Posted: 03 Nov 2009 09:01

http://www.washingtonexaminer....ng.html

Quote:

You won’t find too many defenders of George W. Bush’s record on spending these days, even among Republicans. But a check of historical tables compiled by the Office of Management and Budget shows that the spending that so distressed Pelosi and Reid seems downright modest today. After beginning with a Clinton-era surplus of $128 billion in fiscal year 2001, the Bush administration racked up deficits of $158 billion in 2002, $378 billion in 2003, $413 billion in 2004, $318 billion in 2005, $248 billion in 2006, $162 billion in 2007, and $410 billion in 2008. The current administration would kill to have such small numbers. President Barack Obama is unveiling his budget this week, and, in addition to the inherited Bush deficit, he’s adding his own spending at an astonishing pace, projecting annual deficits well beyond $1 trillion in the near future, and, in the rosiest possible scenario, a $533 billion deficit in fiscal year 2013, the last year of Obama’s first term.

$1 trillion deficit. Say that again, $1 trillion deficit. We're not even talking about the bailouts / TARP money or Healthcare money here, we're talking only about Obama's spending budget...

Obama's best forcasted year is higher then Bush's worst spending year and Obama's worst year is more then twice Bush's.... That's insanity.

Pelosi and Reid had it right - this type of spending is unpatriotic, irresponsible and dangerous and they, along with Obama, are culpable in this.

Obama is going to devistate this countries economy so hard that it will be forced to simply end Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, public health care and every other social program, as well as cutting back if not ending most if not all non-social programs (military, NASA, endowments, etc etc) simply to pay off the debt he is creating for this country.

It is unpatriotic, irresponsible, dangerous and simply disgusting for him to spend the way he is spending.

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 09:59

Personally, I don't see any country ever paying off any deficit ever, maybe it just be better just to "wipe" it and deal with the aftermath of that.

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 10:00

When an country has budget deficit it's not unusual to try to size it down by taking credit from IMF or similar financial institution, or commercial bank. That credit can be easily transferred to next years deficit, but also can be hidden under guise of "payment's are not yet due" argument. So to say who is spending more unreasonable you need much more detailed analysis of budget structure, especially expense column. Those numbers presented in such way are at least inconclusive, if not outright misleading.

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 10:22

Gligorijevic[75thR] wrote:

When an country has budget deficit it's not unusual to try to size it down by taking credit from IMF or similar financial institution, or commercial bank. That credit can be easily transferred to next years deficit, but also can be hidden under guise of "payment's are not yet due" argument. So to say who is spending more unreasonable you need much more detailed analysis of budget structure, especially expense column. Those numbers presented in such way are at least inconclusive, if not outright misleading.

Feel free to support your statements with something that is even vaguely a fact, then you can come back and claim my actual facts are inconclusive or misleading. Deal?

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 10:23

Worry about jobs first, growth second, and debt/deficit spending last.

Your approach to healing our economy amounts to taking the patient off life-support and instead relying on prayer groups to bring it back to health.

Dancu wrote:

Obama is going to devistate this countries economy so hard that it will be forced to simply end Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, public health care and every other social program, as well as cutting back if not ending most if not all non-social programs (military, NASA, endowments, etc etc) simply to pay off the debt he is creating for this country.

"Stating such with nothing to support your statement is simply garbage. Your knack for pretending your analysis comments, completely unsupported and without any actual analysis, have any validity is without rival. Unfortunately, it is also without merit."

Sound familiar?


SOL

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 10:59

SlaveOfLogic wrote:

Worry about jobs first, growth second, and debt/deficit spending last.

No, this high level of spending will continue well beyond 2009 and even 2010 by Obama's on numbers. So it's far more then simply about jobs & growth.

projecting annual deficits well beyond $1 trillion in the near future, and, in the rosiest possible scenario, a $533 billion deficit in fiscal year 2013, the last year of Obama’s first term.

Quote:

Your approach to healing our economy amounts to taking the patient off life-support and instead relying on prayer groups to bring it back to health.

Your approach is to so heavily medicate the patient that they die from the drugs meant to treat the flu.

Quote:

Dancu wrote: Obama is going to devistate this countries economy so hard that it will be forced to simply end Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, public health care and every other social program, as well as cutting back if not ending most if not all non-social programs (military, NASA, endowments, etc etc) simply to pay off the debt he is creating for this country. "Stating such with nothing to support your statement is simply garbage. Your knack for pretending your analysis comments, completely unsupported and without any actual analysis, have any validity is without rival. Unfortunately, it is also without merit."

I provided the facts to support my statement. Maybe you missed the whole trillion dollar deficit part, or perhaps the link to the article?

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 11:05

I must say, I find it simply astonishing that anyone, no matter what party they support, can defend and even support this extreme level of spending... We are bankrypting our country and putting it into so much debt it will take decades to pay it off if we even can.

Bush's spending was out of control. It was crazy. However, Obama is doubling down. That is insanity.

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 11:32

Dancu - you do realise that officially your country is now out of recession according to the world bank - you actually have growth again - and why because of what Obama has done. He followed what our own government here did and it worked for your country - its taking slightly longer for it to work for us.

BTW those estimates on the debt are just that estimates based on a very slow increase in revenue or as it appears from the figures they are assuming negative growth. which is obviously not the case. these are just scaremonger tactics put out to frighten the american public.

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 11:55

Dancu wrote:

I must say, I find it simply astonishing that anyone, no matter what party they support, can defend and even support this extreme level of spending... We are bankrypting our country and putting it into so much debt it will take decades to pay it off if we even can. Bush's spending was out of control. It was crazy. However, Obama is doubling down. That is insanity.

When you don't understand it, then maybe look at some news-channels who bring good news. Which means: Presenting facts and causes you can rely on.
The current situation is the result of 25 year wrong fiancial policy.

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 13:18

Dancu wrote:

SlaveOfLogic wrote: Worry about jobs first, growth second, and debt/deficit spending last. No, this high level of spending will continue well beyond 2009 and even 2010 by Obama's on numbers. So it's far more then simply about jobs & growth. projecting annual deficits well beyond $1 trillion in the near future, and, in the rosiest possible scenario, a $533 billion deficit in fiscal year 2013, the last year of Obama’s first term.

Can't pay off ANY debt without jobs and growth. So yeah, I think it's pretty simple...

Dancu wrote:

Quote: Your approach to healing our economy amounts to taking the patient off life-support and instead relying on prayer groups to bring it back to health. Your approach is to so heavily medicate the patient that they die from the drugs meant to treat the flu.

So glad to hear all our economy had was a case of the sniffles...

Dancu wrote:

Quote: Dancu wrote: Obama is going to devistate this countries economy so hard that it will be forced to simply end Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, public health care and every other social program, as well as cutting back if not ending most if not all non-social programs (military, NASA, endowments, etc etc) simply to pay off the debt he is creating for this country. "Stating such with nothing to support your statement is simply garbage. Your knack for pretending your analysis comments, completely unsupported and without any actual analysis, have any validity is without rival. Unfortunately, it is also without merit." I provided the facts to support my statement. Maybe you missed the whole trillion dollar deficit part, or perhaps the link to the article?

Your article and "facts" said nothing about the dire consequences which you describe above.

Dancu wrote:

Feel free to support your statements with something that is even vaguely a fact, then you can come back and claim my actual facts are inconclusive or misleading. Deal?

Why do you think you should be able to hold others to higher standards than you apply to yourself?


SOL

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 14:40

Danlo wrote:

Dancu - you do realise that officially your country is now out of recession according to the world bank - you actually have growth again - and why because of what Obama has done. He followed what our own government here did and it worked for your country - its taking slightly longer for it to work for us.

This deficit spending does not include the stabilization spending. If we included stabilization spending, which I'm not suggesting we do, it would be multiple trillions more.

The numbers are so dizzying that McConnell and his fellow Republicans are trying to “connect the dots” — that is, to explain to the public how all of those discrete spending initiatives add up to a previously unthinkable total. Obama’s current spending proposals, Republicans point out, will cost more than the United States spent on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the general war on terror and Hurricane Katrina in the last seven years. And that’s before you throw in the $2 trillion fiscal stabilization plan.

Obama is spending trillions on stabilization spending, ok (kinda), but then he's ALSO racking up an additional trillion dollars in deficit spending that arn't for stabilization spending.

Quote:

BTW those estimates on the debt are just that estimates based on a very slow increase in revenue or as it appears from the figures they are assuming negative growth. which is obviously not the case. these are just scaremonger tactics put out to frighten the american public.

Such massive numbers should frighten anyone that reads them, no scare tactics needed.

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 15:09

SlaveOfLogic wrote:

Dancu wrote: SlaveOfLogic wrote: Worry about jobs first, growth second, and debt/deficit spending last. No, this high level of spending will continue well beyond 2009 and even 2010 by Obama's on numbers. So it's far more then simply about jobs & growth. projecting annual deficits well beyond $1 trillion in the near future, and, in the rosiest possible scenario, a $533 billion deficit in fiscal year 2013, the last year of Obama’s first term. Can't pay off ANY debt without jobs and growth. So yeah, I think it's pretty simple...

And you can't pay any debt off if you continue to spend like a maniac when you're already massively in the hole.

“We pay in interest four times more than we spend on education and four times what it will cost to cover 10 million children with health insurance for five years,” Pelosi said in 2007.

Nancy Pelosi said that in 2007. If we didn't have debt, just imagine how much education spending or health insurance we could provide. Instead of leading us toward financial independence, Obama is leading us the opposite way where we have less money to pay for education and health insurance and anything else.

Quote:

Your article and "facts" said nothing about the dire consequences which you describe above.

The "facts" I provided support my expressed concerns. I said this is what I think is going to happen and I supported my statement with an article of what I believe will cause it to happen - Obama's extreme spending.

If you don't agree with my opinion, that's fine. And I encourage you to disprove my facts with your own facts. But to say my opinion wasn't supported when it absolutely and clearly was, is without merit.

Quote:

Why do you think you should be able to hold others to higher standards than you apply to yourself?

I don't think anything of the sort - I think you are simply failing to understand.

I provided the information, the numbers, the statements by Democrats, upon which I based my opinion. If you ask me what I based my statements on, I would reference you right back to the thread I linked and detail out what causes me concern and if it helped I'd pull bits of text out, which I've already done a few times.

On the other hand, Gligorijevic[75thR] said the information I provided was inconclusive, even possibely misleading. But didn't provide any basis for that statement. He provided no links to show that Obama's spending isn't as bad as it seems. No links that show my numbers are bad. Nothing. Just completely unsupported opinion.

And while anyone is free to express their completely unsupported opinion, myself included, if you are going to counter actual facts that have been provided, you'll need more then your completely unsupported opinion to do so.

So again, there is no double standard here - there's one standard and it isn't complicated.

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 15:55

IronWarrior wrote:

Personally, I don't see any country ever paying off any deficit ever, maybe it just be better just to "wipe" it and deal with the aftermath of that.

That's what I've always been saying.

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 16:26

W@@dy wrote:

IronWarrior wrote: Personally, I don't see any country ever paying off any deficit ever, maybe it just be better just to "wipe" it and deal with the aftermath of that. That's what I've always been saying.

Maybe. But right now we're so deep in debt we're paying more in interest payments then 4 times our education budget. That's out of control.

Posted: 03 Nov 2009 17:10

Dancu wrote:

W@@dy wrote: IronWarrior wrote: Personally, I don't see any country ever paying off any deficit ever, maybe it just be better just to "wipe" it and deal with the aftermath of that. That's what I've always been saying. Maybe. But right now we're so deep in debt we're paying more in interest payments then 4 times our education budget. That's out of control.

Well our education isn't exactly up there...