ambient sound removal

This came up in the Bam thread and wasn't addressed. Why do the comp guys want to remove ambient sounds such as helicopters and explosions from the maps?
It is not because they only want to hear footsteps and enemy players. It is due to the fact that the sounds are out of sync with other players experiences.
I think that the sounds are client side? Correct me if I'm wrong. So for example in your gameplay you may want to pop the spoon on a grenade when a helicopter passes to conceal the noise. Sounds like a good plan except that the helicopter sound doesn't play on your opponent's machine at the same time and he totally hears you. All the while you believe you were undetected.
This is my understanding of the problem. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Comments

  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    Nope.

    http://forum.americasarmy.com/discussion/4131/game-update-12-17-15/p1
    Audio
    * Major ambient audio events timed to occur at the same time across all clients
  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,161Player
    I don't remember maps like Urban Assault or Sandstorm being an issue in the past. Both had very loud ambient sound tracks. My personal opinion is that whatever sound track the map comes with, you deal with. Maybe someone else can shed light into that though. I do know that CS maps tend to have little to no ambient noise.

    My biggest issue with sound right now is that I have no idea how close people are in a lot of maps... but that's another discussion.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • =IK=El.Jefe=IK=El.Jefe Posts: 72Player
    I agree that loud soundtracks are not a problem and that you just deal with it. I just thought that it was out of sync between clients; that is a problem. BC says no on that issue. Waiting on guys who wanted these sounds removed/ reduced to chime in.
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    Random sounds is their problem I think but I don't understand why. Random is the best thing that could possibly happen to the game after all.
  • Twitchr.Carbon8Twitchr.Carbon8 Posts: 337Player
    SSKnecabo wrote: »
    Random sounds is their problem I think but I don't understand why. Random is the best thing that could possibly happen to the game after all.

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  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    edited February 2016
    I went to write a big post which started like..

    Imagine if the Terminator movie didn't have that "dum, dum, dum.... dum, dum" sound whenever Arnie was about to come into shot?

    But then I start to think I dare not mention sound effects on immersion and what part they may play on player retention and game enjoyment. I know why certain people don't want such distractions, like choppers, wind blowing, gunfire in the distance etc.. but imo lack of such ambiance in the play space would just detract from the experience. That to me wouldn't make a game better, it would just make it seem more cheap and nasty.
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  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited February 2016
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    I don't remember maps like Urban Assault or Sandstorm being an issue in the past. Both had very loud ambient sound tracks. My personal opinion is that whatever sound track the map comes with, you deal with. Maybe someone else can shed light into that though. I do know that CS maps tend to have little to no ambient noise.

    My biggest issue with sound right now is that I have no idea how close people are in a lot of maps... but that's another discussion.

    Ambient sound did NOT overpower footstep noise and other noise's like they do in this game. Probably has to do with direct3d sound being supported on AA2 through windows xp(mostly just an excuse, because other games do it fine.) and game allowing sound cards to take full advantage of 128 channels.

    We want ambient at full 100%. We want useless noises in the background like helicopters flying over, random guns shooting in background, etc all removed. That way sound will be the same throughout the round. I say one thing I would hate to play this game with out my sound card doing CMSS3D surround for me and as well as smart volume management. Just SVM alone makes a huge difference.

    Overall sound simply doesn't make sense. Its inconsistent. You can hear someone so far even when lots of different sounds are going on around you in a 12v12 but the minute someone is close you have a 50/50 chance of hearing them, and if you do its a few footsteps or something random and inconsistent. I remember AA2 sound, I also remember other games sound you hear every footstep around you that close really well. in this game its almost like every 2nd step makes noise and not every step. (Whether your sprinting or walking, etc.)

    Lets not forget the ability to hear someone above you perfectly, so well that you think its on the same level as you(The only way to tell the difference is if one level has a different footstep sound than the other but on checkout both seafood and clothing have same surface sounds and it is impossible to tell if its same level as you or above. You eventually get used to it somewhat realizing if you hear them really well they are most likely above you. Oh and lets not forget hearing guys better at a distance than upclose. Then when you get in a 4v4 or 5v5 scrim environment you hear guys a lot better, I would say the footstep distance is too much but then in 12v12 it is needed. Doesn't make any sense right? That's because this sound engine makes no sense. But I am dealing with it. The old sound engine I could tell above/below better. But could not hear as much as I do now. I am sure making this game have good sound on an old engine that uses 1 CPU Core is the main issue here, its probably impossible. I hope in future an AA will be on UE4 and than more than 10% of a cpu core could be dedicated to sound.
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  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,161Player
    I always hear sounds like everyone is right next to me. In maps where a room has multiple entry points and elevations, you're screwed. You have no idea where someone is. Then you realize they weren't even close to you. You start moving and then they pop out of nowhere. It's crazy.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • K!Dz.applePIEK!Dz.applePIE Posts: 1,050Player
    edited February 2016
    I think the ambient sounds are not the problem.. but someone said that those sounds are not for all players at the same time. Which means you can hear jets roaring but the other guy might be not hearing the same thing. I never tested this so cant really say for sure its true.

    If all can hear the exact same ambient sound, I think there is nothing wrong with them.

    EDIT: I am just talking about ambient sounds.. and not inconsistent footstep sounds. Also I do not see a problem with some ambient sounds covering footsteps. This was the same in AA2 with gunfire and explosions
  • Bam4DBam4D Posts: 976Player
    This came up in the Bam thread and wasn't addressed. Why do the comp guys want to remove ambient sounds such as helicopters and explosions from the maps?
    It is not because they only want to hear footsteps and enemy players. It is due to the fact that the sounds are out of sync with other players experiences.
    I think that the sounds are client side? Correct me if I'm wrong. So for example in your gameplay you may want to pop the spoon on a grenade when a helicopter passes to conceal the noise. Sounds like a good plan except that the helicopter sound doesn't play on your opponent's machine at the same time and he totally hears you. All the while you believe you were undetected.
    This is my understanding of the problem. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Really? that would explain some of my deaths... I rush in on ambient sounds. Can i get a refund on those deaths? ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

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  • Bam4DBam4D Posts: 976Player
    SVM is kinda unfair.. why would want the littlest thing louder and the loudest thing littler?

    Turn that off no wonder you complain about sound... Yeh of course you hear footsteps far off and the steps closest to you are soft.

    I think the sound is wonderful.. I use DTS stream with Media Mode not game mode 'fatality1 card', this game has some great sounds. Soundy has always nailed it in all versions. :+1:

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  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,621Beta Tester
    I've been experimenting with sound occlusion etc in my test maps. Things that happen on the floor above CAN be made to sound different. Unfortunately, a lot of people panned that feature of the new sound engine before it got fully dialed in.
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  • Bam4DBam4D Posts: 976Player
    AA has never let me down... well except the unfinished feel of 3 what a waste of a great game design.

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  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    Stop with this ambient client side mess it is not true.
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited February 2016
    Bam4D wrote: »
    SVM is kinda unfair.. why would want the littlest thing louder and the loudest thing littler?

    Turn that off no wonder you complain about sound... Yeh of course you hear footsteps far off and the steps closest to you are soft.

    I think the sound is wonderful.. I use DTS stream with Media Mode not game mode 'fatality1 card', this game has some great sounds. Soundy has always nailed it in all versions. :+1:

    Bam4D its too bad you can't hear anything ingame. BTW I have one of the best sound setups in the game and I hear just fine in 4v4 scrim environment, so nothing is wrong with my setup. I also tried playing with no CMSS3D and I also tried playing with NO SVM. Using no SVM led to same exact sound issues, just couldn't hear quieter things as far away and guns were way louder. With it on or off footsteps upclose sound and are the same. BTW your sound card is outdated and awful.
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • Dct.F|LeventeDct.F|Levente Posts: 624Beta Tester
    As far as I know all important ambient sounds are server side. So not the wind, but the jets, horn on harbor, helicopters etc...
    Theory and reality are not that different. In theory.
  • =IK=SgtBadazz=IK=SgtBadazz Posts: 160Player
    Tried svm, didn't like it. Could hear better without.
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited February 2016
    Tried svm, didn't like it. Could hear better without.

    Yah it depends on your headphones. Another factor is if your used to playing without it. It's going to be hard to get used to playing with it. I've used it since AA2, so I'm really used to it. For me and my setup with it off I don't hear little things at a distance say I am on springstreet I will hear a guy get all the way to hotel while I am sitting at end of bistro fence closest to ambulance, but it will stop as soon as he enters hotel or it will be very very quiet in hotel area. With SVM on I hear the guy in hotel no problem until he starts getting too far up the stairs. From 4 boards in on upper bank platform outside of bank. I can hear a guy tactical crouch all the way to the 2nd puddle by hotel a little passed hotel doorway. With svm off I only hear till about the first puddle or just before the puddle I stop hearing but will hear the puddle fine.. I do test with 1 person in a private server nothing going on around to see what I can hear and I test out different options in my sound card and eq adjustments, see which one is better.. If I am infront of bristo by doorway by red hall side I can hear a gun sprinting until he gets passed the plywood/flag area, if he runs around on the plywood I hear him anything further I don't. With SVM off I don't hear anything past the container. It's such a small difference but can change what you hear drastically if you don't do these tests you won't even know. Maybe you should do these tests sgtbadazz and you will see which options are better for you.
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  • K!Dz.applePIEK!Dz.applePIE Posts: 1,050Player
    .dc-colts^ wrote: »
    Yah it depends on your headphones. Another factor is if your used to playing without it. It's going to be hard to get used to playing with it. I've used it since AA2, so I'm really used to it. For me and my setup with it off I don't hear little things at a distance say I am on springstreet I will hear a guy get all the way to hotel while I am sitting at end of bistro fence closest to ambulance, but it will stop as soon as he enters hotel or it will be very very quiet in hotel area. With SVM on I hear the guy in hotel no problem until he starts getting too far up the stairs. From 4 boards in on upper bank platform outside of bank. I can hear a guy tactical crouch all the way to the 2nd puddle by hotel a little passed hotel doorway. With svm off I only hear till about the first puddle or just before the puddle I stop hearing but will hear the puddle fine.. I do test with 1 person in a private server nothing going on around to see what I can hear and I test out different options in my sound card and eq adjustments, see which one is better.. If I am infront of bristo by doorway by red hall side I can hear a gun sprinting until he gets passed the plywood/flag area, if he runs around on the plywood I hear him anything further I don't. With SVM off I don't hear anything past the container. It's such a small difference but can change what you hear drastically if you don't do these tests you won't even know. Maybe you should do these tests sgtbadazz and you will see which options are better for you.


    This is in my opinion something no one should be able to hear. Before asking ambient sounds to get removed, we should ask to make sure no one can tune their sound system this far, that we can hear sound across the map.

    Also why is it a big problem to loose hearing capacity at some ambient sounds? Being able to use environment sounds to your advantage in assault and being visually and tactically more aware (since you can no longer hear every single movement) in defense gives depth to the game. It does not take it away.
    This assuming there is no client side random sounds but only server side sounds synced across all clients at the same time
  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    I didn't change anything and hear sounds across the map. It's so confusing sometimes and I'll just start running from that nade that was pulled on the opposite side of the map.
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