Question(s) to M16 users

2

Comments

  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    edited May 2015
    The only place, where the M4 beats it is close range.
    in other words, 90% of the game. 100% if you actually plan to do the objective.
    -
    m16's should get their own maps, just like acogs.
    -
    mixing every type of weapon and scope into every single mode of every single map is a bland approach. no variance in representation. and makes for the same issues on every map.



  • 4DChessGenius4DChessGenius Posts: 2,161Player
    Give players the option of how they want their M16 to fire. Clicking the mouse once for all three shots (simulates the soldier holding the trigger for three shots) or the current system. Then we can end this thread once and for all.
    You joined the world's greatest army to become a graphic artist? Outstanding!
  • Dct.F|LeventeDct.F|Levente Posts: 624Beta Tester
    The only place, where the M4 beats it is close range.
    in other words, 90% of the game. 100% if you actually plan to do the objective.
    -
    m16's should get their own maps, just like acogs.
    -
    mixing every type of weapon and scope into every single mode of every single map is a bland approach. no variance in representation. and makes for the same issues on every map.

    Well, from a realism perspective, you are right. We can debate endlessly what is close range and what is not. All I know for sure is my performance is better with the M16 than the M4 in most situations. At least I feel like it. (Except when I'm really tired, then I have to grab back to the M4.)

    About all guns an all maps: yes, some variation would definitely be nice but I don't want to 'steal' the topic.
    Theory and reality are not that different. In theory.
  • super6-1super6-1 Posts: 100Player
    I used to be a die hard M16 shooter in AA3, and I could explain the little differences and take advantage of them since after so much time I could genuinely tell they weren't the same. I could effectively run single-shot cqb against good players as well as take advantage of the weapon at range. Trust me, I used to know the m16 intimately, but now, even if it's different, it's not better. Longer scope up time, same recoil and handling, same damage, pretty sure drop off is the same. Again, it's only there to be called a "DMR" so we don't have what PG used to be like with the full auto ACOG spammers. Rant aside, I think weapon handling on the whole should still be reworked. Yes, I am one of those.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    M16 in optin 2 was a beast!! Again I'm sure they can tell me the numbers didn't change and I will tell you after many hrs of use Sunday that the gun was shooting with very little recoil....compared to the M4 which I normally use the M16 was far easier to control.

    Late that night when I opted out, I tried the M16 and it was nothing like the opt in ..I went back to M4

    There is something more than just sounds making it "feel" like the gun handles differently..oh no.. it's not a feeling it's a fact !!
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  • SithHunterSithHunter Posts: 109Player
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    M16 in optin 2 was a beast!! Again I'm sure they can tell me the numbers didn't change and I will tell you after many hrs of use Sunday that the gun was shooting with very little recoil....compared to the M4 which I normally use the M16 was far easier to control.

    Late that night when I opted out, I tried the M16 and it was nothing like the opt in ..I went back to M4

    There is something more than just sounds making it "feel" like the gun handles differently..oh no.. it's not a feeling it's a fact !!
    I believe it's the recoil animation that got changed rather than numerical recoil per se, and indeed, what you say makes sense.
  • -vortex-vortex Posts: 188Player
    =IK=Doba= wrote: »
    M16 in optin 2 was a beast!! Again I'm sure they can tell me the numbers didn't change and I will tell you after many hrs of use Sunday that the gun was shooting with very little recoil....compared to the M4 which I normally use the M16 was far easier to control.

    Late that night when I opted out, I tried the M16 and it was nothing like the opt in ..I went back to M4

    There is something more than just sounds making it "feel" like the gun handles differently..oh no.. it's not a feeling it's a fact !!

    As someone who uses the m16 quite a lot, I felt like the opt-in had a much faster rate of fire and less recoil. Maybe it was just me but it seemed like it was buffed up and now out guns the m4 even at close range (provided similar ping, connection, etc.)
    TheTots wrote:
    I think this thread has run it's course......
  • Gronfather@TwitchGronfather@Twitch Posts: 466Player
    Okay, because I literally have no experience with weapons. For anyone who's fired an actual M16 please answer this question for me. While the weapon is on 'burst' what happens when you squeeze the trigger once?

  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    Three bullets come out very fast..not as slow as the game..at least that's what I was told when we had this discussion in game .. and you cannot click fast to have 1 or 2 bullets come out like in game
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  • Gronfather@TwitchGronfather@Twitch Posts: 466Player
    Okay so when the trigger is pulled ONCE on the weapon while its on burst three bullets come out.

    So my left click simulates pulling the 'e-trigger.' Why do I have to do anything other than a single click to get those three bullets. Like squeezing the empty toothpaste sometimes ughh

  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    edited May 2015
    I have no experience in firing anything other than a .22 air rifle at empty cans of soda in a friends back yard years and years ago :lol:
    SMK_B2_Air_Rifle_4bb8cd87db48a.jpg
    It sucked.

    This game (amongst others) learns me what a proper gun looks like and how they may act, but that's a good question.. what does a M16 do?
    I assume since they tried to emulate real life weapon action (using a mouse) , you have to pull the trigger and hold for 3 a round burst, what I'm not sure of is what happens if you just give it a quick squeeze.
    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • I don't know about the others but I feel like the bullets register much better... I can shoot full auto in the guys chest up close and not kill him but I can do 2 bursts or worst case 3 and kill him every time
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    Okay, because I literally have no experience with weapons. For anyone who's fired an actual M16 please answer this question for me. While the weapon is on 'burst' what happens when you squeeze the trigger once?

    A Dev answered this somewhere in the forum's previous incarnation, I believe.

    My recollection:
    A single trigger pull could potentially only fire one or two bullets if it was released quickly enough. A subsequent pull would fire the remaining number to get up to three.

    The in-game rate of fire is 700 rounds per minute. Real-world values are quoted at 700-950 rpm.


    I think the biggest questions floating around were:
    1) whether a 2-shot "burst" would be followed by only a 1-shot "burst" IRL. This depends on whether the cam controlling the mechanism resets on trigger release or only after 3 shots have been fired. I think the consensus was that, for the M16, the cam resets after 3 shots.
    2) how easy is it to fire a partial burst (ie, would a single trigger pull ever be only a few shots IRL). I can't really give you an answer there.


    The current in-game system, IMO, is a reasonably faithful recreation of the real-world workings. Adding in the system for "partial" bursts would potentially end up feeling more like a bug than a feature when somebody tries to burst and only gets a single bullet every now and then so I think that's a reasonable omission.

    There's been clamoring for a "single-click, three shots" option that would be more in line with the way burst-fire tends to work in other games (or even in previous AA iterations). Personally, I think I could get used to it either way.
  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    edited May 2015
    the difference is between mouse vs weapon trigger.... tap vs squeeze... it is natural to quickly tap a mouse button and release without holding it. tap tap tap.... an m16 trigger is the opposite. when you fire the weapon you squeeze the trigger. you can't just tap it... sigh. if you want to fire just one bullet then you change the fire mode... you also squeeze for single shot. but for burst, you squeeze burst, not tap. think suppression obviously... no "tapping".


  • (Beer_Me)E@sy(Beer_Me)E@sy Posts: 6Player
    edited May 2015
    Having spent a great deal of time firing M16s in 3 round burst, the way AAPG has it now is just wrong. In 3 round burst, 1 trigger pull fires three rounds. You can't stop short of 3 rounds and only fire 1 or 2 based on length of time the trigger is pulled. That means nothing on a real gun. If you continue to hold the trigger down, nothing more happens after the third round is fired, and subsequently, trying to release the trigger quickly still results in 3 round being fired. The ability to fire 1 or 2 shots in game while on 3 round burst is simply inaccurate. All of this is assuming the Army hasn't changed the way an M16 operates since 2003 when I got out, and I don't think they have.
  • SacchoSaccho Posts: 1,577Player
    Found the citation -- this is US Army FM 3-22.9, 4.3.c:
    c. Burst Fire Mode (M16A2/A4 Rifle, M4 Carbine). When the selector lever is set on the BURST position (Figure 4-12), the rifle fires a three-round burst if the trigger is held to the rear during the complete cycle. The weapon continues to fire three-round bursts with each separate trigger pull as long as ammunition is in the magazine. Releasing the trigger or exhausting ammunition at any point in the three-round cycle interrupts fire, producing one or two shots. Reapplying the trigger only completes the interrupted cycle; it does not begin a new one. This is not a malfunction. The M16A2/4 and M4 disconnectors have a three-cam mechanism that continuously rotates with each firing cycle. Based on the position of the disconnector cam, the first trigger pull (after initial selection of the BURST position) can produce one, two, or three firing cycles before the trigger must be pulled again. The burst cam rotates until it reaches the stop notch.

    Regarding the questions of squeeze vs tap and real-world feel -- I can only defer to your guys' experience on those points.
  • Kilroy_0Kilroy_0 Posts: 43Player
    I use the M16 in rifleman role 90% of the time, mostly on semi-auto, for more control and accuracy - if I use burst, I usually hold throughout the whole burst... should I also add that I rock it on a laptop touch-pad? :D
  • Gronfather@TwitchGronfather@Twitch Posts: 466Player
    So after speaking to one of our members (former military) the ability to pull the trigger 'half-way' for lack of better words and only fire 1-2 rounds is possible. Still think AA2 did it the best but that's just my opinion.

  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    edited May 2015
    So after speaking to one of our members (former military) the ability to pull the trigger 'half-way' for lack of better words and only fire 1-2 rounds is possible. Still think AA2 did it the best but that's just my opinion.
    Yah its not about realism it's about what works better for game play overall and thats 1 click 3 shot burst IMO.

    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • Gronfather@TwitchGronfather@Twitch Posts: 466Player
    Exactly, and till then my M16 usage is camping construction with my acog on outerhospital.

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