Inner Hospital

SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
At this moment in time:
6 of the top 10 (18 of the top 50) most populated servers are running Inner Hospital. Almost half of the people on those top 50 servers are currently playing an Inner Hospital match.

Servers that rotate through all the FLO maps find themselves with playtime distributions like so:
server_maps.php?GSID=4677035

I don't think anybody would argue with Inner's overwhelming popularity.


So here's what I'm wondering.
Devs: How do you guys feel about it? Is there disappointment that a slice from a remake overshadows more recent OC like Slums and Cold Front? Has its popularity influenced the design of later maps (Data Center comes to mind here)? Was the high player & encounter density intentional (FLO vs BDX designation) or a happy accident?

Players: I know some of the forum regulars tire of it. Are there aspects of the map you'd like to see more often?


My thoughts: It's relatively hard to get flanked (and when it happens, the team can normally figure out where the weak link was and address it next round). That comes from simple map flow with sufficient separation between areas. Most chokepoints are 'clean'; players understand where they got shot from and how they lost an encounter. That lowers frustration. The map isn't resource-heavy with long sight lines and particle effects impacting performance. It's fairly flat, making it easy for players to understand where potential threats are and scan for them. (Compare to Cold Front's Y objective, an extremely complex area.)


With the imminent start of a new map contest, there may be lessons to learn from what's been popular and what hasn't in the released maps.
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Comments

  • =IK=.Scooby=IK=.Scooby Posts: 119Player
    Yeah, I love some Inner Hospital. Easily my most played map, although I think that has something to do with how popular the map is overall as well, because I love Downtown and Spring Street but there's no 24/7 servers for those maps to my recollection.

    I also think it's so loved because it's one of the 12v12 maps that focuses heavily on CQC. Garden is really the only place where "sniping wars" can really occur, and that's only if assault breaks through west. Hectic/close quarters gameplay is what the majority of FPS fans seem to prefer. Strike at Karkand was one of if not the most popular Battlefield map for a long time, and most servers ran it as infantry only(at least on 2 they did). Then you've got maps like Pipeline, Urban Assault and Weapons Cache which ruled the AA2 servers because of how much close interaction there was. I don't think there's a ton of people that find much fun in sniping or getting sniped round after round.
  • SOPMODSOPMOD Posts: 230Player
    A couple of Inner hospital strong points imo.

    - Chokepoints: Breaching or holding them is satisfying.

    - Not many nades that can come over your cover.

    - Limited long lines of sight: Less deaths from unknown or unexpected locations.

    -Predictable flanking routes: again, having certainty to a degree of a head on confrontation is better then not knowing where to look or too many places to look at.
    ---
    Safe spots, where you know you can only get killed from 1 or 2 directions are important i believe. In that aspect i think inner hospital actually still has too many places where you can be killed from different directions.

    Keeping in mind that it's relatively easy to shoot from a distance, the combination of long and mulitple lines of sight has a negative impact i think.
  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,137Player
    Inner hospital almost seems overly simplistic and I do think that helps. I do think that maps that have very little height change (no more than two stories), and limited hiding spots often tend to be the more popular.

    I think that maps that are more open need fog and such to help limit the amount of "where the heck was that guy" moments (think Sandstorm). Cold Front and Slums both seem to be more of the you can get killed from anywhere types of maps and I think that hinders their playability. I would like to see how those two maps would play with a decent fog overlay.

    I think Intercept is also very well designed, I'm not sure why that one never became nearly as popular as Inner.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,191Player
    edited October 2015
    I play entirely too much inner and I wish I could tell you exactly why, I'm one of those inner nubs people often talk about I think :lol:

    I suppose people find something they like and they tend to stick to it. Happens in most FPS games where a certain map or maps are far more popular and played on more than its others.
    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • [Prt_Dictator][Prt_Dictator] Posts: 275Player
    Being a map indoors helps with a few things most players dislike: over abundance of camping spots, too many flanking routes and random nades across the map.
    Also visually its what a good map should be: clean, colorful and, more importantly, readable.
    When people said the new maps were ugly, i don't think anyone was asking for them to get dirtier and to litter them with the same repeating piece of wood and the same soda can.
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited October 2015
    Saccho wrote: »
    At this moment in time:
    6 of the top 10 (18 of the top 50) most populated servers are running Inner Hospital. Almost half of the people on those top 50 servers are currently playing an Inner Hospital match.

    Servers that rotate through all the FLO maps find themselves with playtime distributions like so:
    server_maps.php?GSID=4677035

    I don't think anybody would argue with Inner's overwhelming popularity.


    So here's what I'm wondering.
    Devs: How do you guys feel about it? Is there disappointment that a slice from a remake overshadows more recent OC like Slums and Cold Front? Has its popularity influenced the design of later maps (Data Center comes to mind here)? Was the high player & encounter density intentional (FLO vs BDX designation) or a happy accident?

    Players: I know some of the forum regulars tire of it. Are there aspects of the map you'd like to see more often?


    My thoughts: It's relatively hard to get flanked (and when it happens, the team can normally figure out where the weak link was and address it next round). That comes from simple map flow with sufficient separation between areas. Most chokepoints are 'clean'; players understand where they got shot from and how they lost an encounter. That lowers frustration. The map isn't resource-heavy with long sight lines and particle effects impacting performance. It's fairly flat, making it easy for players to understand where potential threats are and scan for them. (Compare to Cold Front's Y objective, an extremely complex area.)


    With the imminent start of a new map contest, there may be lessons to learn from what's been popular and what hasn't in the released maps.

    Very well said and I hope people keep this stuff in mind when they are designing their map for the User Made Map Competition even if it is a 12v12 Great Outdoors Themed. You simply cannot have a map just all terrain no buildings no CQB all long distance that I am sure some people have in mind and expect it to be popular or work with this game, Judging by a few UMM's I have seen that people seem to bring up in rural open map topics etc.

    Inner Hospital may be the most popular map and yes that is due to a lot of things you have said above. Like the simple design of it easy to know where you got shot where your team screwed up. Also some what harder to get flanked vs many other maps in the game. But it's far from a design to follow exactly Inner Hospital definitely has it flaws, Especially trying to do stuff on 12v12 just becomes a huge cluster/nade fest. That's just something else to keep mind. I think the main thing here is Inner Hospital is loved so much because it offers that CQB style where ever you go and as well offers Long Distance shots if you choose it you are not forced into the long distance fire fights. Also the simple design of it. Honestly if I was playing this map for the first time I would have it down pat within in a few rounds and by the end of the match have a really good idea what to do next time I play it.

    Good things:
    - Simple Design - Not a whole lot of lame corners and spots to check. Not really any spots in the map give the play invisibility except for defense spawn but the Objective Extraction is not in defense spawn thankfully.
    - Easy to learn
    - CQB - The average FPS player loves CQB style maps.
    - 4 choke points. All the choke points are not ideal but compared to other official maps its miles better.

    Bad things:
    - Very defensive sided map, If we had better maps to choose from I know Inner Hospital would not be this popular.
    - Can become a huge nade fest. Spam nades are very easy throw and get kills, also very simple to learn.
    - Can become a huge cluster 12v12.

    There is probably more good and bad things but real fast that's what I come up with, But the biggest point I want to get across is just because Inner Hospital is the most popular does not make it a perfect map to follow and copy sorta thing.

    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,137Player
    edited October 2015
    Been playing a few UMM outdoor maps and I'm just not a big fan (never was in the past either). I think the old iron sight AAO style of outdoor maps were more tolerable. Took more skill to win. Now, it's just pick sniper or DM and go to town. Often times the round takes the entire time (which has been 6 minute rounds).

    I definitely agree that outdoor map doesn't need to mean make it a huge sniper fest. That would just be brutal.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    Yah those maps need Balance big time. They don't have any balance. Exactly like you said grab a sniper or DM and go have sniper/camp fest.
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • frankoffrankof Posts: 1,032Moderator
    Whiplash27 wrote: »
    Been playing a few UMM outdoor maps and I'm just not a big fan (never was in the past either). I think the old iron sight AAO style of outdoor maps were more tolerable. Took more skill to win. Now, it's just pick sniper or DM and go to town. Often times the round takes the entire time (which has been 6 minute rounds).

    I definitely agree that outdoor map doesn't need to mean make it a huge sniper fest. That would just be brutal.
    Thats up to the mapmaker, he/she needs to make a decision on what kind of weaponry used on a map.
    Even if its tempting, a snipe(m24) might not be a good idea even on a long range map.

    ss_4_frankof.png
  • IO_i_OIIO_i_OI Posts: 1,107Player
    I loved Inner Hospital. It was the first map I spent a lot of time on. But now, it's like playing that favorite song over and over and over.... you start getting sick of it.

    Your Private Server Name Here - Inner Hospital Only <<< boring.
    googley avatar aapg


  • Error_404Error_404 Posts: 7Player
    Up and over is nice. Also the north stairs and west wing. The fact that everything is somehow connected is also good.
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited October 2015
    The map layout makes sense. Something missing from other maps.
    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • Yato^Yato^ Posts: 103Player
    Innerhospital is popular, lots of people like it. It's still a boring and bad map, it's perfect for new players to get the hang of the game but it's by no means a good map design wise. Too simple & straight forward.
  • vapor.ivapor.i Posts: 270Player
    Our Slaughterhouse #1 server runs inner and we stay busy night after night.....the map is great. Although I wish they opened up 2nd floor a bit more, we love it!
    AA2 veteran player / fanboy
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Personally I hate playing the map with randoms, I think it's a good comp map when it's 4v4 or 5v5 but 12v12 pub sux.. seeing inner in most servers daily makes me rage inside.. these nubs need some variety
    _____________________________
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  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,137Player
    edited October 2015
    I basically only play UMM servers now (i.e. Beer Me). I've gotten tired of the official maps. Unfortunately, having such a small selection of maps and then only a few of them are popular as it is, makes things too repetitive. The split between BDX and FLO makes it worse. If you like 12v12 there's a bunch of maps not available to you and same with if you like 6v6 (even worse).
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • SOPMODSOPMOD Posts: 230Player
    Speaking of UMM's... Where did all the servers running AA2 maps like Border and Dusk go? There used to be quite a few of them.

    I thought they would be back with the mission editor update.
  • [CLS]_SgtMac[CLS]_SgtMac Posts: 199Moderator
    Hoping Altan will update the maps so they are playable again...
  • -=}WoLvErInE{=--=}WoLvErInE{=- Posts: 1,129Beta Tester
    Yeah, I've left Altan few messages and he hasn't responded back yet. Not sure if he's busy, or just done with updating them.
  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,137Player
    edited October 2015
    Honestly, I don't mind Altan not updating his maps. I'd rather if people want AA2/3 remakes, that people just make them from scratch and make them original and up-to-date. The old maps almost look cheap due to their old textures and the like.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
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