MAP Feedback: Slums

[Dev]Rawrster[Dev]Rawrster Posts: 329Developer
No map changes here, though removal of Smoke and changes to other systems may have changed your opinion of the map. If that is the case, please share.
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Comments

  • RedBaron64(ITA)RedBaron64(ITA) Posts: 173Player
    Removal of smoke grenades is really a bad decision...
  • [Dev]Rawrster[Dev]Rawrster Posts: 329Developer
    Removal of smoke grenades is really a bad decision...

    For what reasons?
  • RedBaron64(ITA)RedBaron64(ITA) Posts: 173Player
    Removal of smoke grenades is really a bad decision...

    For what reasons?

    Because now we cannot do a good coverage on open spaces.......the fog grenade is too fast.....in an open map i.e like border/slums it is surrealistic don't have a smoke to cover the spaces
  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    edited May 2015
    i'd rather objective areas were sealed off instead of fully exposed to more angles than you can count, not to mention countless angles to toss flashes and frags, air bursting or otherwise.


  • iNv|eKCommiNv|eKComm Posts: 394Player
    edited May 2015
    Removal of smoke grenades is really a bad decision...

    For what reasons?

    Well, for one, you completely destroy many organized strategies. For example, running the flag on inner hospital. There are many situations where smoke walls are integral parts of an assault strategy.
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    The problem with only having fogs is that it makes a move obvious. Fogs are quick and have a very short utilization time. Smokes have a better utilization time and leave defense guessing.
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    For another, they make people move in pubs.
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    A better solution would be to limit them further rather than completely removing them. Maybe 1 per smoke instead of two? It would provide a very interesting decision to the player. That is, choosing between two fogs or one smoke.

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  • 12ampage12ampage Posts: 64Player
    Removal of smoke grenades is really a bad decision...

    For what reasons?

    A better solution would be to limit them further rather than completely removing them. Maybe 1 per person instead of two? It would provide a very interesting decision to the player. That is, choosing between two fogs or one smoke.

    I think this is an interesting idea to consider. I could see cases where both loadouts would be handy.
  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    well, in previous game, smokes were always OP, but were limited in number. not everyone could carry them. just like anything op (sniper, medic, saw, 203, rpg, smokes).
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    we've said it since this beta came out that allowing every single person in the server to grab 2-4 smokes (48-96 smokes total) just blankets the entire map with smoke. enough on hand to redeploy every 35 seconds for the entirety of the round... just takes all the strategy out of the game and undermines any attempt to find a proper balance of map design.
    -
    smokes still serve a purpose. we just need to limit them so there's an actual thought process in using them up. a valuable resource that can change a strategy. moderation.
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    so still, we suggest you limit loadouts instead of completely remove something like a smoke. you shouldn't give everyone on the team a sniper rifle. smoke is really no different.


  • iNv|eKCommiNv|eKComm Posts: 394Player
    edited May 2015
    No map changes here, though removal of Smoke and changes to other systems may have changed your opinion of the map. If that is the case, please share.
    -
    Its reasons like this why i don't trust dev's when they say something didn't change when its clearly different.
    -
    North roof has been flattened out considerably.
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    Anything else you're not telling us rawr?

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  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    seems the spawn barriers changed in cold front and slums? slums NE spawn near zulu seems more confined to north (which means the team spawning in the west can get up and snipe anyone trying to cross east zulu to yankee), and coldfront defense barrier heading south was shortened (not that i care)
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    regardless of opinion on the changes, there seem to be actual undocumented changes here...


  • [eSC]General.Jung[eSC]General.Jung Posts: 144Player
    edited May 2015
    The length of the revive timout is still unacceptable and this map shows this even more, as I forecasted. This timeout makes it almost impossible to revive someone that is not very close to your location. Clearing an area decently before reviving is almost not possible anymore. I am going to quit the medic job in AA:PG with these enforced unadjustable length.
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    Last but not least the missing smoke grenades are also a leaving a big leak in tactical depth as I already mentioned in other threads.
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  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    jung, if you want a fast revive from a teammate before the timer runs out... i suggest you

    1. not stray too far away from your teammates, and
    2. don't get taken out in a spot that will take a considerable amount of time to clear of enemy threats...


  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Exactly what shifty said, if you think you can run around south and have time to rotate all the way north when you feel like it to revive someone you are Delusional!!!
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  • RedBaron64(ITA)RedBaron64(ITA) Posts: 173Player
    I don't remember an FPS game without a smoke grenade. Fog grenade=chinese smoke.....
  • [Dev]Rawrster[Dev]Rawrster Posts: 329Developer
    No map changes here, though removal of Smoke and changes to other systems may have changed your opinion of the map. If that is the case, please share.
    -
    Its reasons like this why i don't trust dev's when they say something didn't change when its clearly different.
    -
    North roof has been flattened out considerably.
    -
    Anything else you're not telling us rawr?

    No changes have been made to these maps in a good long while, but it is also possible something was changed like 5 or 6 months ago that I'm not remembering and you guys don't have yet. I will dig through the logs and double check.

  • [Dev]Rawrster[Dev]Rawrster Posts: 329Developer
    Full Slums changes:
    - Fixed collision regarding sandbags on rear of Zulu building
    - Fixed an issue where players could jump on top of a light pole
    - Fixed a blocking volume issue that never made it out to the open beta
    - Fixed an issue with bullet penetration on an object in the map
    - Some performance based tweaks to the lighting
    - Slomo Destroyable Stuff added to the C4 version
    - Fixed a material issue relating to bullet decals not showing up
    - Updated bongo truck
    - Repositioned a few boxes in the Y objective to enable vault/mantle in key spots (slight movment ~16uu)
    - Changed North Alley roof to be flat and adjusted props there (12/22/2014)
    - Fixed an issue with some trash meshes preventing players from being revived

    That covers everything all the way back to mid-September 2014
  • iNv|eKCommiNv|eKComm Posts: 394Player
    Thank you rawr :blush:
    -
    you da bestest
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  • [Dev]Rawrster[Dev]Rawrster Posts: 329Developer
    Also, some info on the roof flattening....

    That was to counteract some really nasty issues with prone on the peaked roof that used to be there. Basically, I could be prone and have a nice sightline across the map, but all you could see of me is my gun pointing out at a weird upper angle and maybe a sliver of my head.
  • iNv|eKCommiNv|eKComm Posts: 394Player
    Also, some info on the roof flattening....

    That was to counteract some really nasty issues with prone on the peaked roof that used to be there. Basically, I could be prone and have a nice sightline across the map, but all you could see of me is my gun pointing out at a weird upper angle and maybe a sliver of my head.

    I agree, thats a warranted change. Plus those really steep angles always lead to a little glitchyness with the characters position and collision (it seams).
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  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,191Player
    edited May 2015
    The thing about smoke removal is that the planting of bombs, extacting of flags.. crossing an open street, reviving, securing or even getting cover from long range fire (including the dreaded sniper) is 99% harder without consistent cover and this can be applied to almost all of the bigger wide open AAPG maps like Slums and Coldfront.

    Lets face it, the missions mainly all favour the defence team as it is, so the benefits of smoke volume and the extended duration of that of a normal smoke grenade is sometimes the ONLY way you have any sort of chance of succeeding the mission without having to obliterate the whole enemy team. infact, I'm not so sure removing the smoke grenade is providing any pro's at all.. all I can see from it's removal is cons. Fog's are good for fast cover, to move out from a pinned down location or to literally use as a 'fakie' for the enemies to presume your somewhere you actually not, but they don't serve the same purpose as a proper smoke does. I honestly think there is a solid place in the game for both types of smoke.

    I kinda feel after playing and doing this testing without them I would favor keeping proper smokes, even if only for the assault team, just to help in climbing that already cruelly high mountain. Now, I admittedly don't actually use much smoke when I play but I'll tell you what.. I'm sometimes mighty glad one of my team mates brought some with him because they can save your virtual life and allow that mission to succeed.

    Actually can someone, anyone.. kindly enlighten me on any such pro's to their removal? If anything I whole heartedly agree with @.shhfiftyfive- 's post from earlier in the thread..
    well, in previous game, smokes were always OP, but were limited in number. not everyone could carry them. just like anything op (sniper, medic, saw, 203, rpg, smokes).
    -
    we've said it since this beta came out that allowing every single person in the server to grab 2-4 smokes (48-96 smokes total) just blankets the entire map with smoke. enough on hand to redeploy every 35 seconds for the entirety of the round... just takes all the strategy out of the game and undermines any attempt to find a proper balance of map design.
    -
    smokes still serve a purpose. we just need to limit them so there's an actual thought process in using them up. a valuable resource that can change a strategy. moderation.
    -
    so still, we suggest you limit loadouts instead of completely remove something like a smoke. you shouldn't give everyone on the team a sniper rifle. smoke is really no different.

    It would be great to keep them, but have them not so widely available, maybe attach their usage and amount to a specific role?, I would rather see that and agree to that than see them aimlessly removed from the game entirely.. because I really think they do serve a good purpose.
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  • Hey.I.Have.A.GunHey.I.Have.A.Gun Posts: 641Player
    I believe someone suggested giving people the choice of one smoke or two fogs. I think that's worth trying.
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    Shortening the duration of smokes could be an option also.
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