M24- what do you think about it?

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Comments

  • =IK=SgtBadazz=IK=SgtBadazz Posts: 160Player
    edited May 2015
    They can do whatever they want with the hold breath as far as I'm concerned, I don't use it. B) I find that it is much more effective to scope in, drag shot your target, scope out so that you can see what is going on, and move to a new lane. A stationary, scoped in, breath holding sniper, is a soon to be dead sniper in my opinion.
  • Yato^Yato^ Posts: 103Player
    SithHunter wrote: »


    SithHunter wrote: »

    It's not only about what you are saying here: since it's open beta, we also discuss what type of gameplay we would like to see. For some people quick-lean shots where it takes less than 0,5 sec to aim are to easy to pull off with current sway and they would like to see that changed. For some people it's just the meta-game that you have to adjust to. Maybe I'm naive but I want to believe that if we had such discussion, let's say a year after release it wouldn't be about 'What changes M24 needs' but ' what tactics you use to counter M24'.


    Leaning and shooting someone can be done with all weapons, yes they all need a headshot to insta kill you apart from the m24 and shotgun but that brings me back to the point I mentioned earlier of people not knowing how to peek a corner properly, if done right (the only way it should be done) you will only expose the top of your head and in worst case a bit of your shoulder. If the optics makes it easier for the m24 because it's at a longer distance it's once again your fault taking a duel you almost always will lose.

    You took the least important part of my post, decided to bash it when I didn't even say if that was OP or not- it was just an example of what people can disagree on. Please read my post once again, because I have a feeling you haven't understood it at all.

    I pointed out why your point of what some people want changed is invalid since it doesn't apply exclusively to the m24. In other words it's not a question of what to change with the m24 but rather restrict player movement and punish the players pushing for ground instead. Either way it would result in a slower paced gameplay. Something that not only lowers the skill ceiling but also lowers the cap for it.
  • SithHunterSithHunter Posts: 109Player
    SithHunter wrote: »


    SithHunter wrote: »

    It's not only about what you are saying here: since it's open beta, we also discuss what type of gameplay we would like to see. For some people quick-lean shots where it takes less than 0,5 sec to aim are to easy to pull off with current sway and they would like to see that changed. For some people it's just the meta-game that you have to adjust to. Maybe I'm naive but I want to believe that if we had such discussion, let's say a year after release it wouldn't be about 'What changes M24 needs' but ' what tactics you use to counter M24'.


    Leaning and shooting someone can be done with all weapons, yes they all need a headshot to insta kill you apart from the m24 and shotgun but that brings me back to the point I mentioned earlier of people not knowing how to peek a corner properly, if done right (the only way it should be done) you will only expose the top of your head and in worst case a bit of your shoulder. If the optics makes it easier for the m24 because it's at a longer distance it's once again your fault taking a duel you almost always will lose.

    You took the least important part of my post, decided to bash it when I didn't even say if that was OP or not- it was just an example of what people can disagree on. Please read my post once again, because I have a feeling you haven't understood it at all.

    I pointed out why your point of what some people want changed is invalid since it doesn't apply exclusively to the m24. In other words it's not a question of what to change with the m24 but rather restrict player movement and punish the players pushing for ground instead. Either way it would result in a slower paced gameplay. Something that not only lowers the skill ceiling but also lowers the cap for it.
    I edited my post. I think you can't miss the meaning now

  • Yato^Yato^ Posts: 103Player
    SithHunter wrote: »
    SithHunter wrote: »


    SithHunter wrote: »

    It's not only about what you are saying here: since it's open beta, we also discuss what type of gameplay we would like to see. For some people quick-lean shots where it takes less than 0,5 sec to aim are to easy to pull off with current sway and they would like to see that changed. For some people it's just the meta-game that you have to adjust to. Maybe I'm naive but I want to believe that if we had such discussion, let's say a year after release it wouldn't be about 'What changes M24 needs' but ' what tactics you use to counter M24'.


    Leaning and shooting someone can be done with all weapons, yes they all need a headshot to insta kill you apart from the m24 and shotgun but that brings me back to the point I mentioned earlier of people not knowing how to peek a corner properly, if done right (the only way it should be done) you will only expose the top of your head and in worst case a bit of your shoulder. If the optics makes it easier for the m24 because it's at a longer distance it's once again your fault taking a duel you almost always will lose.

    You took the least important part of my post, decided to bash it when I didn't even say if that was OP or not- it was just an example of what people can disagree on. Please read my post once again, because I have a feeling you haven't understood it at all.

    I pointed out why your point of what some people want changed is invalid since it doesn't apply exclusively to the m24. In other words it's not a question of what to change with the m24 but rather restrict player movement and punish the players pushing for ground instead. Either way it would result in a slower paced gameplay. Something that not only lowers the skill ceiling but also lowers the cap for it.
    I edited my post. I think you can't miss the meaning now

    Your edit doesn't make the point any more valid. The people who excel at wrecking with the m24 would wreck them even faster with the m4. Thats just the harsh reality of it. When they point out "oh that really bad player killed me with that really OP weapon m24" they dont see it from the bad m24 users point of view, they just dropped down dead out of nowhere.

    At the same time, that really poor m24 users team is spectating him and watching how he struggles to kill this one guy slow crouching across the middle of the map and missing shot after shot untill he almost accidentally gets a kill.

    Just because someone new can get a kill with a weapon while staying at a safe distance it doesnt mean that it's too easy or too OP. You could make the same argument for grenades being overpowered because you don't even need to see the enemy to kill them. People even sometimes kills 5 players with 1 grenade without laying eyes on them, even new players have this happen. That doesn't mean the grenade is overpowered. We don't need to change the way it works. The other team need to keep them in mind when moving around and keep a healty distance between team mates to ensure that they all dont get blasted to bits by one chump.
  • Hey.I.Have.A.GunHey.I.Have.A.Gun Posts: 643Player
    SithHunter wrote: »
    SithHunter wrote: »


    SithHunter wrote: »

    It's not only about what you are saying here: since it's open beta, we also discuss what type of gameplay we would like to see. For some people quick-lean shots where it takes less than 0,5 sec to aim are to easy to pull off with current sway and they would like to see that changed. For some people it's just the meta-game that you have to adjust to. Maybe I'm naive but I want to believe that if we had such discussion, let's say a year after release it wouldn't be about 'What changes M24 needs' but ' what tactics you use to counter M24'.


    Leaning and shooting someone can be done with all weapons, yes they all need a headshot to insta kill you apart from the m24 and shotgun but that brings me back to the point I mentioned earlier of people not knowing how to peek a corner properly, if done right (the only way it should be done) you will only expose the top of your head and in worst case a bit of your shoulder. If the optics makes it easier for the m24 because it's at a longer distance it's once again your fault taking a duel you almost always will lose.

    You took the least important part of my post, decided to bash it when I didn't even say if that was OP or not- it was just an example of what people can disagree on. Please read my post once again, because I have a feeling you haven't understood it at all.

    I pointed out why your point of what some people want changed is invalid since it doesn't apply exclusively to the m24. In other words it's not a question of what to change with the m24 but rather restrict player movement and punish the players pushing for ground instead. Either way it would result in a slower paced gameplay. Something that not only lowers the skill ceiling but also lowers the cap for it.
    I edited my post. I think you can't miss the meaning now

    Your edit doesn't make the point any more valid. The people who excel at wrecking with the m24 would wreck them even faster with the m4. Thats just the harsh reality of it. When they point out "oh that really bad player killed me with that really OP weapon m24" they dont see it from the bad m24 users point of view, they just dropped down dead out of nowhere.

    At the same time, that really poor m24 users team is spectating him and watching how he struggles to kill this one guy slow crouching across the middle of the map and missing shot after shot untill he almost accidentally gets a kill.

    Just because someone new can get a kill with a weapon while staying at a safe distance it doesnt mean that it's too easy or too OP. You could make the same argument for grenades being overpowered because you don't even need to see the enemy to kill them. People even sometimes kills 5 players with 1 grenade without laying eyes on them, even new players have this happen. That doesn't mean the grenade is overpowered. We don't need to change the way it works. The other team need to keep them in mind when moving around and keep a healty distance between team mates to ensure that they all dont get blasted to bits by one chump.

    Apples and oranges. Grenades are OP, M24 isn't.
  • Yato^Yato^ Posts: 103Player
    SithHunter wrote: »
    SithHunter wrote: »


    SithHunter wrote: »

    It's not only about what you are saying here: since it's open beta, we also discuss what type of gameplay we would like to see. For some people quick-lean shots where it takes less than 0,5 sec to aim are to easy to pull off with current sway and they would like to see that changed. For some people it's just the meta-game that you have to adjust to. Maybe I'm naive but I want to believe that if we had such discussion, let's say a year after release it wouldn't be about 'What changes M24 needs' but ' what tactics you use to counter M24'.


    Leaning and shooting someone can be done with all weapons, yes they all need a headshot to insta kill you apart from the m24 and shotgun but that brings me back to the point I mentioned earlier of people not knowing how to peek a corner properly, if done right (the only way it should be done) you will only expose the top of your head and in worst case a bit of your shoulder. If the optics makes it easier for the m24 because it's at a longer distance it's once again your fault taking a duel you almost always will lose.

    You took the least important part of my post, decided to bash it when I didn't even say if that was OP or not- it was just an example of what people can disagree on. Please read my post once again, because I have a feeling you haven't understood it at all.

    I pointed out why your point of what some people want changed is invalid since it doesn't apply exclusively to the m24. In other words it's not a question of what to change with the m24 but rather restrict player movement and punish the players pushing for ground instead. Either way it would result in a slower paced gameplay. Something that not only lowers the skill ceiling but also lowers the cap for it.
    I edited my post. I think you can't miss the meaning now

    Your edit doesn't make the point any more valid. The people who excel at wrecking with the m24 would wreck them even faster with the m4. Thats just the harsh reality of it. When they point out "oh that really bad player killed me with that really OP weapon m24" they dont see it from the bad m24 users point of view, they just dropped down dead out of nowhere.

    At the same time, that really poor m24 users team is spectating him and watching how he struggles to kill this one guy slow crouching across the middle of the map and missing shot after shot untill he almost accidentally gets a kill.

    Just because someone new can get a kill with a weapon while staying at a safe distance it doesnt mean that it's too easy or too OP. You could make the same argument for grenades being overpowered because you don't even need to see the enemy to kill them. People even sometimes kills 5 players with 1 grenade without laying eyes on them, even new players have this happen. That doesn't mean the grenade is overpowered. We don't need to change the way it works. The other team need to keep them in mind when moving around and keep a healty distance between team mates to ensure that they all dont get blasted to bits by one chump.

    Apples and oranges. Grenades are OP, M24 isn't.

    Grenades discourage passive play and sitting in corners waiting for the timer to run out. It gives you an incentive to move around and take initiative. I don't see how that's a bad thing. The reason for better players not crawling into corners with a 1 way out is because it's like crawling into an empty well. When a grenade comes in you have nowhere to go. The amount of grenades available to for each team could potentially be limited on FLO maps or the maps themselves could be bigger with more possible ways to play the map.

    On Innerhospital and downtown you are so very limited when it comes to locations, with 24 frags it will feel like they're OP but it's really just a flaw in the design of the map. You'll see and I did see the same issue on FLO_intercept. But I have never ever felt cheated when I die from a nade on a maps like slums, coldfront, redline or Hospital.
  • SithHunterSithHunter Posts: 109Player
    edited May 2015
    SithHunter wrote: »
    SithHunter wrote: »


    SithHunter wrote: »

    It's not only about what you are saying here: since it's open beta, we also discuss what type of gameplay we would like to see. For some people quick-lean shots where it takes less than 0,5 sec to aim are to easy to pull off with current sway and they would like to see that changed. For some people it's just the meta-game that you have to adjust to. Maybe I'm naive but I want to believe that if we had such discussion, let's say a year after release it wouldn't be about 'What changes M24 needs' but ' what tactics you use to counter M24'.


    Leaning and shooting someone can be done with all weapons, yes they all need a headshot to insta kill you apart from the m24 and shotgun but that brings me back to the point I mentioned earlier of people not knowing how to peek a corner properly, if done right (the only way it should be done) you will only expose the top of your head and in worst case a bit of your shoulder. If the optics makes it easier for the m24 because it's at a longer distance it's once again your fault taking a duel you almost always will lose.

    You took the least important part of my post, decided to bash it when I didn't even say if that was OP or not- it was just an example of what people can disagree on. Please read my post once again, because I have a feeling you haven't understood it at all.

    I pointed out why your point of what some people want changed is invalid since it doesn't apply exclusively to the m24. In other words it's not a question of what to change with the m24 but rather restrict player movement and punish the players pushing for ground instead. Either way it would result in a slower paced gameplay. Something that not only lowers the skill ceiling but also lowers the cap for it.
    I edited my post. I think you can't miss the meaning now

    Your edit doesn't make the point any more valid. The people who excel at wrecking with the m24 would wreck them even faster with the m4. Thats just the harsh reality of it. When they point out "oh that really bad player killed me with that really OP weapon m24" they dont see it from the bad m24 users point of view, they just dropped down dead out of nowhere.

    At the same time, that really poor m24 users team is spectating him and watching how he struggles to kill this one guy slow crouching across the middle of the map and missing shot after shot untill he almost accidentally gets a kill.

    Just because someone new can get a kill with a weapon while staying at a safe distance it doesnt mean that it's too easy or too OP. You could make the same argument for grenades being overpowered because you don't even need to see the enemy to kill them. People even sometimes kills 5 players with 1 grenade without laying eyes on them, even new players have this happen. That doesn't mean the grenade is overpowered. We don't need to change the way it works. The other team need to keep them in mind when moving around and keep a healty distance between team mates to ensure that they all dont get blasted to bits by one chump.

    Do you even know what point I'm making in that post? Because it doesn't seem so.

    So, I will try explain it once again. I'm not talking about M24 from a perspective "Oh, I got killed by M24, nerf it to the ground plz!". No, simply no. I know how to deal with it, heck if I'm in a mood I sometimes take my chances to fight it on distance using M16 with M68, because it's hard, challenging and fun and I don't lose anything on pub because it's pub so I can do stupid [TOS Violation] just for practice of my aim, whatever.

    What I'm saying in this thread is:

    1. Game is in Open Beta.
    2. Open Beta is time for testing and changing stuff.
    3. Open Beta time is running out.
    4. Ergo from 1-3 we get that it's pretty much last moment that suits discussion I'm trying to do.
    5. Discussion here is about what if we changed M24 in some way and see how the gameplay changes.
    6. No, we are not doing this because we can't adapt to certain gamestyle but because it's Open Beta and in Open Beta you discuss what stuff that can be changed in game.
    7. You do not contribute to discussion by saying "You will get rekt anyways so why you care".
    8. I propose changes to M24 to make it a bit more similar to the one in AA2 because it's characteristics made it fun to play with and play against, no matter if you lost or won.
    9. From my perspective shifting weapon characteristics a bit towards AA2 is good because for example M16 works in a very similar way to the one from AA2 and is fun to shoot with.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,607Beta Tester
    What is the purpose of the M24?
    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    What is the purpose of the M24?

    To fire at heads from a safe distance, ideally :)

    Think it does that job pretty darn well myself.

    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,607Beta Tester
    Er, no. That's like saying a gun's purpose is to fire projectiles. While true, I was kinda hoping for a more philosophical approach to the question. :lol:
    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • Gronfather@twitchGronfather@twitch Posts: 466Player
    I'd like to see it used differently in CQC tbh. A sniper sliding a corner then quick scoping me in a stairwell is a little un realistic. But then again this is a game :neutral:

  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,607Beta Tester
    Look at the entire game holistically. Do we agree with Roles? ...or do we want all players equal with just different 1st person gun images in their hands?

    If we want Roles, the question becomes "what is the goal?"

    If we really would like to see teamwork and various strengths and weaknesses for each Role to support the team, then it comes down to "How do we achieve our goal?" (Incidentally, this is what is called Goal Oriented Thinking....;p)

    I don't think any of us want the M24 to become the Lucky Slot that you manage to get and suddenly you have a super-powered M4 that you can run around with and annihilate your opponents.

    Some say, "Arma already exists."

    So does COD!

    So, again, I'm not kidding. What ROLE do we want for the M24? Do we want Army missions with sniper support or is this just a fun game in which everyone runs around and racks up kills?

    I like the idea of AAPG being unique among FPS games. As I've said elsewhere, don't make your 'feedback' about what you don't like, but what you want to see!
    ______

    This has been a test of the emergency flame-fest system. Please do not adjust your set.
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 3,193Player
    edited May 2015
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    Er, no. That's like saying a gun's purpose is to fire projectiles. While true, I was kinda hoping for a more philosophical approach to the question. :lol:

    In that case, it's actual purpose is to give 'long range' support for your team and provide overwatch. Reporting enemy activity to team members and engaging when possible.
    It should be common to see the person holding the M24 camping a spot, covering his teammates, reporting enemy locations while neutralizing threats.

    We could chat all day about how it's more than that in AAPG, because it is, because what we have here is a game and people will use it in the context of games and make the most out of its mechanics within the games limitations/or lack of put upon it, rather than how it's supposed or rather meant to be used.

    If my trollery drives you crazy, you'd better put on your seatbelt.






  • SOPMODSOPMOD Posts: 230Player
    edited May 2015
    I'd like to see the M24 return to more of a mission support role, rather than a stacking kills role.

    Covering an open area from high ground, covering an horizon to slow down the enemy's advance or covering windows in a buidling to help your team's advance, rather than being able to peak corners inside a buidling.

    But it's impossible for AAPG's gameplay and maps. I believe to achieve a sniper support role the game would need to change drastically in order for it to work.
    ---
    How i'd like to see the M24 change in the current AAPG is: slowing down scoping up and the bolt action cycle.

    It would make handling the M24 at close range or inside a building a bit harder and change the player using it into a somewhat more believable sniper.
  • Gronfather@twitchGronfather@twitch Posts: 466Player
    Best setup for the sniper in this game is downtown (IMO). Great to move up (assault) and have your sniper providing overwatch from that perch at spawn.

  • Yato^Yato^ Posts: 103Player
    SithHunter wrote: »
    SithHunter wrote: »
    SithHunter wrote: »


    SithHunter wrote: »

    It's not only about what you are saying here: since it's open beta, we also discuss what type of gameplay we would like to see. For some people quick-lean shots where it takes less than 0,5 sec to aim are to easy to pull off with current sway and they would like to see that changed. For some people it's just the meta-game that you have to adjust to. Maybe I'm naive but I want to believe that if we had such discussion, let's say a year after release it wouldn't be about 'What changes M24 needs' but ' what tactics you use to counter M24'.


    Leaning and shooting someone can be done with all weapons, yes they all need a headshot to insta kill you apart from the m24 and shotgun but that brings me back to the point I mentioned earlier of people not knowing how to peek a corner properly, if done right (the only way it should be done) you will only expose the top of your head and in worst case a bit of your shoulder. If the optics makes it easier for the m24 because it's at a longer distance it's once again your fault taking a duel you almost always will lose.

    You took the least important part of my post, decided to bash it when I didn't even say if that was OP or not- it was just an example of what people can disagree on. Please read my post once again, because I have a feeling you haven't understood it at all.

    I pointed out why your point of what some people want changed is invalid since it doesn't apply exclusively to the m24. In other words it's not a question of what to change with the m24 but rather restrict player movement and punish the players pushing for ground instead. Either way it would result in a slower paced gameplay. Something that not only lowers the skill ceiling but also lowers the cap for it.
    I edited my post. I think you can't miss the meaning now

    Your edit doesn't make the point any more valid. The people who excel at wrecking with the m24 would wreck them even faster with the m4. Thats just the harsh reality of it. When they point out "oh that really bad player killed me with that really OP weapon m24" they dont see it from the bad m24 users point of view, they just dropped down dead out of nowhere.

    At the same time, that really poor m24 users team is spectating him and watching how he struggles to kill this one guy slow crouching across the middle of the map and missing shot after shot untill he almost accidentally gets a kill.

    Just because someone new can get a kill with a weapon while staying at a safe distance it doesnt mean that it's too easy or too OP. You could make the same argument for grenades being overpowered because you don't even need to see the enemy to kill them. People even sometimes kills 5 players with 1 grenade without laying eyes on them, even new players have this happen. That doesn't mean the grenade is overpowered. We don't need to change the way it works. The other team need to keep them in mind when moving around and keep a healty distance between team mates to ensure that they all dont get blasted to bits by one chump.

    Do you even know what point I'm making in that post? Because it doesn't seem so.

    So, I will try explain it once again. I'm not talking about M24 from a perspective "Oh, I got killed by M24, nerf it to the ground plz!". No, simply no. I know how to deal with it, heck if I'm in a mood I sometimes take my chances to fight it on distance using M16 with M68, because it's hard, challenging and fun and I don't lose anything on pub because it's pub so I can do stupid [TOS Violation] just for practice of my aim, whatever.

    What I'm saying in this thread is:

    1. Game is in Open Beta.
    2. Open Beta is time for testing and changing stuff.
    3. Open Beta time is running out.
    4. Ergo from 1-3 we get that it's pretty much last moment that suits discussion I'm trying to do.
    5. Discussion here is about what if we changed M24 in some way and see how the gameplay changes.
    6. No, we are not doing this because we can't adapt to certain gamestyle but because it's Open Beta and in Open Beta you discuss what stuff that can be changed in game.
    7. You do not contribute to discussion by saying "You will get rekt anyways so why you care".
    8. I propose changes to M24 to make it a bit more similar to the one in AA2 because it's characteristics made it fun to play with and play against, no matter if you lost or won.
    9. From my perspective shifting weapon characteristics a bit towards AA2 is good because for example M16 works in a very similar way to the one from AA2 and is fun to shoot with.

    I see, you're upset because you think I attacked your points as invalid reasoning to tamper with the mechanics of the m24. I never did do that actually, I just attacked the points you claimed other people made. Leaving whateer you said intact as valid points. My entire post could be simplified by "thats wrong". Just saying someones wrong isn't a way to carry an argument or to bring up a valid point for it being true, it's just you uttering your opinion on something and in the end of the day your opinions are worthless because they don't change the way the world are but only how you percieve it as an individual.
  • ProceduralPolyMathProceduralPolyMath Posts: 96Player
    edited May 2015
    I play M24 whenver I can. It's very easy to quick scope with it. Of course if I'm playing in US server and I rely in quickscopes, it fails.
    That said, the weapon cycle is quite crippling. Specially if you shoot and immediately swap weapons or go up a ladder and then want to shoot right away when switching back to it. You'll be cycling that thing instead of shooting.

    I would give it a initial ADS violent sway, to balance it's readyness compared to say, an M4. I would REDUCE the ridiculous cone. You're playing with a weapon that requires great marksmanship, so it shouldn't be that hard to shoot someone standing 3 meters from you consistently, like it is now.

    All in all, the weapon is a bit out of its environment. We need outdoor hilly big maps but that might require 10x or more scopes, which I don't think we have do we?
  • SithHunterSithHunter Posts: 109Player
    edited May 2015

    I see, you're upset because you think I attacked your points as invalid reasoning to tamper with the mechanics of the m24. I never did do that actually, I just attacked the points you claimed other people made. Leaving whateer you said intact as valid points. My entire post could be simplified by "thats wrong". Just saying someones wrong isn't a way to carry an argument or to bring up a valid point for it being true, it's just you uttering your opinion on something and in the end of the day your opinions are worthless because they don't change the way the world are but only how you percieve it as an individual.

    Then this also applies to what you've said, because what we perceive is never a true world as it is but it's a mix of our sensory percepts and our experience which shapes our worldview- and that always interferes with our vision of the world, our thoughts on a subject are only a mental model of this thing and never this thing itself, so by what you've said your opinions don't matter because they don't touch the real object as-it-is but only our idea of this thing.

    And yes, I was upset because I thought you really haven't read my posts and just replied to them, I'm no longer though, because it seems like a simple miss-communication. To clarify my thoughts some further, I think that this thread is better for discussing what could be changed to M24 and what you are talking about- misconceptions concerning M24 use, could be a separate one, which could even be a guide for new players on how to play with and against M24 in current state.
  • Yato^Yato^ Posts: 103Player
    SithHunter wrote: »

    I see, you're upset because you think I attacked your points as invalid reasoning to tamper with the mechanics of the m24. I never did do that actually, I just attacked the points you claimed other people made. Leaving whateer you said intact as valid points. My entire post could be simplified by "thats wrong". Just saying someones wrong isn't a way to carry an argument or to bring up a valid point for it being true, it's just you uttering your opinion on something and in the end of the day your opinions are worthless because they don't change the way the world are but only how you percieve it as an individual.

    Then this also applies to what you've said, because what we perceive is never a true world as it is but it's a mix of our sensory percepts and our experience which shapes our worldview- and that always interferes with our vision of the world, our thoughts on a subject are only a mental model of this thing and never this thing itself, so by what you've said your opinions don't matter because they don't touch the real object as-it-is but only our idea of this thing.

    And yes, I was upset because I thought you really haven't read my posts and just replied to them, I'm no longer though, because it seems like a simple miss-communication. To clarify my thoughts some further, I think that this thread is better for discussing what could be changed to M24 and what you are talking about- misconceptions concerning M24 use, could be a separate one, which could even be a guide for new players on how to play with and against M24 in current state.

    I get that, my take on the this whole thread is quite simple and fits into 1 line. M24 doesnt need a change, the oens complaining needs a change of how they play and approach the game. Try going into a pub server and just spectating people and watch what they're doing. Most of the times when they get shot by that sniper it's their own fault. Meanwhile players who are considered good don't complain about it because they know of a way to move about the map.

    I've used the m24 extensively, you wouldn't believe the amount of hours. So when I speak of the m24 and how it does have weaknessess that clearly strips away it's "OP" status people so happily give to it, it's more than an opinion. It's closer to educated facts and what balance really is when it comes to fundamental game mechanics.
  • SithHunterSithHunter Posts: 109Player
    edited May 2015
    Also, what came to my mind right now, is that some issues we see with M24 might be a by-product of other game mechanics rather than the gun itself, for example in AA2 you would take on a sniper using a rifle using spots on map that would allow you to expose only tip of your head- which is pretty much no longer possible here and you would quickly stand up from crouch- which is also a lot harder now because in AA:PG standing up animation is slower. So if we changed the M24 that it would behave in similar way on a map that it did in AA2 it could no longer fit into the current game.

    Edit because reply came in while writing this:

    I've used the m24 extensively, you wouldn't believe the amount of hours. So when I speak of the m24 and how it does have weaknessess that clearly strips away it's "OP" status people so happily give to it, it's more than an opinion. It's closer to educated facts and what balance really is when it comes to fundamental game mechanics.

    Then I think it would be a very handy read if you made a guide on 'how to play against M24', because usually when I die against it I have to admit it's because of habbits developed in AA2 and AA3
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