Perhaps I have struck a nerve ehh? You never knew me I never knew you only by name your damage had been done by the time I met most of CLS , FYI we are still friends with CLS.
Again I never said you cheated , Its simply what so many other people believe probably a coincedance huh?
LoL perhaps you can't let anything go. I am still friends with [CLS]_Airborne328 leader of CLS(I infact have him on facebook and talk to him occassionally) i still occasionally talk to Sgt.Mac and just the other day I was playing and talking with [CLS]DrDeath. Though they know why I left. I wanted to join a team more dedicated and interested in competition(also a team without someone named Runner) and that's what I did. I did not do any damage aside from the fact of leaving that team. If I did any damage they must of really liked me, for it to hurt so much.)
You can stop now no one cares about this but me and you so if you want to keep going feel free to private message me and I will glady keep going.
Well its not my place to speak for others so , we will let this go. Its not relevant to the thread anyway, but the point remains there are a lot of people playing this game (Not as much as we all wanted obviously)
But I think that the game should be allowed to flow at a pace that suits everyone, particularly when it comes to usermade maps. Its very simple, play the ones you like and do not play the ones that you don't like.
And for God Sake if your going to have a contest then you should not exclude any portion of the community.
The population is small enough without excluding some folks.
No one is being excluded. The devs feel 4 minutes is enough for the default time on their maps. You guys can still set whatever time you want on your private servers. You can still enter the contest and have your map run at 4 min default and set it to 7 minutes to appeal your team and people who play on your server.
Yes we can, we just won't have much chance to compete in the mapping contest now will we?
Apparently only certain amendaments are protected here ?
Good luck
To be fair to both sides, the game was made to appeal to the mass population of gamers. Not the comp scene and not the classic AA scene. When the announcement came that a new AA game was coming out the major things that were being asked for were 1) Make the game like AA2 and 2) Make a good competition mode. Interestingly, AA2 had both. The comp scene was extremely active in those days with a great tournament mode, lots of teams, ladders, leagues, and touraments.
Both haven't come to pass. I remember comp groups in these forums and in the beta forums, both times they were dissolved because of internal BS as well as tension between the comp group and the beta testers. The beta group is also mostly a mixture of "I'm here to do one job, that's test" and "I'd prefer if this game was more like classic AA" types. Minimal comp guys, those who are into the comp scene are pretty much all gone from the beta program at this point (from what I gather).
AA2 fans have been here since Day 1 saying, this stinks, make it more like AA2. You won't go many posts around here without an AA2 reference. It was even more prevalent when this game first went beta.
No, the game wasn't made to appeal to comp players and it wasn't made to appeal to classic AA fans. Sure, the Devs have thrown both sides a bone here and there as versions have come and gone, but the main focus was to make a free shooter that's as appealing to the mass public as possible. In today's world of extremely short attention spans, 7 minute rounds are not as much of a seller. That's why it's more of a mish mosh of COD, CS, and AA rather than something with a clearly defined path.
You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
So I played in the BeerMe server after like a year (I was kicked/banned for being a clear cheese eater a while back so I stopped even though it was one of my fav servers). I have to say that some of the maps have great potential, no matter the time limit. I know you guys have been going back and forth but here are some simple facts:
1- The devs do not prioritize comp players
2- Lower round times are proven to be more effective as it can be seen in so many other popular games
3- It is possible to make a big map with only a 4 time round
4- a 4 kDR is totally fake, come on @-colts.iog- LOL
Yes we can, we just won't have much chance to compete in the mapping contest now will we?
Apparently only certain amendaments are protected here ?
Good luck
I'm not sure why you say you don't have a chance in the competition but tbh I have only skimmed through this long [TOS Violation] thread. From what I understand is that you want to make a map (or a map that is already made) to have a 7 minute timer. Well since this competition only accepts 4min rounds, I'm sure you can make modifications to your map(s) to make this criteria. Also, there is a chance that you THINK you need more than 4 minutes. Why don't you tell us a map that you think requires more than 4 minutes and I will gather some players and see if that is really true?
1- The devs do not prioritize comp players
2- Lower round times are proven to be more effective as it can be seen in so many other popular games
3- It is possible to make a big map with only a 4 time round
4- a 4 kDR is totally fake, come on @-colts.iog- LOL
Not so sure those are "simple facts"
1. They don't, but maybe they should? In AA2 there was a strong balance between comp and public design. Maps generally played well, but differently, in both contexts. More specifically, though, the top comp players were just as good playing in pub servers. Sure, it can be annoying playing against people that much better than you, but there's no magical mystery style of play that's different. Quick reactions, situational awareness, map understanding, communication. Pub -> comp, all need the same skills to succeed. So if maps are designed to be playable by a full server but also BALANCED in the hands of skilled comp teams, they end up being better overall.
2. Lower round times WITH THE MOVEMENT/ETC OF THIS GAME make more sense. A 4min timer on Mountain Pass back in the day would be ridiculous. There's no single rule that says lower map timers are better. Map time has to be based on how players can/should move through the map. To use AA2 examples, Urban was fast as all [TOS Violation]. JRTC Farm Raid started with a LOOOONG crawl as quietly as you could with the occasional sprint between hay bales. Time isn't good or bad on its own without considering the map.
3. It is. It's possible to make a small map with a long timer. If timer fits with style of gameplay, both map design and game physics, then whatever the time is is OK.
4. Whine more? Colts was a solid, 2ish kdr player iirc when I was in CLS with him (long time ago, eh? Tell Airborne I said hi). Totally believable to see him with a 4kdr these days. [TOS Violation], I have 4+ kdr sessions some nights and I'm average at best. Sad to see people jump straight to crying h4x when they see a high fragrate. Some people are just that good. Some are [mod edit] campers that don't take any risks and watch the same chokepoint every round. There are plenty of ways to build a positive kdr (some cheap, some solid) for people with steady hands, low pings, high framerates, and an understanding of the game.
@Beer Me - I play on youir server almost every time I play. Same people day in and day out. Just as you say Colts doesn't speak for the whole community, that finger has to point at you guys too. I love the maps you run, but there's nobody here who can speak for the majority of players.
1- The devs do not prioritize comp players
2- Lower round times are proven to be more effective as it can be seen in so many other popular games
3- It is possible to make a big map with only a 4 time round
4- a 4 kDR is totally fake, come on @-colts.iog- LOL
Not so sure those are "simple facts"
1. They don't, but maybe they should? In AA2 there was a strong balance between comp and public design. Maps generally played well, but differently, in both contexts. More specifically, though, the top comp players were just as good playing in pub servers. Sure, it can be annoying playing against people that much better than you, but there's no magical mystery style of play that's different. Quick reactions, situational awareness, map understanding, communication. Pub -> comp, all need the same skills to succeed. So if maps are designed to be playable by a full server but also BALANCED in the hands of skilled comp teams, they end up being better overall.
2. Lower round times WITH THE MOVEMENT/ETC OF THIS GAME make more sense. A 4min timer on Mountain Pass back in the day would be ridiculous. There's no single rule that says lower map timers are better. Map time has to be based on how players can/should move through the map. To use AA2 examples, Urban was fast as all [TOS Violation]. JRTC Farm Raid started with a LOOOONG crawl as quietly as you could with the occasional sprint between hay bales. Time isn't good or bad on its own without considering the map.
3. It is. It's possible to make a small map with a long timer. If timer fits with style of gameplay, both map design and game physics, then whatever the time is is OK.
4. Whine more? Colts was a solid, 2ish kdr player iirc when I was in CLS with him (long time ago, eh? Tell Airborne I said hi). Totally believable to see him with a 4kdr these days. [TOS Violation], I have 4+ kdr sessions some nights and I'm average at best. Sad to see people jump straight to crying h4x when they see a high fragrate. Some people are just that good. Some are chickensh*t campers that don't take any risks and watch the same chokepoint every round. There are plenty of ways to build a positive kdr (some cheap, some solid) for people with steady hands, low pings, high framerates, and an understanding of the game.
1. Well it's a simple fact since you agreed. I only pointed this out to let the BeerMe guys know that because for once what the devs say is the same as comp players, it doesn't mean they prioritize us (the comp players). And yes I agree with everything else you said.
2. I was referring to this game, so you are right and so was I.
3. I'm really not sure how a small map can have a longer timer. Can you give an example?
4. I was being sarcastic but I guess I wasn't clear enough!
3. I'm really not sure how a small map can have a longer timer. Can you give an example?
Dusk is a fairly small map overall, but with complicated routes so plenty of places to hide/move tactically. SF Sandstorm was small-mid sized but because of the sand & sound you had to move carefully. Bridge Crossing (in the old days) is maybe the best example. Even though it's long, there are only a small number of places to be and a small number of ways to push through them. So REALLY knowing your angles, winning races to or firefights for key areas of the map, and reading & reacting to your enemies strategy quickly made some rounds super fast and some super slow. My points with timers is that there are fast, knock 'em all down firefights and there are intense but slow-moving pushes for every square inch of the map.
My point there really was that some maps are better suited for rushing, some for tactical, calculated pushes. Just because the overall area of the map is bigger doesn't mean it will be slow, and just because the overall area of the map is smaller doesn't mean it needs to be fast.
4. I was being sarcastic but I guess I wasn't clear enough!
lol gotcha. Don't know you, so didn't know to take it that way.
I started this thread because I have a personal preference for slow tactical maps of which there were none because UMMs had not yet been implemented. They have been now and so long as there is just one map at a time that I like and onto which I can get to play, I'm actually relatively happy. I introduced some criticisms of the lack of reality in the way the game works, rather than the way the maps work, because I thought it might raise some support. I certainly didn't want to inaugurate a flamefest like what we have on this thread right now. I don't like what I think you are referring to as 'completion' play but that's the right of players to play any way they like. I don't like maps which make this style of play virtually mandatory, but so long as there are other map choices there is no reason why 23 good men and true should all be slaughtered in less than four minutes if that's the way they like to spend their time. I admire the skills of top ranking CQB players and hope that it is achieved with practice and dexterity rather than some form of cheating but I don't actually care if it is because it's a style of play that I want to avoid.
Might I ask, without inflaming the situation any further, what play factors are considered to have been adopted for "competition" style play that wouldn't be in the game if competition style play hadn't been given some increased importance during development? Is it something that cannot be avoided on any map or is it something specific to official map design? If the former, is it impossible to circumvent on "non competition" style maps? If it is just a feature of official map design, UMMs can provide different fields of play for those wanting them.
Just so that a slightly different perspective on AAPG play can be seen; I am a very unskilled player. I don't care if I win or lose a round. I am not the slightest bit interested in these strange statistical performance rates. I don't see the game as some sort of virtual racquet ball game with guns that you have to win at any cost. I just like to enter a virtual world where things are different from the real everyday world, where there is a rise in adrenaline levels and where problems set by the game can be solved with some small degree of satisfaction. Aren't there others out there who feel the same as I do? Are you all consumed by rankings and status? You are entitled to feel that way but I would prefer to avoid you in the game as you tend to undermine my enjoyment of the immersion factor. So I look for maps where you don't like to play and hopefully you do the same, as is your right. And that was why I opened this thread to find maps to my liking; not to stage a verbal equivalent of CQB!
A heck of a lot of people play the game who feel the same as you about it Tatsfield, everyone has there own preferences, when different preferences clash.. then you start to see happening what we are seeing here. It's the ol' pub/comp/camp/rambo/skill/newb thing.. It gets all fired up like a battle for middle earth.
Nobody is right or wrong.. as nobody can force or tell another person how to play. It don't matter what the game is designed for, people have played games however they prefer to play them since the concept of gaming was invented. One mans gold is another mans tin and vice versa.
I just wish the passion shown here and elsewhere was spent more constructively.. rather than look like the crap is getting kicked out of each other.. using words
If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.
There are other games that better simulate reality, and play at the pace you desire. I'm not saying stop playing AA, just reading what you wrote @Tatsfield sounds like you're an Arma type of guy.
AA isn't a simulator, never was. It skips all the long boring parts and gets you close into the battle. Even the largest map in AA is nothing in Arma.
Anyway, I don't thing there are any special play factors adapted to suit the competition player... a comp player will just use what he's given at a higher level because of many factors..
Better awareness
Quicker reflexes
Better control of weapon
Are just a few that will put a comp player above the average player.. we play with confidence and a purpose, your average player looks completely lost to us. The extreme slow movement tells me he's lacking all of the above. There isn't really anything you can change map wise, we adapt quicker to any circumstances.
I apologize for letting this get out of control. My only point was to say that the contest rules changed after they were set and it was disappointing to a lot of people who were under the impression that the theme,
The Great Outdoors theme as presented with the other 2 themes seemed to indicate that any size map had a chance to win, however if you impose a 4 minute limit it does in fact disqualify some because lets face it' They just would not meet the criteria.
This was imposed after the fact and was disappointing to some of us that's all.
I apologize for letting this get out of control. My only point was to say that the contest rules changed after they were set and it was disappointing to a lot of people who were under the impression that the theme,
The Great Outdoors theme as presented with the other 2 themes seemed to indicate that any size map had a chance to win, however if you impose a 4 minute limit it does in fact disqualify some because lets face it' They just would not meet the criteria.
This was imposed after the fact and was disappointing to some of us that's all.
Prove your map needs more than 4 minutes than maybe something can change?
And we feel like 4 min would work on any map Beer me has.. you just have to play objective first.. not scatter throughout the map and sit... however it's suicide with only 1 bomb location.. hence our suggestions.. but regardless we didn't mean to insult you or anyone .. you make nice maps we just feel they need a little tweaking.
Something the Devs will do to any submitted map anyway.. so go for it
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LoL perhaps you can't let anything go. I am still friends with [CLS]_Airborne328 leader of CLS(I infact have him on facebook and talk to him occassionally) i still occasionally talk to Sgt.Mac and just the other day I was playing and talking with [CLS]DrDeath. Though they know why I left. I wanted to join a team more dedicated and interested in competition(also a team without someone named Runner) and that's what I did. I did not do any damage aside from the fact of leaving that team. If I did any damage they must of really liked me, for it to hurt so much.)
You can stop now no one cares about this but me and you so if you want to keep going feel free to private message me and I will glady keep going.
But I think that the game should be allowed to flow at a pace that suits everyone, particularly when it comes to usermade maps. Its very simple, play the ones you like and do not play the ones that you don't like.
And for God Sake if your going to have a contest then you should not exclude any portion of the community.
The population is small enough without excluding some folks.
the personal attacks END NOW
if I step in here again, someone will be getting a timeout
Apparently only certain amendaments are protected here ?
Good luck
To be fair to both sides, the game was made to appeal to the mass population of gamers. Not the comp scene and not the classic AA scene. When the announcement came that a new AA game was coming out the major things that were being asked for were 1) Make the game like AA2 and 2) Make a good competition mode. Interestingly, AA2 had both. The comp scene was extremely active in those days with a great tournament mode, lots of teams, ladders, leagues, and touraments.
Both haven't come to pass. I remember comp groups in these forums and in the beta forums, both times they were dissolved because of internal BS as well as tension between the comp group and the beta testers. The beta group is also mostly a mixture of "I'm here to do one job, that's test" and "I'd prefer if this game was more like classic AA" types. Minimal comp guys, those who are into the comp scene are pretty much all gone from the beta program at this point (from what I gather).
AA2 fans have been here since Day 1 saying, this stinks, make it more like AA2. You won't go many posts around here without an AA2 reference. It was even more prevalent when this game first went beta.
No, the game wasn't made to appeal to comp players and it wasn't made to appeal to classic AA fans. Sure, the Devs have thrown both sides a bone here and there as versions have come and gone, but the main focus was to make a free shooter that's as appealing to the mass public as possible. In today's world of extremely short attention spans, 7 minute rounds are not as much of a seller. That's why it's more of a mish mosh of COD, CS, and AA rather than something with a clearly defined path.
1- The devs do not prioritize comp players
2- Lower round times are proven to be more effective as it can be seen in so many other popular games
3- It is possible to make a big map with only a 4 time round
4- a 4 kDR is totally fake, come on @-colts.iog- LOL
I'm not sure why you say you don't have a chance in the competition but tbh I have only skimmed through this long [TOS Violation] thread. From what I understand is that you want to make a map (or a map that is already made) to have a 7 minute timer. Well since this competition only accepts 4min rounds, I'm sure you can make modifications to your map(s) to make this criteria. Also, there is a chance that you THINK you need more than 4 minutes. Why don't you tell us a map that you think requires more than 4 minutes and I will gather some players and see if that is really true?
Not so sure those are "simple facts"
1. They don't, but maybe they should? In AA2 there was a strong balance between comp and public design. Maps generally played well, but differently, in both contexts. More specifically, though, the top comp players were just as good playing in pub servers. Sure, it can be annoying playing against people that much better than you, but there's no magical mystery style of play that's different. Quick reactions, situational awareness, map understanding, communication. Pub -> comp, all need the same skills to succeed. So if maps are designed to be playable by a full server but also BALANCED in the hands of skilled comp teams, they end up being better overall.
2. Lower round times WITH THE MOVEMENT/ETC OF THIS GAME make more sense. A 4min timer on Mountain Pass back in the day would be ridiculous. There's no single rule that says lower map timers are better. Map time has to be based on how players can/should move through the map. To use AA2 examples, Urban was fast as all [TOS Violation]. JRTC Farm Raid started with a LOOOONG crawl as quietly as you could with the occasional sprint between hay bales. Time isn't good or bad on its own without considering the map.
3. It is. It's possible to make a small map with a long timer. If timer fits with style of gameplay, both map design and game physics, then whatever the time is is OK.
4. Whine more? Colts was a solid, 2ish kdr player iirc when I was in CLS with him (long time ago, eh? Tell Airborne I said hi). Totally believable to see him with a 4kdr these days. [TOS Violation], I have 4+ kdr sessions some nights and I'm average at best. Sad to see people jump straight to crying h4x when they see a high fragrate. Some people are just that good. Some are [mod edit] campers that don't take any risks and watch the same chokepoint every round. There are plenty of ways to build a positive kdr (some cheap, some solid) for people with steady hands, low pings, high framerates, and an understanding of the game.
1. Well it's a simple fact since you agreed. I only pointed this out to let the BeerMe guys know that because for once what the devs say is the same as comp players, it doesn't mean they prioritize us (the comp players). And yes I agree with everything else you said.
2. I was referring to this game, so you are right and so was I.
3. I'm really not sure how a small map can have a longer timer. Can you give an example?
4. I was being sarcastic but I guess I wasn't clear enough!
My point there really was that some maps are better suited for rushing, some for tactical, calculated pushes. Just because the overall area of the map is bigger doesn't mean it will be slow, and just because the overall area of the map is smaller doesn't mean it needs to be fast.
lol gotcha. Don't know you, so didn't know to take it that way.
Might I ask, without inflaming the situation any further, what play factors are considered to have been adopted for "competition" style play that wouldn't be in the game if competition style play hadn't been given some increased importance during development? Is it something that cannot be avoided on any map or is it something specific to official map design? If the former, is it impossible to circumvent on "non competition" style maps? If it is just a feature of official map design, UMMs can provide different fields of play for those wanting them.
Just so that a slightly different perspective on AAPG play can be seen; I am a very unskilled player. I don't care if I win or lose a round. I am not the slightest bit interested in these strange statistical performance rates. I don't see the game as some sort of virtual racquet ball game with guns that you have to win at any cost. I just like to enter a virtual world where things are different from the real everyday world, where there is a rise in adrenaline levels and where problems set by the game can be solved with some small degree of satisfaction. Aren't there others out there who feel the same as I do? Are you all consumed by rankings and status? You are entitled to feel that way but I would prefer to avoid you in the game as you tend to undermine my enjoyment of the immersion factor. So I look for maps where you don't like to play and hopefully you do the same, as is your right. And that was why I opened this thread to find maps to my liking; not to stage a verbal equivalent of CQB!
Nobody is right or wrong.. as nobody can force or tell another person how to play. It don't matter what the game is designed for, people have played games however they prefer to play them since the concept of gaming was invented. One mans gold is another mans tin and vice versa.
I just wish the passion shown here and elsewhere was spent more constructively.. rather than look like the crap is getting kicked out of each other.. using words
AA isn't a simulator, never was. It skips all the long boring parts and gets you close into the battle. Even the largest map in AA is nothing in Arma.
Anyway, I don't thing there are any special play factors adapted to suit the competition player... a comp player will just use what he's given at a higher level because of many factors..
Better awareness
Quicker reflexes
Better control of weapon
Are just a few that will put a comp player above the average player.. we play with confidence and a purpose, your average player looks completely lost to us. The extreme slow movement tells me he's lacking all of the above. There isn't really anything you can change map wise, we adapt quicker to any circumstances.
#Support Comp Mode
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN4YhM6jUB2MxVj8i3b9rhw
The Great Outdoors theme as presented with the other 2 themes seemed to indicate that any size map had a chance to win, however if you impose a 4 minute limit it does in fact disqualify some because lets face it' They just would not meet the criteria.
This was imposed after the fact and was disappointing to some of us that's all.
Prove your map needs more than 4 minutes than maybe something can change?
Something the Devs will do to any submitted map anyway.. so go for it
#Support Comp Mode
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN4YhM6jUB2MxVj8i3b9rhw