Posted: 16 Aug 2009 02:12

First of all, I don't intend to make a wall of post, but I'd like to bring up a few issues with an interesting suggestion that could be used to resolve this. I'll try to keep it simple.

I was reading a thread earlier, which generated a thought from me that I think might work as far as gameplay is concerned.

My post on the other thread offered me to expand this idea a little. I don't have a final plan for it, so I'm sort of creating it on the fly, and hopefully refine it over time. Here's what I looked into:

Lilith wrote:

This is more of a suggestion to add to this, but what if the devs added the option to enable, or disable, training requirements for server-side admins to help? This is something that might be useful for AA2 as well, that would be in addition to certain maps that require them. Just something to think about.

http://forum.americasarmy.com/...2872134

The idea is pretty simple: It doesn't have to be enforced on the maps or the game. It'll be a server-side option that somehow gives the admin a list of training requirements that players would need to meet in order to enter the server and play. You could add depth to this by adjusting things like minimum scores the player has to meet or exceed in order to be allowed to play on the server.

As it stands, servers end up vulnerable to the open encouragement of players who attempt to cheat (unless, of course, PB isn't enabled on the server), or take advantage of the gameplay over other players, especially their teammates (you'll see why later). The only part that reduces this, is that server-side option that allows for a minimum and maximum set of honor levels. Especially in AA2's case (which is what I can only play these days), however, this does nothing to say how much skill one has, but their experience through racking up points.

I wanted to add to the original message, (if this gets passed up) saying that something like what I had suggested, could also curb the FR union from seeking to just "level up". What makes a team work, is when everyone does their job the way they're supposed to, and not go AWOL from the mission and the team. We know the plan never survives the enemy, but it's never been said that it'd get fouled up by the muck-ups on the team. Combat skills must factor into the plan, right?

Inadvertedly, something like this'll probably encourage people to hone their soldiering skills a little better. I've seen some bad apples in my day, and I'd hope to change this a bit. I know some people just think of it as a game, but everytime that happens, the message gets sifted through the sieve. Shortcuts just aren't going to work, especially when people are already about E-8s due to their apparent "uber" honor skills and banking their coin collections. I'm not saying that they're wrong, but there is more to it than that, and this is taken for granted. Likewise with AA2 being riddled with Rambos and lone wolves, AA3 isn't excluded from this either.

If you're not convinced - if it's any indication - AA2 had a saying in game "that may be your way, but that's not the Army way". After all, other players may not want players who can't either keep up with their level, or far surpass it without care. Servers that care may want to have this option.

If there is any other recommendation to add, please speak your piece. I hope the Devs would get interested in this to work on for both versions, after they fix the bugs of course. I consider this to be a work in progress for now.

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 20:48

I totally agree and support and sign your request. Your idea is innovative, progressive, and shows itself to be full of potential.

This will fine-tune the existing settings for honor limit/requirement.

Thanks for posting, and thanks for reading this.

Posted: 21 Aug 2009 00:06

Your welcome

Posted: 22 Aug 2009 10:21

I am not sure how completing certain training or certain scores would help. Everyone always wants to complete all the training on their main account and usually on their second account. Maybe the 3 through whatever accounts they don't but I don't see how this would help at all.

The only thing about honor level caps is then you will see more people using second accounts that still have all training done so that wouldn't help either. Plus the server owners squad will always be leveling up as well so that will only work for a short period of time.

The best way to protect your server is still the good old admin and a list of rules in script. If they don't follow then just kick them.

Posted: 22 Aug 2009 22:38

worldf wrote:

I am not sure how completing certain training or certain scores would help. Everyone always wants to complete all the training on their main account and usually on their second account. Maybe the 3 through whatever accounts they don't but I don't see how this would help at all. The only thing about honor level caps is then you will see more people using second accounts that still have all training done so that wouldn't help either. Plus the server owners squad will always be leveling up as well so that will only work for a short period of time. The best way to protect your server is still the good old admin and a list of rules in script. If they don't follow then just kick them.

Negative. There is no script to my knowledge that ensures a player has completed certain training and passed with a certain score they designate. Their scripts don't always work well against handling newer players. Adjusting honor cap limits don't help people learn to train, it'll make them "level up" to reach it. Would you rather have inexperienced Skippy McDiealot handling an M24 against people with more experience? It becomes a backstabbing, trash-talking haven. TKs galore, accidental or not. You really would not want to die at the expense of enjoying the game that someone has ruined for you.

I'm not saying that ALL servers must have this. I'm saying it is an option. It's a tool to help servers control who plays on the server and manage slot availability.

Servers can set what people need to have in order to help them with their training. I don't mean with private covens, but for public functions like the Mentor program that may want to expand concentration of certain skills, while not wasting anyone else's time. It is understadable that people need training first, but it is set aside apart from general gameplay. That's why people don't see MILES servers often. One has to ask a server owner to set aside time. It's like the SF maps You can't play them if you aren't within the 15 honor minimum and have passed SERE School. There is no reason to send someone non-SF on an SF mission specifically. It doesn't work that way in the Army, and it shouldn't happen here.

It is one thing to learn about how to operate equipment. It is an enirely another subject to qualify for it and being fair to everyone.

Posted: 22 Aug 2009 23:41

Lilith wrote:

worldf wrote: I am not sure how completing certain training or certain scores would help. Everyone always wants to complete all the training on their main account and usually on their second account. Maybe the 3 through whatever accounts they don't but I don't see how this would help at all. The only thing about honor level caps is then you will see more people using second accounts that still have all training done so that wouldn't help either. Plus the server owners squad will always be leveling up as well so that will only work for a short period of time. The best way to protect your server is still the good old admin and a list of rules in script. If they don't follow then just kick them. Would you rather have inexperienced Skippy McDiealot handling an M24 against people with more experience? It becomes a backstabbing, trash-talking haven. TKs galore, accidental or not. You really would not want to die at the expense of enjoying the game that someone has ruined for you.

Yes I would be fine with that as long as he or she has passed the training for it. How else are they gonna learn to use it on the battlefield? As far as that goes I think what you are trying to have implemented would hurt new players ability to learn. One of the best ways to get better fast is to play against good players more often so if you keep inexperienced players out of the servers they can't learn as fast.

Posted: 22 Aug 2009 23:47

That's a bad excuse. You would be fine with someone who has the training, but not one who hasn't. This isn't about hurting them. It's to curb the thinking that one can just "level up" without doing what everyone else did and worked hard on it. If it's their ability to learn, then it isn't an issue for someone who did learn. Newer players can't learn fast if they're being mowed like grass by more experienced players - there's a cap limit to that. Playing with someone their level is not an accurate measure of one's skills. Why not eliminate that frustration in finding specific servers on filters that serve them on their needs as well as their skills?

Posted: 23 Aug 2009 01:24

You cannot use the sniper if you haven't done the training. The army made it like that from the beginning to curb the problem you are talking about. As far as training goes there isn't much an untrained soldier can do, hence the reason for IF soldiers on sf maps.

Posted: 23 Aug 2009 11:13

worldf wrote:

You cannot use the sniper if you haven't done the training. The army made it like that from the beginning to curb the problem you are talking about. As far as training goes there isn't much an untrained soldier can do, hence the reason for IF soldiers on sf maps.

No, but it doesn't prevent one from hogging the slot.

By the way, the problem never was curbed. If you ask people, they'll say it is just a game. It's not really as simple as that.

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 00:38

Just because you can't think of a better idea doesn't make Lilth's idea bad. Admit it, it's a helpful and nice idea.

Don't try to make stuff up or throw red herrings into Lilth's hat, it won't work. Just hope the Devs change the game to include features for which Lilth, a valued community member, has asked.

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 02:21

No, I don't agree, The Dev's all ready have a nice thing going. If it was the way he said new players would have a hard time playing.

Posted: 29 Aug 2009 02:37

worldf wrote:

No, I don't agree, The Dev's all ready have a nice thing going. If it was the way he said new players would have a hard time playing.

Not all of them.

If you can search for servers using the filters to find servers with min/max honor limits, there's no reason you cannot do the same by applying which training a server allows/disallows. It's just an extra feature, it may, or may not have any effect on new players because it depends on the players.

The same reason one can't just join SF and get the SOPMOD without the training for it. Skippy McDiealot will be using an AK, but it doesn't mean he can use it as effectively as a trained SF Soldier who has extra assets like scopes and other tools and equipment he needs to complete the mission. More experienced players will be on a server that prefers more mature/experienced gameplay. Other servers can prefer a mix, or maybe have lopsided teams, or open a server specially for training purposes only.