M24- what do you think about it?

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  • PredictionPrediction Posts: 132Player
    edited May 2015
    @googly....you be crazy. It is not OP. If I am doing well with the M24 I can almost assure you that I would be doing better with the M4 or saw.

    If I miss my first shot and the other player is of any skill, I'm usually dead.
    If my sight line gets smoked, and one or two guys push me, I'm usually dead.
    Hip fire is terrible, which makes me have to use pistol cqb.
    Bolt cycle time is long.

    I might be one of the few that think the M24 needs to be changed but Demon's video alone shows the run and gun and I have a video myself that I do the same. To be able to run to a spot on the map ads fairly quickly and shoot because the character shows up in pretty HD in your scope vs the M4 from a distance kill then run to another good angle ads shoot kill and repeat this process until you have taken out half the team is just bad game play imo.

    Don't get me started with the saw, I mean do you really need that much ammunition with a better scope then the m4 on top of that throw supported in with a free shield while you are shooting(suppression) and that gun is more op'ed then the M24 but since this topic is about the M24 I will try to stay on topic.

    As for your comment about being dead if your sight line gets smoked and one or two guys push you is wrong because you can pick up weapons so who is to say you don't switch to the m24 you picked up while they are pushing. Plus if smokes are taking out of the game like I read or heard some where because of the performance hit they cause then there goes that plan.

    Maybe the person with the sniper role not be allowed to pick up a secondary weapon as part of the process to evening the playing grounds. I would also like to see a lot more sway after you get done walking to another position or running and maybe a slightly longer ads time. But when I am 10 feet away from a sniper I should win that fight 80% of the time and right now it is probably more 40% of the time.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,607Beta Tester
    I believe the M24 should be powerful and accurate, but should be used to support the team not as an assault-type weapon. We do call these things "Roles" after all....

    I believe the sniper needs movement penalties or something so that he is convinced to take a useful position to help the team instead of running around.

    Having used stuff like this in actual competition (as in, real rifles not videogames) I also think there should be a greater difference between shooting positions....standing, versus prone etc....and there should be a bipod to differentiate it even further. Shooting a rifle is A LOT tougher to do standing or crouched.

    I'd also like to say I'm not to sure I like this "fair game" idea. I'd rather have more challenge and decision options, and I'm very interested in what kind of teamwork could happen if things were IMBALANCED. People just might talk and plan a way to overcome it...and I like that.
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  • [XIII]Benediction[XIII]Benediction Posts: 38Player
    Um... the M24 for me, is a support unit weapon. It creates good suppress fire, when needed, but isn't too easy to handle.

    As soon as you lose a small amount of health, the recoil becomes a struggle. Its a slow, long ranged shotgun. Unreliable dispersion cone, big mags, long reloads, long (in dimensions) gun.

    The Gun really depends on the player's play style, I play it alright and I played it as my first weapon on my first game of AA:PG and have always chose this gun, when available.
  • =IK=SgtBadazz=IK=SgtBadazz Posts: 160Player
    edited May 2015
    IO_i_OI wrote: »
    Time after time, I see new players picking up the M24, camping a few spots, and getting a consistent 17-20 kills per match (on 12v12 maps)

    So your telling me that on 12v12, possibly going to 15 rounds, 20 kills is too much? So someone shot 1-2 stragglers that were crouch-walking in the open, at range, per round. Big deal. Look I'm not saying that someone who has good map awareness, good twitch reflexes, and good muscle memory can't shut down a map with the M24. I'm just saying that that person will do that with any weapon and that 1 M24 is not overpowered.

    As for Dem@n's video. It looks pretty standard to me. He peaked a couple of common spots, responded to a couple of teammates call-outs/sounds of gunfire, and got one lucky hip fire shot. I would add that he would most likely have gotten those kills with any weapon and probably more by not feeling constrained to stay at range due to the poor cqb performance of the M24.

    I think it comes down to some people getting irritated that they have to put up to 5 bullets in someone and the M24 needs up to 2 making them think that they should have won that fight. All I can say is that if I get the jump on someone with the M4 and while his screen is all grey and blurry he pulls off a chest/head shot and I go down.....I tell him nice shot, cause I know it is not so easy.


  • Hey.I.Have.A.GunHey.I.Have.A.Gun Posts: 643Player
    edited May 2015
    Um... the M24 for me, is a support unit weapon. It creates good suppress fire, when needed, but isn't too easy to handle.

    As soon as you lose a small amount of health, the recoil becomes a struggle. Its a slow, long ranged shotgun. Unreliable dispersion cone, big mags, long reloads, long (in dimensions) gun.

    The Gun really depends on the player's play style, I play it alright and I played it as my first weapon on my first game of AA:PG and have always chose this gun, when available.

    I feel like you're confusing the M249 and the M24. That feeling is based both on your post and the one shot you've taken with the M24 in hundreds of hours. ;-)
  • vapor.ivapor.i Posts: 271Player
    It's fine...
    AA2 veteran player / fanboy
  • .dcG-Colts^.dcG-Colts^ Posts: 1,973Player
    This is gonna get thumbed down like mad I'm sure, but I too often miss the M4 with ACOG attached. I dont see people going mad (like they used to back then) that the M16 gets to have it and it's like a laser gun on single shot.. not heard a peep :lol:
    If there was the ability to have 12 m16 acogs on one team you would hear people complaining about.

    Pie charts + Graphs= Very Bad.



  • =IK=.Scooby=IK=.Scooby Posts: 119Player
    My issue with the M24 comes with the fact that you can run and gun with the thing as easily as you can an M4 or M16, and that's dumb. I hate snipers in this game in general but I could at least live with it if they were, you know, snipers, and not people acting like they're riflemen.

    The true test of how easy that gun is to use comes with the fact that I'm probably the worst sniper in FPS history and I can still manage to do well with it.
  • commiekidcommiekid Posts: 3Player
    I miss the days when the m24 actually required skill to use



    And you know what's funny? No-scoping worked in AA2 and no one cared. You could effectively tape a dot to your screen and the bullet would go straight. It wasn't random like in AAPG. Weapon balance was excellent in AA2.
  • SithHunterSithHunter Posts: 109Player
    Make it so it unscope's after every shot...

    Imho it won't change anything really, so it's pointless to put development time into it. Second thing- by the looks of this thread majority of people is happy with how M24 is currently. But if we would be to change anything, the sway while standing and moving (also with holding breath) would needed to be increased to balance out a little bit the zoom and very huge one-hit-kill area on the body. But as I said, not too many people feel the M24 is easier to use than it should be, so I won't expect it to change.
    commiekid wrote: »
    I miss the days when the m24 actually required skill to use

    <video>

    And you know what's funny? No-scoping worked in AA2 and no one cared. You could effectively tape a dot to your screen and the bullet would go straight. It wasn't random like in AAPG. Weapon balance was excellent in AA2.

    Kinda being devil's advocate but it is not true that M24 doesn't require skill to use, it wouldn't give justice to people doing amazing killing sprees with it. It just needs different skills and has different focus than M24 from AA2. In AA2 your main concern was controlling your sway, so you hit what comes in your sight, in AA:PG your main concern is speed- given the easier to control sway, you have to be fast with your aiming and make sure you kill the enemy before he starts firing accurately at you.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 2,789Player
    edited May 2015
    What if the M24 didn't have hold breath so you couldn't be 100% steady. That's the main problem I think..ease of aim.. make it so you have to adjust with the sway
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 3,607Beta Tester
    You can not take two shots without the following sequence on the M24:

    1) Shoot
    1a) Hold fire button to hold scope up.
    2) Release fire button; Unscope
    3) Cycle bolt
    4) Rescope
    5) Shoot

    So...what's this about forcing an unscope between shots??? You can't reload without an Unscope action.
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  • omerta`easyomerta`easy Posts: 46Player
    whiz-bang wrote: »
    I might be one of the few that think the M24 needs to be changed but Demon's video alone shows the run and gun and I have a video myself that I do the same. To be able to run to a spot on the map ads fairly quickly and shoot because the character shows up in pretty HD in your scope vs the M4 from a distance kill then run to another good angle ads shoot kill and repeat this process until you have taken out half the team is just bad game play imo.

    What I saw in Demon's video was him killing a bunch of people that were standing out in the open completely unaware of their surroundings. Most of those kills were kills that I would expect him to get with any gun. Why not fault the players for playing recklessly instead of blaming the m24?

    You are right that the advantage of the m24 is that it has the magnified optics. Everyone in the game should be aware of this advantage. If someone challenges an m24 with an m4 at range they deserve to die. If a player runs out in the open exposing himself to 10 different lines of sight while its obvious the other team still has a sniper up also deserves to die. If you are playing with an m4 and are trying to hold a long range line of sight against a sniper you really should change your play style instead of trying to get the guns changed.
  • .shhfiftyfive-.shhfiftyfive- Posts: 495Player
    edited May 2015
    i think the biggest issue with scopes is the unrestricted view. the new scope for the bolt in the opt in makes it very easy to keep your eyes on the target between shots. you simply aim up to the right between shots and you will be able to see the enemy outside the scope in the bottom left. so if the target moves you can keep an eye on him without even using the scope... i kinda wish, for game purposes, that we would go back to blacking out the screen outside the borders of the scope when ADS. scopes are strong. seeing zoomed outside that scope is a cheese mechanic that should be removed.
  • Yato^Yato^ Posts: 103Player
    The issue isn't the m24, it's less competent players not learning from their mistakes. Adapting to what happend last round only to have it happen a few rounds or days later is not learning. Thats pub server metagame where you say "oh, he's always up there shooting down there so I wont go there".

    If you don't learn that this specific spot is a sure way to get yourself killed or going from A to B the fastest route possible puts you at a much greater risk of getting shot from anyone, not just the m24. Then you're the one at fault, not the game, not your team, not the other team, not the guy with the m24. Same goes for when the m24 user on the other end missed the first shot on you and you decide to stay and challenge a sniper at long range. Entirely your fault.

    The reality of it is that avoiding being shot from the m24 is quite easy when you know the more common and sometimes even obscure spots from which you can snipe from. Now that isnt to say that you should learn every possible locations snipers CAN use but rather the ones that are used the most.

    It's also what was mentioned earlier, people peek too deep since they have no idea of how the camera works. The whole idea of "if I can't see him he can't see me" doesn't apply in videogames without true first person. So instead of putting your face to the wall to peek around the corner and expose you from as many possible locations as possible, take a few steps away from the wall and then peek it, clearing the hallway or what have you bit by bit.

    I know this should be common knowledge but it really isn't on the pub servers where people complain about how OP the m24 allegedly is. With all that said, those of you who think the m24 needs a tweaking will get your wish soon enough. I did play the opt-in beta test and I did use the m24, yet something felt off about it. It wasnt untill I played on FLO_watchdog with it that I realized what was up. The penalties for moving around with it only to sight in and hold your breath were so severe that it wasnt feasible at all anymore. It was so bad that holding your breath to stabilize did next to nothing.

    With that kind of feature you do not only make a weapon with its own drawbacks even weaker than it ought to be but it even slows down the pace of m24 gameplay and rewards you for sitting on your cheeks in some corner of the map camping your heart out.

    Devs can deny doing any changes to the way the weapon handles and honestly I didn't even bother to look into the possiblity of this drawback of sway and lack of effect from holding your breath applies to all weapons equally but the fact remains that the m24 has been silently tweaked in its function on more than 1 occasion. Wether it was for the better or worse is for the entire community to decide. admittedly the tweaks I'm reffering to doesn't solely apply to the weapon in itself but to the way some maps are designed and which walls you can or can't shoot through anymore.

    //end of rant
  • SithHunterSithHunter Posts: 109Player
    edited May 2015
    The issue isn't the m24, it's less competent players not learning from their mistakes. Adapting to what happend last round only to have it happen a few rounds or days later is not learning. Thats pub server metagame where you say "oh, he's always up there shooting down there so I wont go there".

    (...) Stuff to long to quote (...)

    //end of rant

    It's not only about what you are saying here: since it's open beta, we also discuss what type of gameplay we would like to see. For some people EDIT M24 is too easy /EDIT with current sway and they would like to see that changed. For some people it's just the meta-game that you have to adjust to. Maybe I'm naive but I want to believe that if we had such discussion, let's say a year after release it wouldn't be about 'What changes M24 needs' but ' what tactics you use to counter M24'.

    For the sake of it, beta in games is a period for discussing what can and should be changed to achieve gameplay that the game aims for, and remember many people here would like to increase the skill-ceiling of this game as high as possible. And we are pretty much reaching last moment that such discussion is relevant because after Opt-Ins we will get the release.

    Edit because I forgot about this part:

    About this change from Opt-In, if it really is like that I would be against it, because it's artificially nerfing legit playstyle that should be hard but doable- I would revert that and instead increase sway a little bit at all times.
  • IO_i_OIIO_i_OI Posts: 1,107Player
    edited May 2015
    IO_i_OI wrote: »
    Time after time, I see new players picking up the M24, camping a few spots, and getting a consistent 17-20 kills per match (on 12v12 maps)

    So your telling me that on 12v12, possibly going to 15 rounds, 20 kills is too much? So someone shot 1-2 stragglers that were crouch-walking in the open, at range, per round. Big deal. Look I'm not saying that someone who has good map awareness, good twitch reflexes, and good muscle memory can't shut down a map with the M24. I'm just saying that that person will do that with any weapon and that 1 M24 is not overpowered.

    As for Dem@n's video. It looks pretty standard to me. He peaked a couple of common spots, responded to a couple of teammates call-outs/sounds of gunfire, and got one lucky hip fire shot. I would add that he would most likely have gotten those kills with any weapon and probably more by not feeling constrained to stay at range due to the poor cqb performance of the M24.

    I think it comes down to some people getting irritated that they have to put up to 5 bullets in someone and the M24 needs up to 2 making them think that they should have won that fight. All I can say is that if I get the jump on someone with the M4 and while his screen is all grey and blurry he pulls off a chest/head shot and I go down.....I tell him nice shot, cause I know it is not so easy.


    The 17-20 is just a random number (n) of kills to say that a level 10 player can get as much as a level 50 player with the M24. The level 50 player has acquired much skill while the level 10 player is still learning. The problem is the Optics. If the M4 had the same Optics (ACOG) then you would have an equal chance to counter the M24 at equally far distances. There should be a major difference in damage between a .300 win mag over a 5.56 NATO round. 1 shot for the M24 and 3 for the M4.

    Usually, when a player can see the whole map before anyone else then we call it a TOS Violation. I think the M24's optics are a TOS Violation. I also think that anyone who pics or begs for the M24 role is only gaming for quick kills and can care less about playing the game as a team.

    This post is a question about how you feel about the M24. I said what a feel about it.... again and again. What do I think about it? I never liked it. You can have your own opinion.
  • Yato^Yato^ Posts: 103Player
    edited May 2015
    Make it so it unscope's after every shot...
    This wouldn't solve anything since if you're decent with the sniper you shoot and move on. Adding an action that you should already be doing doesn't make the weapon harder to use, it makes it easier.

    SithHunter wrote: »

    It's not only about what you are saying here: since it's open beta, we also discuss what type of gameplay we would like to see. For some people quick-lean shots where it takes less than 0,5 sec to aim are to easy to pull off with current sway and they would like to see that changed. For some people it's just the meta-game that you have to adjust to. Maybe I'm naive but I want to believe that if we had such discussion, let's say a year after release it wouldn't be about 'What changes M24 needs' but ' what tactics you use to counter M24'.


    Leaning and shooting someone can be done with all weapons, yes they all need a headshot to insta kill you apart from the m24 and shotgun but that brings me back to the point I mentioned earlier of people not knowing how to peek a corner properly, if done right (the only way it should be done) you will only expose the top of your head and in worst case a bit of your shoulder. If the optics makes it easier for the m24 because it's at a longer distance it's once again your fault taking a duel you almost always will lose.

    IO_i_OI wrote: »


    The 17-20 is just a random number (n) of kills to say that a level 10 player can get as much as a level 50 player with the M24. The level 50 player has acquired much skill while the level 10 player is still learning. The problem is the Optics. If the M4 had the same Optics (ACOG) then you would have an equal chance to counter the M24 at equally far distances. There should be a major difference in damage between a .300 win mag over a 5.56 NATO round. 1 shot for the M24 and 3 for the M4.

    Usually, when a player can see the whole map before anyone else then we call it a TOS Violation. I think the M24's optics are a TOS Violation. I also think that anyone who pics or begs for the M24 role is only gaming for quick kills and can care less about playing the game as a team.

    This post is a question about how you feel about the M24. I said what a feel about it.... again and again. What do I think about it? I never liked it. You can have your own opinion.

    m14 EBR can also have the mk4 scope, it needs 2 hits to kill. isn't that close enough or are you arguing for implenting a weapon that triumphs both the sniper and the m4 because of its optics? Wouldnt that be the very definition of overpowered when something is inherently better in every possible way?

    Then you go on and speak of playing as a team, as I recall, both teams can have a 1 sniper and 2 designatedmarksmen. Thats 3 players or 1/5 of either team with these magical scopes that are so gamebreaking.

    And just to nitpick, acog is NOT the same as mk4. Far from it.


    Edit: To clarify where I'm going with this, to raise the skill ceiling you should give more options in how to apply the weapon efficiently instead of minimizing every weapons utility to fit a very niche role. Raising the skill ceiling also decreases the need for teamwork, yes. But that only applies if the other team is already better than the other on an individual basis. In the end, teamwork is still essential when up against a team of close to equal or caliber.
  • SithHunterSithHunter Posts: 109Player
    edited May 2015



    SithHunter wrote: »

    It's not only about what you are saying here: since it's open beta, we also discuss what type of gameplay we would like to see. For some people quick-lean shots where it takes less than 0,5 sec to aim are to easy to pull off with current sway and they would like to see that changed. For some people it's just the meta-game that you have to adjust to. Maybe I'm naive but I want to believe that if we had such discussion, let's say a year after release it wouldn't be about 'What changes M24 needs' but ' what tactics you use to counter M24'.


    Leaning and shooting someone can be done with all weapons, yes they all need a headshot to insta kill you apart from the m24 and shotgun but that brings me back to the point I mentioned earlier of people not knowing how to peek a corner properly, if done right (the only way it should be done) you will only expose the top of your head and in worst case a bit of your shoulder. If the optics makes it easier for the m24 because it's at a longer distance it's once again your fault taking a duel you almost always will lose.

    You took the least important part of my post, decided to bash it when I didn't even say if that was OP or not- it was just an example of what people can disagree on. Please read my post once again, because I have a feeling you haven't understood it at all.

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