Shooting through walls

[ENG]Uni-Sol

Lately I seen a lot of players standing face up against walls so the barrel of their gun pops through a mesh/BSP and shooting/prefiring, depending on situations such as enemy spotting, its like a wall hak. I gotta say.. its really awesome to get killed by a gun barrel popping through a wall. (Yes I'm mad bro)

This is surely not intended game design and was just wondering if anything can be done about it? lots of people complain about the bushes, spotting mechanic and things relating to supported firing, but not this? does anyone else feel its an issue?

-pR|Arkeiro

Plus sometimes when you die close to a wall, per example lounge north stairs wall, and if you get revived you stand up on the north stairs. Another thing, if you lay down and stand up constantly at the lower gallery wall towards west choke you can see for a decent time the west wing information. Hopefully you can fix this.

SSKnecabo

That wall glitching thing works on almost every wall on inner and there are quite a few examples for other maps as well. Also works with climbing up things like the bed in front of darkroom.

[ENG]Uni-Sol

I worry some players see it in the same light as spam nades.. In that if you know (or have an idea) that a player is going to be at somewhere at a certain point in time, then there's nothing wrong with doing it. Assuming its NOT by design, its an exploit and needs fixing, if that’s possible.

its bad enough seeing people run up and prone into a wall to see through it.. This is a whole different ball game. Not only do you gotta watch for actual players, you gotta watch the walls don't have something popping through them.

You start staring at walls for too long, your going to be getting people thinking your playing with red boxes. You get banned.. you call someone a Badmin for it..

All possible due to that one issue.

Duke_Audi

As I (and others) have stated in numerous threads, in a perfect world, there would be no shadows, barrels or body parts visible thru walls. However, it is our understanding that we’ll have to live with it.
To be fair, it’s perfectly acceptable to shot thru thin plywood, plaster or similar penetrable materials. Once you’ve learned a map you can predict where the NME will be and which areas you can hit thru what objects.
I have posted these photos from Opt-In 3 before but as nobody has made a comment on them I’ll repost them here.



Although you might think this player was looking thru the wall in fact from his point of view it looked something like this.

[ENG]Uni-Sol

Pawn clipping has been talked about, even on the old forum.. I remember a dev saying there was little they could do about things like feet sticking through metal walls, (or same as your SS).

What I don't understand is how people can shoot through a wall when the bullets are not supposed to originate from the barrel that’s sticking through.. but rather from between the players eyes. Yet the bullets fire and can hit you.. even though you can't see a head.

I wish I had some footage of what I mean.

Duke_Audi wrote: »

To be fair, it’s perfectly acceptable to shot thru thin plywood, plaster or similar penetrable materials.

I agree.. That’s a skill or a person knowing what they are doing and playing in the within realms of normality. What I'm talking about is none of those things.. its an exploit.

SSKnecabo

So you're claiming that you can for example shoot the bulletproof glass of surgery if you get close enough to stick your weapon through?

[ENG]Uni-Sol

I'm not sure about shooting 'out' from the bulletproof glass, That would need testing and I've not seen anyone doing it from them in particular, only walls.. but I do know you can shoot and kill someone who is stood right up against that glass.. by shooting the weapon/hand sticking through, just like you can with any extremities popping through anything.

Kinda not bulletproof at all in that instance

I've seen people shoot through the glass in up and over without breaking or even cracking the glass, so maybe its possible on the bulletproof stuff.

SSKnecabo

Then I don't understand your posts with sentences like these:
-"I gotta say.. its really awesome to get killed by a gun barrel popping through a wall."
-"What I don't understand is how people can shoot through a wall when the bullets are not supposed to originate from the barrel that’s sticking through.. but rather from between the players eyes."

Really sounded like you are describing that. Yes, you can shoot body parts sticking through walls, you can't shoot people by sticking your gun through walls though. Since I doubt this can/will be fixed in near future my advise would be to not camp in corners and generally keep a little distance to walls especially when crouched.

[ENG]Uni-Sol

You can't understand because maybe you aint seen it happen

I'll give you 3 examples of where I seen this happen explaining best I can from 'MY' perspective.

1 - I rush to dark with a teamate who runs through Surgery (I take Surgery Hall route).. I throw my nade behind dark and an enemy is in there, I'm not prepped as I just threw a nade.. So I instantly report the guy.. Take a few hits, run away behind the first medical bed.. I observe my teammate who is 'INSIDE' surgery sticking his gun through the surgery wall, killing the guy in Dark room I reported.

2 - Another day, another server.. I go west with a teammate, we run directly to west prefiring my shotgun in west choke, kill a guy who was cooking a frag, report another who is behind the wall leaning out.. I'm backing up and run behind the wall now observing my teammate face up to the wall.. shoot the guy dead.. The guy I just reported.. through the west wall. (it happens so fast text don't explain it well) The shot up guy starts calling hax, and that he got shot by a gun sticking through wall.

3 - My own demise!.. I'm on the medical bed outside dark crouched (surgery side) ADS.. observing right side of dark waiting for a guy who I know is behind the chairs (as I ran from there) to pop his head around, looking for me in dark, I see a gun stick through the dark room wall, from what I can only assume is from behind them chairs.. The thing is firing muzzleflashing on my side of the wall.. shoots me in the head.

I rage quit.. and I NEVER rage quit.

My apologies if I'm being confusing, I kinda hoped more people knew about the issue and caught my drift.

P.S I don't camp, I'm for the most part.. a Shotgun Rambo, who plays entirely too much Inner Hospital

PPS. 600 Posts, Where's my cake?

K!Dz.applePIE

I never witnessed this uni-sol... But I witnessed what necabo described many many times.

[ENG]Uni-Sol

It can't just be me One of the above times even happened in your server (you were not on at the time)

M14 bullet to the head from a barrel sticking through wall.. No bs. I just have no proof only my word

SSKnecabo

M14 can penetrate some walls, for example the darkroom wall, that might be the reason.

Keebler750

Something tells tells me Uni is right about this. I recall when building maps, I could be inside a rock or tree and shoot the INSIDE surface. If I moved forward a bit, I could shoot OUTSIDE...

I agree this is a big deal that should be looked at.

Uni, are you on my Steam? I think so...?

[ENG]Uni-Sol

Hospital walls aint wood.. from my first example the dude killed the enemy with a M4 full auto.. through the surgery wall, I watched it happen from behind my hospital bed

Is it possible a head can be slightly through the wall somehow? or there is a certain point in which the bullet fired is fired from the 'outside' of a mesh when on the inside?..I don't know. I might have to go check hospital in the editor and see just how thick them walls are, what damage they allow through and try and find out how this happens myself, I have a feeling its a part clipping part BSP problem.

I have a funky .bat file that launches a client server for testing maps outside of the editor in a proper game environment.. I shall set up some players and see just whats going on and why.. I'll get to the bottom of it!

I'm just about to upgrade my whole rig Keebler, been fetch the stuff this morning.. I'll check when I get her up and running

-[iG]-Leketiskis

Have not seen kill from the guy outside bullet proof glass or guy behind unshot-able wall, unless that wall is is not concrete and can be shoted throw. however killing the guy that stand close to the wall or glass is often, example from my old video (episode of bullet proof kill - 2:10):

=IK=Doba=

LoL @2:10 .. haven't they said this sticking through walls in an engine issue.. I think the solution was to thicken walls.. sounds like a solution to me that's not on the list atm.

Dem@n

players using fast crawl bug exploit can shoot through thick walls,metal,anything they stand next to while their vision is on the same level as they were standing,so i hear.There are some video examples i could link but not allowed due to naming and shaming reasons.

=U^S=_Mason

-ptranger.Arkeiro.ek- wrote: »

Plus sometimes when you die close to a wall, per example lounge north stairs wall, and if you get revived you stand up on the north stairs. Another thing, if you lay down and stand up constantly at the lower gallery wall towards west choke you can see for a decent time the west wing information. Hopefully you can fix this.

Did you enter this into the Bug Portal?

TheTots

=U^S=_Mason wrote: »

-ptranger.Arkeiro.ek- wrote: »

Plus sometimes when you die close to a wall, per example lounge north stairs wall, and if you get revived you stand up on the north stairs. Another thing, if you lay down and stand up constantly at the lower gallery wall towards west choke you can see for a decent time the west wing information. Hopefully you can fix this.

Did you enter this into the Bug Portal?

I remember seeing this come through jira. I believe we've addressed most (if not all) of the revive through wall locations, as well as the revive in another place locations.


Try the opt in, if you see some still going, let us know!

Dem@n

=U^S=_Mason wrote: »

-ptranger.Arkeiro.ek- wrote: »

Plus sometimes when you die close to a wall, per example lounge north stairs wall, and if you get revived you stand up on the north stairs. Another thing, if you lay down and stand up constantly at the lower gallery wall towards west choke you can see for a decent time the west wing information. Hopefully you can fix this.

Did you enter this into the Bug Portal?

Red Line, storage,standing on top the highest box on the other side of the wall to the metal platform where you can jump down from control room.Guess it's more of a game engine problem than wall thickness,as you climb on top of objects or you stand up from prone position facing a wall you can see through it for a short moment.

Also another annoying thing is while getting revived during the revival process you can spectate/ ghost from your corps to tell your reviver if the situation is clear for him to do it or break up the revive process.So starting the revive process and breaking it up midway multiple times gives the dead person the chance to spectate from his view for a limited time.Not sure it works as intended.