Great Outdoors Map Creation Contest

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  • TheTotsTheTots Posts: 2,279Player
    edited November 2015
    1. the last thing i want is the devs to focus on nominating a bush heavy map because they think that is what we would consider outdoorsy...

    border was one of the best outdoor (pub) maps, so i hope the devs don't get too stuck on the idea that a map can't qualify if it has a bunch of buildings. border had a lot of terrain and also it was objective based, not team deathmatch. there was a goal and it was achievable. buildings have a place in outdoor maps. you can't just expect the defending team to sit on the back side of a hill and rely on great sniping and hope they don't get flanked...

    2. also, what's the status on the game features? this contest isn't going to end for months... is that enough time that we can expect the devs to insert a fire team feature, a way to allow map makers and maps/missions in general to feel different from each other, instead of all being the same broken situation where we see everyone carrying fogs, almost 1/2 of each team carrying zoom optics, etc... it is a sure fast way to get sick of a game.

    i don't really understand how you can hold a contest for outdoor maps when you have removed smoke from the game. it is just insane logic.

    bring fire team to aapg and bring back smoke in limited fashion, and let the map maker decide what weapons/scopes can be used on his/her map.... THEN do a contest for "outdoor map" once you have given map makers tools for such a thing. preferably more than 1 map per several months...

    one size fits all weapon selection is lame. 10 scopes per server on every 12v12 is lame.

    one size fits all round timers is lame. fix this designation to be customized per map, not per bdx/flo label.

    all of this has been requested years ago now.. still no word from any dev on these features. sorry but that's not how you win over a community's loyalty and interest in your work.

    Ok, here's some dev words.

    1) Don't worry, we understand what we mean by outside. "Bush Heavy" isn't it :)

    2) There shouldn't be any features coming in the contest time that would effect the map makers.

    No plan to add fire teams. Tried it about a year or so ago and it wasn't playing well. Could it happen in the future? Maybe. Don't wait on it though.

    We can look at adding smokes to the UMM loadouts

    Map makers can set what roles they want and their quantities. It's up to them to decide how many scopes they want on their maps.

    Map makers can set the time they want on their maps.

    So, 3 out of 4 ain't bad.
    The game wasn't made exactly to my specifications, so I feel it's broken.

  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,080Player
    FunPolice wrote: »
    No plan to add fire teams. Tried it about a year or so ago and it wasn't playing well. Could it happen in the future? Maybe. Don't wait on it though.
    Even if no fire teams, something as simple as:
    <=4 players then 4 rifle, 1 AR
    <=8 players then 8 rifle, 2 AR, 1 DM
    12 players then 12 rifle, 2 AR, 2 DM, 1 Sniper

    This allows mappers to limit the classes when the servers are not full.
    FunPolice wrote: »
    Map makers can set what roles they want and their quantities. It's up to them to decide how many scopes they want on their maps.
    Two problems.
    1. The AR can't be separated from the scope. If you have the AR class, then you have to have the scope.
    2 (maybe 1a). Mappers cannot set which attachments are available. Let us choose if we want an iron sight or M68 only map.

    Just those couple features would allow mappers so much more freedom.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • TheTotsTheTots Posts: 2,279Player
    I'm not sure if this is possible with the way the game is made at a base level.
    I know we've looked into these type things in the past, and they were very major changes.

    I'll check back into it this week and see.
    The game wasn't made exactly to my specifications, so I feel it's broken.

  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,080Player
    edited November 2015
    Here's how I imagine it more or less:
    3NmHAyF.jpg

    There would be a new UI item similar to the objective editor. All of the square boxes are supposed to be drop down menus, unfortunately doing this in excel, it doesn't show the drop down box unless you click the cell.

    If something is grayed out it means that the person can't edit it. This would occur in the following instances:
    1. Only one weapon available in the class (i.e. the AR class)
    2. If the weapon is Disabled (editing the other items would have no use)
    3. If there is only 1 default attachment (at least one default attachment is needed for every weapon since people may not have the unlocks available)
    4. Grenades are Standard

    Disabled Items
    In game disabled items would just show up as grayed out with the word "unavailable in current map" displayed. The player would not be able to select this weapon or attachment. If they do, the game automatically defaults them to a random weapon/attachment that is available. Either that, or just make it not show up in game like normal unlocks. Depends on how you want to do it. I figure people would get confused as to why their favorite weapon isn't available in the current map.

    Standard vs. Forced Grenades
    Standard Grenades = How the game currently is.
    Forced Grenades = The game forces you to have however many grenades as the mapper decides. The player's grenade selection in the in-game UI is grayed out.


    On the right side is the definition of how many roles are available by player count. This would also effectively get rid of the need for FLO vs. BDX. The mapper decides how many weapon slots are available based on how many players are on each team. The number must be equal to or greater than the total number of players.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • -=}WoLvErInE{=--=}WoLvErInE{=- Posts: 1,116Beta Tester
    That's perfect Whip! Life would be sooooo much better having something like that in place. Well, at least it would be much easier to make a decent layout having that feature.
  • ddra-ddra- Posts: 453Player
    FunPolice wrote: »
    [...]No plan to add fire teams. Tried it about a year or so ago and it wasn't playing well. Could it happen in the future? Maybe. Don't wait on it though.

    Disappointing to hear. When do the devs plan to introduce new BDX maps?
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  • G5CubeG5Cube Posts: 7Player
    edited November 2015
    A bit of a vague question, and I expect a bit of a vague answer, but "how big" of maps are we talking about? Coldfront is fairly large. Is that about the target size, or can these be, say, double that? The larger the map, the slower the pace of gameplay, and the longer the rounds take, so there's certainly a conscious tradeoff here.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,532Beta Tester
    Heh. The poor design for my 600m outdoor map had people extracting a flag in 1:20min, even though I envisioned this huge battle...so size does not necessarily equal slow. Note, I did say poorly designed, however...
    ______

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  • [Dev]Rawrster[Dev]Rawrster Posts: 328Developer
    G5Cube wrote: »
    A bit of a vague question, and I expect a bit of a vague answer, but "how big" of maps are we talking about? Coldfront is fairly large. Is that about the target size, or can these be, say, double that? The larger the map, the slower the pace of gameplay, and the longer the rounds take, so there's certainly a conscious tradeoff here.

    No strict requirements for size. Just make sure there is enough room for players to move around in. Cold Front is plenty large for 12v12, but if your goal is to make a 6v6 map then maybe something the size of Watchdog is more appropriate. Larger is fine too, just ensure the size works well within our default time limits (4 minutes for FLO, 3 minutes for BDX)
  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,080Player
    Larger is fine too, just ensure the size works well within our default time limits (4 minutes for FLO, 3 minutes for BDX)
    That's big. I'm glad for this.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • G5CubeG5Cube Posts: 7Player
    edited November 2015
    Second question: Can we use pre-existing third-party (free or commercially available) royalty-free assets, or does the "Originality" clause mean I need to create (or have created explicitly for me for this purpose) every asset I use (if it's not already included in AAPG itself)?
  • [Dev]Rawrster[Dev]Rawrster Posts: 328Developer
    G5Cube wrote: »
    Second question: Can we use pre-existing third-party (free or commercially available) royalty-free assets, or does the "Originality" clause mean I need to create (or have created explicitly for me for this purpose) every asset I use (if it's not already included in AAPG itself)?

    The Originality clause is more for the map layout. If you find some royalty free stuff or can work out a deal with another content creator, then feel free to make use of all that good stuff.
  • CrushmasterCrushmaster Posts: 496Player
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=494214314

    I hope this is submitted.. was the funnest outdoor UMM Ive played
    Wow, this map looks really interesting. I'd love to play on it.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Beer me server has it in rotation.. it's fun but does need some balancing tweaks
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  • ={101st}=Whiplash27={101st}=Whiplash27 Posts: 2,080Player
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    Beer me server has it in rotation.. it's fun but does need some balancing tweaks

    Agreed. The team that starts closer to X has one [TOS Violation] of a time assaulting. Takes them longer to get to Z from what I can tell, X is extremely difficult to defend since it's much more open compared to Y, and Y is not that easy to assault because you're pushed into a valley where if you climb the mountain around it, you'll be exposed to tons of sniper fire.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    edited November 2015
    Ya I was thinking it could be a slight elevation advantage where the strong side might have better sight lines..could be an easy fix... still I like the idea of the map
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  • (Beer_Me)Roach(Beer_Me)Roach Posts: 248Player
    So let me see if I understand this clearly , the rules for the contest have changed because I do not see anything in the original guidelines that say the map needs to be 4 minute gameplay.
    We had a vote and Great outdoors won ,
    If you impose 4 minute gameplay then you eliminate a lot of peoples maps which are Great Outdoor maps.
    If we wanted to have a contest for competition maps then we would have voted that way . It seems unfair to alter the rules now to appease a certain group.
  • [Dev]Rawrster[Dev]Rawrster Posts: 328Developer
    So let me see if I understand this clearly , the rules for the contest have changed because I do not see anything in the original guidelines that say the map needs to be 4 minute gameplay.
    We had a vote and Great outdoors won ,
    If you impose 4 minute gameplay then you eliminate a lot of peoples maps which are Great Outdoor maps.
    If we wanted to have a contest for competition maps then we would have voted that way . It seems unfair to alter the rules now to appease a certain group.

    Default time limits for our maps have been 3-4 minutes for a very long time. Our official server settings, which all of our maps are designed for, have always abided by those time limits. I fail to see how maintaining this standard is changing the rules.
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,176Player
    There goes my 10 minute long campfest design.
    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    #evilstare
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