is.
Worksite (=U^S=_Mason) - I like this map. I would really like to see a C4 gametype as well even an activate game type could work too. If you need help with objective placement on C4 or if you want to do an activate as well let me know Mason I'm more than willing to help out. I think your map could be even funner on a C4 gametype mode.
My current TOP 3 as is(assuming no changes are made to other maps)
-Worksite
-Ghostrider
-Patrol Trapped
Overall if some of these maps were tweaked just a few things I think you could easily bring on more out of the top 10 into official maps.
For Jungle hunt I really think this map is limited due to the unreal engine 3 and dx9. There is just way too many hiding places and hidin place engine glitches to deal with. Same thing with creeping.
Thanks for the input i appreciate it all , Jungle hunt has no buildings simply because the contest was great outdoors, some maps in the contest do have buildings and i notice a lot of the game play revolves around these building , i love the map work site its awesome fun to play but the floor area under cover including all levels of floors is around 35% of the map and the 70% of the game play revolves around those buildings which i dont think is very outdoors , so i tried to go with covers in other ways . Mudboggin yes i could see your point there but there is 8 access points to the objectives . How many do you really need lol . i did struggle with mudboggin a bit because i love the map and people wanted me to put more buildings in for cover ,but i tried to stay true the contest and to be honest i like it the way it is .
I'm not sure what you mean about my mao...I have spectated many many matches on it and found little to no engagements taking place inside the buildings. Certainly the balconies and roof (which are "outdoors") ,are used but still the majority of game play was terrain based. Ohh well.
"9 people make up over 50% of all of the posts on this forums.
The VAST majority of our players just play."
I'm not sure what you mean about my mao...I have spectated many many matches on it and found little to no engagements taking place inside the buildings. Certainly the balconies and roof (which are "outdoors") ,are used but still the majority of game play was terrain based. Ohh well.
Its all good everyone plays the game differently i am just going by the server i play on and have viewed.
I've played most of these maps and really appreciate the hard work that went into making them. The realism of the terrain is very good but there are many cleaning issues. The problem with the great outdoors is that there are many places where you can find yourself stuck to rocks like a fly on fly paper. My favourite is "Creeping" for the ability to stalk through the reed beds and come within feet of opfor without them seeing you, and in my case, without me seeing them. The rate of play is slow but the tension is high, especially when played in Hard Core mode! I'd remove the steel platform tower in Creeping as it is out of character and too armour plated for my liking.
Game play on all these maps brings players into a greater co-operative mode with an increase in comms and less frantic "kill house" shooting. Objectives tend to be taken more seriously on the out door maps and killing down to the last man less frequent.
I think all the maps have tremendous potential. I imagine devs wanted the general idea of the map/the best one could do and now they'll fix stuff that doesn't make sense/is poorly executed. That's how I would do it anyway.
Thanks for the input i appreciate it all , Jungle hunt has no buildings simply because the contest was great outdoors, some maps in the contest do have buildings and i notice a lot of the game play revolves around these building , i love the map work site its awesome fun to play but the floor area under cover including all levels of floors is around 35% of the map and the 70% of the game play revolves around those buildings which i dont think is very outdoors , so i tried to go with covers in other ways . Mudboggin yes i could see your point there but there is 8 access points to the objectives . How many do you really need lol . i did struggle with mudboggin a bit because i love the map and people wanted me to put more buildings in for cover ,but i tried to stay true the contest and to be honest i like it the way it is .
Its difficult to make a map with no buildings at all. You got to provide cover else where. Jungle hunt is very open. River basin from America's Army 1 fits the great outdoors theme perfectly and it has buildings. In the ends its your map to do with what you want just telling you whats hurting your map from achieving its full fun potential.
I did the Alpha1 map(s). It's only my second - it probably shows. But to get better, could you please give me your take on my maps. What was good, bad and ugly about them. I hope it will give me an insight in to making better maps!
I really enjoyed this contest. I am sure we all did. Making maps is hard but also fun - I normally develop software. It's another creative outlet!
I hope you might consider doing this every six months or so. There is not a good way for starting map makers to have others review their work except by somehow getting connected to a server group.
Thanks !!
Hi Scarbone , if you have maps that are playable let me know we would be glad to try them on the Beer_Me Servers and get you some feed back from the players.
Thanks for the input i appreciate it all , Jungle hunt has no buildings simply because the contest was great outdoors, some maps in the contest do have buildings and i notice a lot of the game play revolves around these building , i love the map work site its awesome fun to play but the floor area under cover including all levels of floors is around 35% of the map and the 70% of the game play revolves around those buildings which i dont think is very outdoors , so i tried to go with covers in other ways . Mudboggin yes i could see your point there but there is 8 access points to the objectives . How many do you really need lol . i did struggle with mudboggin a bit because i love the map and people wanted me to put more buildings in for cover ,but i tried to stay true the contest and to be honest i like it the way it is .
Its difficult to make a map with no buildings at all. You got to provide cover else where. Jungle hunt is very open. River basin from America's Army 1 fits the great outdoors theme perfectly and it has buildings. In the ends its your map to do with what you want just telling you whats hurting your map from achieving its full fun potential.
Thats fine like i said everyone plays differently , jungle hunt has quite a nice following of people who love it and if you work as a team and use your resources correctly every objective is quiet easy to achieve , Its all about teamwork
I did the Alpha1 map(s). It's only my second - it probably shows. But to get better, could you please give me your take on my maps. What was good, bad and ugly about them. I hope it will give me an insight in to making better maps!
I really enjoyed this contest. I am sure we all did. Making maps is hard but also fun - I normally develop software. It's another creative outlet!
I hope you might consider doing this every six months or so. There is not a good way for starting map makers to have others review their work except by somehow getting connected to a server group.
Thanks !!
Hey ScarBone, thanks for the map submissions! We are glad you enjoyed the process and we will definitely be doing another one soon.
The main good you can pull out of your map is the objective setup. The options to choose extract or C4 plant is nice and can potentially lead to pretty varied gameplay. With the placement of those objectives though, it seems like the Flag Extract is the no-brainer choice every time. The flag is just so close to Attack spawn that they could potentially just run up the hill, do a quick snag and take it back towards their base for a quick win. That approach, even with some risk, is more likely to succeed than planting a bombing and defending it for 40 seconds.
The map itself is kind of small, with the majority of those playspace focusing within 75m of each spawn point. I would recommend using more of the map and moving the flag extract near the defense side of the map. That way attackers have to choose between moving through enemy lines or planting nearer to their spawn and holding out. By opening up the map some more, it would also give you the opportunity to flesh out your key sites better (Flag home, extract point, and plant site). You could make the mountain bigger with more routes up, provide more cover around the plant site and build out a cool extract point. This would also make the need to the underground areas less necessary, helping to focus the map in more.
Beyond that, the map could certainly be cleaned up a bit. By that I mean, the terrain needs some smoothing out a good deal in some areas and the assets you are using are not always put together cleanly. These steps will not only help the map look better, but would also help with collision issues and the like. For good examples of clean/polished maps take a look at some of the maps we picked for our Top 10 like Worksite, Jungle Hunt, and Mud Boggin (among others).
I hope you find this feedback helpful and look forward to seeing what you create moving forward!
Thanks for responding to my request with such detail!!! I thought that size map was on the large size, from what I have been reading in the forum. I wanted to make it bigger but held back. I had hope you'all would like the multi-objectives - thought it might encourage team work.
I am looking forward to the next one and will try to use your suggestions !
Now I haven't played all the maps yet, but from what I see there are two trends here..
1. Bush heavy maps which create a boring gameplay.
2. Open maps with randomly placed objects everywhere and no real sense of direction...just scatter everywhere team.
Only positives I can say is the way Cabin fever uses hills for lanes with a slight combo of tree cover and buildings for obj.
Love the lighting on patrol trapped but falls right in #2 trend.
Now I haven't played all the maps yet, but from what I see there are two trends here..
1. Bush heavy maps which create a boring gameplay.
2. Open maps with randomly placed objects everywhere and no real sense of direction...just scatter everywhere team.
Only positives I can say is the way Cabin fever uses hills for lanes with a slight combo of tree cover and buildings for obj.
Love the lighting on patrol trapped but falls right in #2 trend.
Creeping has a cool environment..however see #1
Mud bogging is cool, lacks distinct lanes
Sorry Doba, but in an outdoor map you cannot pretend to have 2 chokes point and only two lanes like a 'bedroom' map. 'Bush are boring' is your idea but in an outdoor map bushes could be an important factor. I made 'patrol trapped' and, as already said, is not a 'bedroom' map. The idea is to have two lines of players that, from respective spawnpoints, trying to advance and capture all 'objective sites'. The obj sites are not putted randomly everywhere but two are in positions that could be conquered with flanking maneuvres and not only frontal assault while the third, that in the middle, is disputed frontally and should work as choke point.
The sense of direction of the teams is from one spawn point against opposite spawn point, trying to gain advantages from natural covers or through the flanks. Is it a bit too large??? Probably yes but i'm not sure....scattered anywhere teams? No, if you can understand that this is not a 'stamp map' and the players approaching it like a 'real' patrol team and not like ninja warriors.
I appreciate all feedbacks and in this thread most are priceless but i cannot understand your type of message ...... sorry for this...
Comments
I get the idea of no external assets , but I think it would restrict the capabilities of the editor and reduce the amount of creativity that people learn from all the things that can be done with external stuff.
I did the Alpha1 map(s). It's only my second - it probably shows. But to get better, could you please give me your take on my maps. What was good, bad and ugly about them.
I really enjoyed this contest. I am sure we all did. Making maps is hard but also fun - I normally develop software. It's another creative outlet!
I hope you might consider doing this every six months or so. There is not a good way for starting map makers to have others review their work except by somehow getting connected to a server group.
Thanks !!
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FGNL Season 1 Champions
FN Season 2 & 4 Champions
Also where the objectives are its all wood so you can just shoot through it. Not good to have your only form of cover when planting an objective shootable via wooden everything.
Most of the maps need to tone down on the hiding places. Especially areas that give sightlines of the entire map or most of the map. These are really only ok if the player is completely exposed of some what exposed. If you can only see a players head that is in one of these op sightlines it can really ruin your map as well as the overall fun of the map.
(Sm)AllTerrain (Keebler750) - This map has a good concept however 2 extractions is not good unless one team is defense. The map could work if each extraction was near each sides spawn area and the opposite extraction you spawn near is the one you would have to extract too with both teams attacking. Another possible way to test would be 2 extractions each near each spawn both teams attack and either team can extract at each one, could be some potential intense gameplay.
Cabin Fever TH (=groundhog=) - This map needs to clear up some of the OP sightlines. It is one of my favorites but some of the sightlines give you too much coverage remember how snipers already blend in really good with rocks so adding bushes/grass/trees near these sightlines make it even harder to see the sniper. Basically right now a sniper can go and have a camp snipe kill fest with an m14 on a rock. This map may be amazing with no m14 or m24 snipers.
Creeping (Gindungo_ANG) - This map need better objective coverage (you should not be able to shoot through any floor or wall and also have many windows in an objective room, also ability to see through the cracks in the wood. It's a camper paradise no point in having objectives here) and not so many hiding places. The tower is OP you can see the whole map and you get good coverage going up there. If team knows what they are doing they will take advantage of this too easily. You also have all weapons open so this really doesn't give your map a chance from the very start. Nobody wants to play maps like this with a potential 12v12 sniper fest. Yah sure it ensures everyone can have same gun. But it completely prevents anyone from really seeing how your map plays.
Ghost Rider (=[SK]=Ronniii*DK) - Really like this map. It can seem very cluttered at first but I think once players get to know the map it would be fine.
Jungle Hunt (-Flops-) - This map needs some objective coverage. There should be buildings for each objective. There is just way to many spots to hide to cover objectives. I can guaranteed you if you live the map as is and it gets picked it will soon become a map not very many want to play. If you give each objective buildings for cover I think this map can be one of the best.
Mud Boggin (-Flops-) - I like the concept and route layout of this map. My only real issue with it is lack of access to key areas due to the barb wire fence I would remove the barb wire fence that is west and the barb wire fence that is south. That will give your map the best possible play scenarios.
Patrol Trapped (RedBaron64(ITA)) - I really like this map, hope to see it make it.
Resistance (=R*C=-snom-) - This map needs objective switching up badly. As the map is currently both the west and east hills are pretty render useless and anyone going up there is not helping their team at all. This is because you have both objectives on the train so in reality all each team needs to do is rush the train bridge. If you put an objective in the east hills and west hills this will help your map greatly. Even a 3rd in the bridge could work for C4. Also you would be able to do an activate objective version with the same 3 obj layouts.
Stone Ruins (RedBaron64(ITA)) - I really like the concept of this map but IMO this map is too much for me hurts my eyes, too many areas to hide, your ruin placement does not really make sense. You give defense all the vantage points and tall buildings to go into. If defense spawned in the north east and you move the objective more to middle of map or figure out the new spawn timings with defense spawn in the north east your map would be more balanced. I also only played this one match and the other team I was against was a lot better. However they got to our spawn very quickly. Which does not make any sense considering how big the map is.
Worksite (=U^S=_Mason) - I like this map. I would really like to see a C4 gametype as well even an activate game type could work too. If you need help with objective placement on C4 or if you want to do an activate as well let me know Mason I'm more than willing to help out. I think your map could be even funner on a C4 gametype mode.
My current TOP 3 as is(assuming no changes are made to other maps)
-Worksite
-Ghostrider
-Patrol Trapped
Overall if some of these maps were tweaked just a few things I think you could easily bring on more out of the top 10 into official maps.
-Cabinfever
-Resistance
-Mud Boggin
-Stone ruins
-All Terrain
For Jungle hunt I really think this map is limited due to the unreal engine 3 and dx9. There is just way too many hiding places and hidin place engine glitches to deal with. Same thing with creeping.
The VAST majority of our players just play."
Its all good everyone plays the game differently i am just going by the server i play on and have viewed.
Game play on all these maps brings players into a greater co-operative mode with an increase in comms and less frantic "kill house" shooting. Objectives tend to be taken more seriously on the out door maps and killing down to the last man less frequent.
Well done the Map Men!!!
Its difficult to make a map with no buildings at all. You got to provide cover else where. Jungle hunt is very open. River basin from America's Army 1 fits the great outdoors theme perfectly and it has buildings. In the ends its your map to do with what you want just telling you whats hurting your map from achieving its full fun potential.
Hi Scarbone , if you have maps that are playable let me know we would be glad to try them on the Beer_Me Servers and get you some feed back from the players.
Thats fine like i said everyone plays differently , jungle hunt has quite a nice following of people who love it and if you work as a team and use your resources correctly every objective is quiet easy to achieve , Its all about teamwork
Hey ScarBone, thanks for the map submissions! We are glad you enjoyed the process and we will definitely be doing another one soon.
The main good you can pull out of your map is the objective setup. The options to choose extract or C4 plant is nice and can potentially lead to pretty varied gameplay. With the placement of those objectives though, it seems like the Flag Extract is the no-brainer choice every time. The flag is just so close to Attack spawn that they could potentially just run up the hill, do a quick snag and take it back towards their base for a quick win. That approach, even with some risk, is more likely to succeed than planting a bombing and defending it for 40 seconds.
The map itself is kind of small, with the majority of those playspace focusing within 75m of each spawn point. I would recommend using more of the map and moving the flag extract near the defense side of the map. That way attackers have to choose between moving through enemy lines or planting nearer to their spawn and holding out. By opening up the map some more, it would also give you the opportunity to flesh out your key sites better (Flag home, extract point, and plant site). You could make the mountain bigger with more routes up, provide more cover around the plant site and build out a cool extract point. This would also make the need to the underground areas less necessary, helping to focus the map in more.
Beyond that, the map could certainly be cleaned up a bit. By that I mean, the terrain needs some smoothing out a good deal in some areas and the assets you are using are not always put together cleanly. These steps will not only help the map look better, but would also help with collision issues and the like. For good examples of clean/polished maps take a look at some of the maps we picked for our Top 10 like Worksite, Jungle Hunt, and Mud Boggin (among others).
I hope you find this feedback helpful and look forward to seeing what you create moving forward!
Thanks for responding to my request with such detail!!! I thought that size map was on the large size, from what I have been reading in the forum. I wanted to make it bigger but held back. I had hope you'all would like the multi-objectives - thought it might encourage team work.
I am looking forward to the next one and will try to use your suggestions !
Thanks again!!
2.Worksite
3.Creeping
1. Bush heavy maps which create a boring gameplay.
2. Open maps with randomly placed objects everywhere and no real sense of direction...just scatter everywhere team.
Only positives I can say is the way Cabin fever uses hills for lanes with a slight combo of tree cover and buildings for obj.
Love the lighting on patrol trapped but falls right in #2 trend.
Creeping has a cool environment..however see #1
Mud bogging is cool, lacks distinct lanes
#Support Comp Mode
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN4YhM6jUB2MxVj8i3b9rhw
Sorry Doba, but in an outdoor map you cannot pretend to have 2 chokes point and only two lanes like a 'bedroom' map. 'Bush are boring' is your idea but in an outdoor map bushes could be an important factor. I made 'patrol trapped' and, as already said, is not a 'bedroom' map. The idea is to have two lines of players that, from respective spawnpoints, trying to advance and capture all 'objective sites'. The obj sites are not putted randomly everywhere but two are in positions that could be conquered with flanking maneuvres and not only frontal assault while the third, that in the middle, is disputed frontally and should work as choke point.
The sense of direction of the teams is from one spawn point against opposite spawn point, trying to gain advantages from natural covers or through the flanks. Is it a bit too large??? Probably yes but i'm not sure....scattered anywhere teams? No, if you can understand that this is not a 'stamp map' and the players approaching it like a 'real' patrol team and not like ninja warriors.
I appreciate all feedbacks and in this thread most are priceless but i cannot understand your type of message ...... sorry for this...