MAP FEEDBACK: Downtown and Shadow Step

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Comments

  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    On forehead shooting -- the gun barrel isn't particularly far off from camera position.
    OWvX7qs.png

    On proper positioning -- army doctrine boils down to "don't stand in front of the window, are you trying to get yourself shot?"
    cnYljSf.png

    If the position is too strong, limit its sightlines, or narrow the building width so the player can't stand quite so far back, or let's see how the upcoming alternate path via Shadowstep offers a more covered route to flank the window player. I don't think "stand back from the window if you want to live" is a concept that requires years of FPS experience or a deep understanding of camera position and geometry. Similarly, from the side of the person getting shot, I like the idea of the blue backdrop and increasing contrast there.

    An important general point: for a player to be minimally exposed from that window, they can only be watching one spot. If the bakery player wants to check mid-upper, he must be exposed to other angles as well. They're also in a situation where, while he's looking out at a large area with many possible enemy positions, the enemies can be honed in on the small window where his head's going to pop up. All of those enemies can use cover, too!
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Well, this is where I get into the 'bush camper' comparison: The shots can 'apparently' come from just about anywhere when nothing but a forehead is showing, especially with the M24. By the time you scrutinize every possible source of exposure, you're dead. Isn't that what the bush discussion was about?
    From my point of view, the bush discussion was about being able to purposefully scan a position and not see a player. I see how that ties in to your point about effectiveness of leaning and not seeing a player's head sticking around the side of an object.

    I've also made a similar argument about the abundance of cover options and visual clutter/readability on some maps in the past.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,621Beta Tester
    Nice posts BC, as usual. Believe it or not I say this stuff so that more information comes out to people who might not know it...including me. I like your commentary and inclusion of Figure 7-8. Heheh!

    The forehead gun....do a pic of it leaning and see how much more of the guy we'd see at a corner if it was the gun position instead!

    By the way, in an actual urban environment like A'stan or Iraq, one of the things that snipers do when setting up a position is get way back in a darkened room to limit exposure and contrast so they don't stick out like a sore thumb.
    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    wanna see something silly about supported? go into supported position in a window. turn left and right more than 45 degrees and hug that side of the window you're facing. check those corner angles both with and w/o ADS. see how your bullets conflict with the camera totally based on whether you're ADS or not...
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    the result is if you're supported looking left, you can aim and shoot farther to the left if you ADS compared to non-ADS. but opposite that, if you aim right, you can see and shoot further to the right side by non-ADS than you can ADS. the contradiction is that the barrel of your gun hasn't moved (it is locked into a fixed supported position), yet the bullets come from different starting points. does that seem silly? how the camera for ADS and non-ADS are not coming from the same location? (your weapon)
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    AAPG supported. ADS vs. non-ADS. bullet origin... camera.
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    this doesn't happen when not supported.. instead, you can see another interesting situation, where:
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    1. when you are ADS your weapon sways up and down (always consistent now. always starts from bottom and begins by going upward) but...
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    2. when you are non-ADS (this is very uncommon knowledge as it is hard to notice) your camera weaves to the left and right (which takes a considerable time to cycle. 10 seconds?). this actually leads to people's frustration where when they ADS... the crosshair doesn't go exactly where the non-ADS crosshair was pointing... (there is quite a large margin for error due to how far left and right the non-ADS sway is). what actually happens? once you ADS, that non-ADS sway, that non-ADS crosshair location is actually ignored, and instead your ADS crosshair always comes up at the same "center point" of that non-ADS side sway.
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    not saying whether i think this is good or bad, just saying it's worth seeing here so you can understand how the game is coded...
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    AAPG non-ADS side sway crosshair location vs. ADS initial crosshair location:
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  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    edited May 2015
    BCPull wrote: »
    On forehead shooting -- the gun barrel isn't particularly far off from camera position.
    OWvX7qs.png
    true, but where's the side view of that pic @BCPull ? :pensive: -

    a bad side effect to using your face as point of origin instead of the end of your weapon's barrel... seen here....

    this guy was clearly behind me/my weapon before i fired on the enemy. i clearly never once hit his player mesh. yet his hitbox took a shot to the face. this result i suspect is also probably some issue with player collision issues as seen when leaving a congested spawn. that spawn player collision is very nasty fellas.


  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    edited May 2015
    He's still to the left of your weapon when your first shot is fired and runs through your sights during the burst (bullet count started at 31)

    wi1djRd.png
    1Y9F8gj.png
    fxhlTDW.png

    On the side view -- I'm not sure why it matters? The issue raised was forehead shooting and bullet origin when facing an opponent.

    In any case, I'm happy to accept this convention in exchange for bullets going where I intend for them to go. We don't have the proprioception for gun location in the game like we would in real life.
  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    edited May 2015
    correction: i fired 3 bullets when he was in front of me, (but not in front of my weapon barrel, which was my point about side view). none of my bullets hit his mesh. 120Hz and 122fps display.
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    ping, tickrate, player collision, client side hit detection, silly prediction... all possible reason why the server claims i shot him... but on my screen, 120Hz, 122fps, i never hit his mesh, at all. not once. you can comb the video footage screen by screen and you won't see my client hitting his mesh either.
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    i know some may think it impossible to have someone's brain slow down time to recall that much detail in a literal split second, but you can do that. it will happen very fast in about 1 second in the video, but there is literally 120 unique screenshots to be taken there during that one second of motion video. i know when my bullets were discharged, even considering bullet travel time. they did not hit his mesh.
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    let me recap:
    i fired 1 bullet when he first left my line of fire when he was out of my line of fire when he was on my left when i thought he was retreating to my left.
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    he then strafed to my right and crossed my line of fire. i actually then paused fire when i saw him coming back to my right. after he passed my line of fire, i then reacquired my target and fired another burst. this is what bcpull's screenshots show too...
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    my teammate was technically still in front of me on my screen for 2 of those following bullets, but again, neither hit his mesh. perhaps a client side discrepancy with deciding who's screen was more accurate. we know the game just tosses a coin and has no empirical way of solving these discrepancies.
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    my screen shows the enemy drop dead after the 5th bullet, and audio tells me i've hit a teammate and violated ROE and killed him...
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    also, note that by killing that enemy i ended the round. so more questions: how much of what was on my screen was calculated client side? how much was delayed and sent from the server?
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    1. when you see the enemy drop dead after the 5th bullet... was that client side? i assume it was... if not, how was i able to get 11 total bullets off before the server ended the round for me...
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    if they died before that 5th bullet, and that corpse dropping was delayed from the server.. then the round should have ended then and there and i shouldn't have been able to fire another 6 bullets... idk. i've seen rounds end with corpse mid air. other times the round doesn't end til the body hits the floor. no consistency...
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    2. when teammate got headshot, i was prompted with audio "hit marker" sound of bullet hitting mesh... and ROE warning, only after he left my screen, during about the 5th bullet (same times as enemy dropped). was that client side? or was that delayed info being sent to me by the server from earlier bullets that clearly didn't hit his mesh???? again, how was i able to fire 11 bullets instead of just 3 or 5?
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    either way, bad. but curious to know which is the case.


  • iNv|eKCommiNv|eKComm Posts: 394Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Sometimes I wish I played with a clan that actually pre-planned stuff and did proper comms.... :(

    Its called competition.
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  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    edited May 2015
    so yesterday the subforum stopped updating properly for this thread and at least one other thread. the general subforum incorrectly says this thread was last posted in 17 hours ago, instead of 15 hours ago (or right now as soon as i hit send)...
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    basically, due to mysterious website reason, this thread will be unable to stay on the front page for much longer, due to the website not properly acknowledging how long ago since the newest post.


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