Competative Feedback for Dev's [Comp Mode]

Twitchr.Carbon8Twitchr.Carbon8 Posts: 337Player
edited January 2016 in eSports
Hey Guys, Old comp player here.

I would like to create a hitlist of items that the comp scene wants. My plan is to create a spreadsheet with priorities, and list them top to bottom. The dev's seem more interested than ever about taking making a competative Americas Army mode. I also want to confirm with a lot of comp teams, so I plan to be teamspeak hopping tonight and tomorrow.

So, for feedback from you guys, I would like a list of items that you would like changed/modified. I will populate a spreadsheet with these, along with the priority numbers and give it to the Devs. I'm not looking for round time, no revive, and general server settings that we already have.

Also- Priority numbers. We need to mutually agree on what are the most important, as they most likely all will not get completed. So for this, Please assign your top 10 with numbers like below, only using each number once.

Disable Supported until animation fixed- 8
Disable Sliding- 9
Disable Aim Punch- 6
Disable Suppression-
Disable ambient noise feature- 3
Demorecs- 10
Enable/Disable gunsand or sights- 8
Disable Accuracy Cone- 5
Lean timeouts - 1
Round Score Control- 4
etc-7
etc-2



As said before, i will do the manual labor and tally them all up for the devs, and give them the spreadsheet. i would like feedback from each comp player, or at least each team. I know you guys may think that all of these are required(and I'm in belief with you), but we most likely wont get everything we want(complications, or time). This is our chance to get the features disabled, and game "fixed" that we want guys!

I may edit this main post a few times after i get more feedback.

NOTE: If you have no desire for a competitive scene, and think the game is perfect, please do not post. I understand that those are your beliefs, but the comp scene would like to be heard.

Feel free to add me on steam and we can chat. I would like to get a consensus from every team so no one complains if we get everything that we ask for.
steamcommunity.com/id/Fatal1ity
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Comments

  • SSKnecaboSSKnecabo Posts: 2,721Player
    For priority numbers we'd first need to have a list of things to consider. Also it should be possible to "skip" things in case we don't want those changed. I think for example that just either aim punch or suppression needs to be removed, not necessarily both.

    Also think a UI for setting round scores, restarting rounds, pausing etc. is mandatory for a comp mode.
  • Twitchr.Carbon8Twitchr.Carbon8 Posts: 337Player
    Thanks. the more ideas you guys have, the more I will add to the original post. I agree with you
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,621Beta Tester
    edited January 2016
    Work together, gain consensus, and prioritize. From what I can see the Devs have ALWAYS been interested, but consensus never happened. Good luck, folks! :+1:

    Since before I became a Beta, I have always pushed for ONE game with robust configurable options for servers. Back then I warned that "Us versus Them" was a bad road to go down. I still stand by that, but wish you all well. Just like UMMs, some configuration that suits all of you can only be good for the game.

    Cheers!
    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • Twitchr.Carbon8Twitchr.Carbon8 Posts: 337Player
    keebler, you are correct. I will re-phrase as I did not mean it to be read like that.
    Thanks
  • TheTotsTheTots Posts: 2,279Player
    If you can't make a constructive, on topic post it will be removed.

    This is how every other attempt at this has been destroyed, I won't allow it to happen again.
    The game wasn't made exactly to my specifications, so I feel it's broken.

  • =IK=El.Jefe=IK=El.Jefe Posts: 72Player
    Without mentioning any specifics, instead of a "comp mode" or even in addition to, any and all of these changes should be server side options. This way different leagues and teams can cherry pick and customize their experience. This way everyone does not have to come to a complete consensus. Official "comp mode" servers could be cool for casuals to come and get a feel for the scene without making a commitment.
  • [Prt_Dictator][Prt_Dictator] Posts: 275Player
    This is from the perspective of a player that is not in the comp scene (would be if I enjoyed playing the game seriously) and wants to reconsider that decision. So here's some general changes I would like to see:

    - Less effective Spray&Pray, more rewards for accurately placing shots: Aimpunch; Suppression; Jumpy ADS recoil; Accuracy Cone; Removing or tweaking some or all of those, it needs a better balance.

    - Less braindead maneuvers, more reward for fundamentals: Reload while sprinting; Jumping, sprinting vaulting & sliding and shooting right after; Lean spam; Supported position; 3D spotting; Hold breath; Same thing, removal or tweaks.

    - Would also welcome a slight increase in walk speed to make the movement more dynamic and less reliant on sprint. Would balance eventual changes to the movement in the point above.

    Those 2 first points are my biggest concerns regarding the overall gameplay, and its what should be improved to make the game more competitive imo. Even though I could present my personal list of changes, I'm not too picky and I don't particularly care about the exact changes, as long as the balance is found.

    Plus, as necabo said, its absolutely essential for competition to have a way for admins/players to control the match.
  • iNv|eKCommiNv|eKComm Posts: 394Player
    Fact is we've been down this road and it hasn't been consensus that has prevented us from getting things done.

    Twitchr, we are currently working on map edits to address some of these problems. The comp community is working directly with a very skilled Unreal Editor guru. We've collected a group of players from the teams in competition and despite what you're hearing we do indeed have consensus on what we want. Its been a great process so far. If you want to get involved message me on steam.
    2016 Flank Gaming Network Season 1 Champion
    2016 FraggedNation Season 4 Champion
    2015 FraggedNation Season 2 Main Champion
    2015 ESL Test Cup Second place
    2014 FraggedNation UMM Tournament Champion
    2014 FraggedNation Old School map Tournament Champion
    2014 TWL Season 1 Second Place
    2013 TWL 7v7 Beta Tournament Champion
    2013 TWL 5v5 Beta Tournament Second Place
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited January 2016
    My list as posted on a different forum:

    So I am creating my list not knowing if this is for Competition matches in a league/ladder based organization or if it is just for a Competition Mode for Official Servers that you could also set your private servers too. So I will create my list with both in mind. (Because if it is just for Official Servers running Comp mode than demorec is not really apart of this but still needs addressing)

    #1. Disable Supported (Very important)
    #2. Disable Sliding (Very important)
    #3. (Very important) Disable Nade suppression as well as gun suppression (Nade suppression is most important)
    #4. Ambient noise (Very important:Get rid of helicopter's/airplanes in background as well as random gun fire background noise, Leave wind/nature noises at 100%. This is the route to go IMO. (If your going to disable ambient noise completely. You are going to have to tweak the sound way too much *Footstep distance would need to be lowered, tactical volume would need to be lowered, prone volume would need to be lowered, etc..) So rather than waste time with all that remove the unnecessary stuff in the ambient like gunfire, airplanes, helicopters, etc *Those are things that when they are going on you cant hear footsteps at all.) *Also when shooting your gun you can't hear footsteps I understand this concept but I don't like it for competitive play.
    #5. Ability to disable certain guns/sights. Example no m14 allowed, no m16 acog (For the m16 acog if it wasn't for the ability to use single fire on m16 acog it would not be OP and would be ok/allowed IMO *For burst fire only on m16 acog)
    EDIT: An idea I just came up with is removing ability to use single fire on all weapons. (M4 and M16)
    #6. Completely remove accuracy cone at distances of 5m or less. (Lower the cone on distance further than 5m, or just lower the cone overall and keep the cone the same size at all distances. Also if possible make the cone/recoil so its not so random. Where a missed shot sometimes equal a hit or a shot right on target equals a hit. My biggest issue is because it is random you can hipfire on guys head(@close ranger) and get a kill and than other times hipfire on guys head and not get a kill this is fine at greater distances but in up close firefights this not good!
    #7. Remove aimpunch or make aimpunch the same every time (To eliminate occurrence of your aim sometimes going to the ground(OP IMO) also add aimpunch for when you get flashed. This way a player who gets flashed cannot just go off sound and start shooting they would have to guess where to aim in order to get a flash kill successfully instead of currently just start shooting and your aim will be where it was when you were flashed.)
    #8. Update demorec so it is an instant replay feature like madden nfl, nba 2k series, etc. (Pause, slow motion, fast forward as well as ability to back in slow motion or fast. Also make it so you see exactly what gun the person you are spectating is using, Not depending on which team is which you see an m4 for AK105 or an m4 for AK105.
    #9. Remove sprinting and reloading, as well as automatic reloading. (If you get to 0 bullets the game should not automatically start reloading for you) Sprinting should cancel your reload)
    #10. Ability to switch sides every round for OT (Overtime) win by 2. Ability to pause a match and put it in a warmup state to stop the server from keeping score, So you don't have to restart the server and keep score if someone loses connection and a team needs a dead round.

    EXTRAS:
    *Remove red dot showing up in minimap/radar when enemy shoots their gun.
    *Clean up training maps so there is not so many spammable windows/walls example: Breach.
    *Clean up maps like lockdown so there is not so many open windows. Makes the map really easy as well as spam nades very easy. Any map with to many windows is a bad idea. If lockdown had some solid buildings with fewer windows and no nades for example the map would be much better. Or if certain buildings were made taller and had much fewer windows to only allow nades in certain spots and not anywhere on the map than the map would be much better. (There is a lot of maps currently that don't play well that can be fixed to play well...look @ CrossFireComp for example. (CrossFireComp has made crossfire so much more balanced and fun to play.) Also I have ideas for C4 versions of maps example: Breach_C4 I am working with wolverine on this one now and will see what people think when I am done. If it is successful I can continue converting other official maps to support a C4 mode as well as an extract version.
    *Remove bushes where a character can be invisible in areas of some maps. Put grass instead

    SIDENOTES:
    *Ability to pick any weapon in warmup mode.
    *Respawn delay of 3-5 seconds in warmup mode
    *Remove ability to have unlimited nades and flashes.
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • iDK.ArkeiroiDK.Arkeiro Posts: 775Player
    In my opinion, the first step to go forward for competition should be given an admin interface where he/she could edit the server properly for a match, ex.: What type of guns for that map // tactical pauses // necessary pauses because of a disconnection // display all pings // swap full teams // swap or switch players // etc... Basically more facility and simplicity to administrate a server.

    Secondary - fix the current bugs, such as nading and running, supported position animation, our sound footsteps being delayed.

    In last, but not less important: The noise in bdx maps (specially) coming from helicopters, and airplanes are a bit too often, remove for complete or less frequency and lower its sound. Also the slide and jump should have some punishment. Slide good for getting in a defensive position, and jumping should just be an alternative option to get map knlowledge, instead of abusing it for firefights (not realistic and not good for game).

    Sugestions, everyone and each one of us players have alot, but for now I think this is the most important. Also, I apreciate DEVS for coming here and listen to us, good luck and thank you.

    Over 2k Golden Hawkeyes.
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited January 2016
    Fact is we've been down this road and it hasn't been consensus that has prevented us from getting things done.

    I wonder if all those comp beta forum posts still exist :neutral:
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • =IK=SgtBadazz=IK=SgtBadazz Posts: 160Player
    I don't think you'll be going anywhere too fast without demorec working and some form of anti-cheat.
  • K!Dz.applePIEK!Dz.applePIE Posts: 1,050Player
    edited January 2016
    I also agree with a proper admin interface as arkerio and some others suggested.
    Also an Ui for demorec play. Colts suggestion of seeing the player always as US soldier makes sense as in current state you can't really judge the weapon attributes from demorec watching bravo team. This should be of course only done for Pov.

    Clear the bugs not related to engine in demorec play as well. There are still audio sync issues in demorecs (some clients hear 3 bullets fired when a single bullet is animated etc), the firerate animation is also buggy for some parts. Demorec crashes game if you rewind or when you exit it.

    Remove random sounds if they can not be heard by all players simultaneously. If they can be heard simultaneously by all clients still reduce the volume.

    Fix the current bugs as arkerio suggested for running nade, supported animation and sounds.

    Nerf this futures: sliding, bunny shooting, peak spamming, supported movements.

    Lastly if you are really going to implement the suggestions make a survey among EU comp players as well.
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    Bam4D wrote: »
    Just looking around :flushed: you guys need my input? I've got a soapbox and a ladder. Let me know.

    Hey Bam, probably best to let the Comp focused players have their say. This post, as indicated elsewhere, is exactly what the DEV's are looking for. Not for us "pub" players to get involved in, if we don't have a dog in this hunt.

    Good luck guys. Some of the stuff you are asking for i would like to see as well.

    rubberboot is there anything like [Prt_Dictator] that if were changed would make you interested in playing the game competitively. With enough teams comes separate divisions. ATM this is not possible so teams of all sorts are playing you have teams there for casual play, you have your average team looking to practice when they can and take it somewhat serious, then you have your practice everyday serious teams. The ideal thing to do is have these 3 divisions so there is a place for every team in the game to play.

    So to you rubber and any other team or player that is not currently in competition what would make you want to take part in comp or play/try this Competitive Mode?
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • Twitchr.Carbon8Twitchr.Carbon8 Posts: 337Player
    .dc-colts^ wrote: »
    My list as posted on a different forum:

    So I am creating my list not knowing if this is for Competition matches in a league/ladder based organization or if it is just for a Competition Mode for Official Servers that you could also set your private servers too. So I will create my list with both in mind. (Because if it is just for Official Servers running Comp mode than demorec is not really apart of this but still needs addressing)

    #1. Disable Supported (Very important)
    #2. Disable Sliding (Very important)
    #3. (Very important) Disable Nade suppression as well as gun suppression (Nade suppression is most important)
    #4. Ambient noise (Very important:Get rid of helicopter's/airplanes in background as well as random gun fire background noise, Leave wind/nature noises at 100%. This is the route to go IMO. (If your going to disable ambient noise completely. You are going to have to tweak the sound way too much *Footstep distance would need to be lowered, tactical volume would need to be lowered, prone volume would need to be lowered, etc..) So rather than waste time with all that remove the unnecessary stuff in the ambient like gunfire, airplanes, helicopters, etc *Those are things that when they are going on you cant hear footsteps at all.) *Also when shooting your gun you can't hear footsteps I understand this concept but I don't like it for competitive play.
    #5. Ability to disable certain guns/sights. Example no m14 allowed, no m16 acog (For the m16 acog if it wasn't for the ability to use single fire on m16 acog it would not be OP and would be ok/allowed IMO *For burst fire only on m16 acog)
    EDIT: An idea I just came up with is removing ability to use single fire on all weapons. (M4 and M16)
    #6. Completely remove accuracy cone at distances of 5m or less. (Lower the cone on distance further than 5m, or just lower the cone overall and keep the cone the same size at all distances. Also if possible make the cone/recoil so its not so random. Where a missed shot sometimes equal a hit or a shot right on target equals a hit. My biggest issue is because it is random you can hipfire on guys head(@close ranger) and get a kill and than other times hipfire on guys head and not get a kill this is fine at greater distances but in up close firefights this not good!
    #7. Remove aimpunch or make aimpunch the same every time (To eliminate occurrence of your aim sometimes going to the ground(OP IMO) also add aimpunch for when you get flashed. This way a player who gets flashed cannot just go off sound and start shooting they would have to guess where to aim in order to get a flash kill successfully instead of currently just start shooting and your aim will be where it was when you were flashed.)
    #8. Update demorec so it is an instant replay feature like madden nfl, nba 2k series, etc. (Pause, slow motion, fast forward as well as ability to back in slow motion or fast. Also make it so you see exactly what gun the person you are spectating is using, Not depending on which team is which you see an m4 for AK105 or an m4 for AK105.
    #9. Remove sprinting and reloading, as well as automatic reloading. (If you get to 0 bullets the game should not automatically start reloading for you) Sprinting should cancel your reload)
    #10. Ability to switch sides every round for OT (Overtime) win by 2. Ability to pause a match and put it in a warmup state to stop the server from keeping score, So you don't have to restart the server and keep score if someone loses connection and a team needs a dead round.

    EXTRAS:
    *Remove red dot showing up in minimap/radar when enemy shoots their gun.
    *Clean up training maps so there is not so many spammable windows/walls example: Breach.
    *Clean up maps like lockdown so there is not so many open windows. Makes the map really easy as well as spam nades very easy. Any map with to many windows is a bad idea. If lockdown had some solid buildings with fewer windows and no nades for example the map would be much better. Or if certain buildings were made taller and had much fewer windows to only allow nades in certain spots and not anywhere on the map than the map would be much better. (There is a lot of maps currently that don't play well that can be fixed to play well...look @ CrossFireComp for example. (CrossFireComp has made crossfire so much more balanced and fun to play.) Also I have ideas for C4 versions of maps example: Breach_C4 I am working with wolverine on this one now and will see what people think when I am done. If it is successful I can continue converting other official maps to support a C4 mode as well as an extract version.
    *Remove bushes where a character can be invisible in areas of some maps. Put grass instead

    SIDENOTES:
    *Ability to pick any weapon in warmup mode.
    *Respawn delay of 3-5 seconds in warmup mode
    *Remove ability to have unlimited nades and flashes.

    Thanks Colts, I will add these to my spreadsheet. Any other comp players?
  • -=[USA]=-rubberboot-ACI--=[USA]=-rubberboot-ACI- Posts: 126Beta Tester
    .dc-colts^ wrote: »
    Bam4D wrote: »
    Just looking around :flushed: you guys need my input? I've got a soapbox and a ladder. Let me know.

    Hey Bam, probably best to let the Comp focused players have their say. This post, as indicated elsewhere, is exactly what the DEV's are looking for. Not for us "pub" players to get involved in, if we don't have a dog in this hunt.

    Good luck guys. Some of the stuff you are asking for i would like to see as well.

    rubberboot is there anything like [Prt_Dictator] that if were changed would make you interested in playing the game competitively. With enough teams comes separate divisions. ATM this is not possible so teams of all sorts are playing you have teams there for casual play, you have your average team looking to practice when they can and take it somewhat serious, then you have your practice everyday serious teams. The ideal thing to do is have these 3 divisions so there is a place for every team in the game to play.

    So to you rubber and any other team or player that is not currently in competition what would make you want to take part in comp or play/try this Competitive Mode?

    Hey Colts, thanks for asking - not expected, but appreciated.

    I have a different set of issues with the game itself, that would ultimately get me too frustrated to even think about playing competatively. it is the inconsistancy i am facing from random recoil to in-game mouse settings changing randomly (i have never changed the DPI from 2500Hx1500V after the DPI discussion) to the point it is unplayable sometimes. I didn't face these issues with the Open Beta version of the game. Release version for me has been a less than desired experience. I know i am getting old and slow, yet gameplay for me is just been horrendously inconsistant... when this gets better i would concider scrimming (at least) although i think i would still be handycapping any team i am apart of.

    with that said what would make me concider playing competatively -
    1. Moving enemy spot must go. Hate the feature from all the way back in Alpha. Would rather the feature be more like AA3 radar only, but i can accept one that doesn't follow me
    2. auto callouts (ie "grenade") has to go.
    3. no M24's, M14's. they cheapen the experience with the STK imbalance vs M4, M16, M249. i could see the shotty being available (although cant see it being used oftem). With these limited weapons, it is now based off of skill - the better shot will win 95% of the time. this is something i don't understand with CSGO - how can you figure out who is best if you can purchase items that alter the next round? wouldn't it be better and fair if all had same weapon?
    4. most of dictator's stuff would have me interested to see how it played out, just not sure about increased walking speed. i am fine with that one.
    5. takedowns would have to stay - this is one of the few things i really enjoy in the game (even the ones from the cheap corners ;) )

    as for the other stuff, i defer to your competative minds... most of that stuff doesn't mean much to me as i am a casual gamer.
  • Twitchr.Carbon8Twitchr.Carbon8 Posts: 337Player
    edited January 2016
    Thanks Rubberboot. Another wishlist item that I remeber, was dropping weapons/grenades to teammates. This was used to help new guys practice nades, and even tactics to keep enemys out of certain locations.

    I specifically remember lots of teamwork happeening, where 1 person would get all the grenades on weapons cache, and stay on the top floor with one pulled. Then, the person who was watching on 2nd story would tell the grenade thrower that he heard an enemy at the stairs, and boom, grenade from teammate.

    I may just be dreaming here, but that was a feature that I would like.

    Doors are also a big feature that I miss. not to pimp my own video too much, but this was so much fun.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    edited January 2016
    Tons of suggestions being made here, some of the standard ones we have been talking about would include:

    Disable Supported
    Disable Sliding
    Disable AimPunch
    Reduce gun and nade Suppression
    Disable loud ambient noises, ie. planes and back gun fire
    Ability to Enable/Disable guns/sights
    Removal of 3D everything
    Removal of Enemy Spotted and enemy position on minimap
    Possibly remove running while sprinting
    No Auto Reloads when at 0 bullets

    These are the standard ones that seem to repeat between the comp community that I would think could get changed to represent a comp mode.

    however I also see many suggestions that totally change the game like:

    - faster walking speed
    - tweaking cone
    - less random ADS recoil
    - lean spam, meaning delay on leaning

    Not that I dont agree with these changes, but I see these more as an overall game tweak, not just comp mode, I think that would be going a little too far in changing the feel of the game between the two modes.

    imo comp mode needs to play similarly to what we currently have, just as we always stated without the help me features.

    Thats just what I think and can envision happening here.

    Now Ive talked to many comp players privately, we do have a discussion elsewhere and everyone who chooses to participate seems to be on the same page.. maybe with the exception of 1 or two.. many chose not to participate as they feel its for nothing.. not that they wouldnt welcome change.
    _____________________________
    #Support Comp Mode

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN4YhM6jUB2MxVj8i3b9rhw
  • =U^S=_Mason=U^S=_Mason Posts: 172Player
    Possibly remove running while sprinting
    ... that's gonna be a tough one.
  • -hyperlite--hyperlite- Posts: 104Player
    Doba this ones for you bud!!

    +1
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