UMM's dead?

TheBaDaBing!TheBaDaBing! Posts: 372Player
edited May 1 in General Discussion
User made maps were a struggle before with only a few servers running them but it's still not got any better now almost a year after they were implemented into the game....

The building of shaders sucks and puts people off.

The quality of most maps are not good enough

The certain servers that run them are bias towards AA2/AA3 remakes that play badly but it's okay to them because of the memories.

Also bias towards terrible maps their clan members make regardless of quality.

Some server admins fill their server rotation with 20 UMMs which puts people off having to download 20 maps.

Only 2 new UMM's have been posted on the new forums so far

I have no idea how the map shaders work with the engine but is there no way to package them already built with the map or are they client specific?

oK5CLZA.jpg

Comments

  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 433Player
    I think they should consider bringing back UMM of the week servers, to help give them at least a fighting chance of seeing the public eye.. However even back when they were a thing, they weren't terribly popular.

    As for shaders, it is indeed an Unreal engine thing.. unavoidable, even if you shipped a copy of the pre-compiled shader file after building, and somehow managed for that to automatically overwrite the original on your client, you would have to then re-compile the shaders for all the other maps you may have already built, as they will have got replaced by the one you just downloaded.


  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 640Player, Beta Tester
    Once the whole umm system gets polished ..whenever that will be, one would think for release ..then we'll see what happens. ..I'm not against playing some umm.
    However I agree about clan servers using a clan mates map even though it's bad...poor decision, Will empty a server

    There are a few I'd like to run on our server, however until it works I'm not touching her with your stick.
  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 217Player, Beta Tester
    I've stopped development of my map for now. It's just not worth it.
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 433Player
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    I've stopped development of my map for now. It's just not worth it.

    I've been of that same mindset since Christmas, especially after the mapping contest and all that exposure to new user maps that to be quite honest didn't hail results.. I mean nobody even played the competition maps that were hosted on the official servers, so just how people voted and came to conclusions, to have a viable and credible say on what maps they actually enjoyed.. I have no idea :lol:

    This is why the devs picked the best map, (and pick the best they did) so when the community backlashed and said "hey, why did you put poll when you pick them yourself"..the answer to that was simple, because frankly the AA players didn't even give the whole thing the time of day. So much so.. I doubt they will do another one, I would be surprised if they did anyway.

    Until a day comes where making UMMs is worth it, lets face it nobody wants to make something nobody will play, then yes it's pointless making them. It's not all a lack of support from AA, infact they have supplied us with the means to do it in the first place, if that's not support what is? it's rather the players themselves choosing not to make use of them, if that's a combo of potentially crap maps and awkwardness of the whole UMM process then it's a question of what else can be done to alleviate and help the situation?


  • Keebler750Keebler750 Posts: 217Player, Beta Tester
    It's ease of delivery, update, synchronization and use. Or lack thereof.
  • .!.dgodfather.!.dgodfather Posts: 139Player
    edited May 1
    Keebler750 wrote: »
    I've stopped development of my map for now. It's just not worth it.

    I started with excitement like the rest, that excitement squandered over time, and I stopped working on it a long time ago as I realized that UMMs and their implementation hasn't been strongly supported. It leaves most of us thinking "what's the point?". It's unfortunate, because there are some pretty good UMMs out there.
    image

    Can YOU handle the frag?

    You bunch of fools!

    Add me on Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197991738203/
  • [eSC]General.Jung[eSC]General.Jung Posts: 138Player
    edited May 1
    The system is currently not very reliable.
    -
    - auto-download on connect and mapchange
    - delivering the shader maps via the download process
    - improved minimap support in UDK (not sure what the current problem is)
    -
    There is a custom map server I really enjoy to play, where custom maps and AA2 maps are running. Futhermore there is a collection page on the steam workshop where all maps on this server are listed:
    -
    http://battletracker.com/aa4server/108.61.242.202:8777:27015/
    -
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=394572414
    -
    Highest population occurs between 2000-0500 UTC and the server is located in chicago.
    Greetings from Germany. General.Jung.
    Root-Administrator of http://esportcommunity.com/

    HARDEN HC mode and RELEASE LINUX Binaries !
  • DeltaKiloDeltaKilo Posts: 68Player, Administrator, Developer
    We do want to support the community maps and have worked to improve the download/build/play process. A large part of it is out of our control though, and I'm not saying this to say that there isn't still more we can do. You shouldn't expect one person making a map to make something in a month or two, working part time, to develop something to the same quality as a team of people working on a map for 2-3 months full time.

    The shaders are built per-object in the map. If a map creator uses assets that we provide the shaders will already be built in the global shader cache that is shipped with the game. Custom assets get built and placed in the local shader cache - which is one file for all local shaders, so you can't build shaders and distribute them with your map. When a map is loading the game checks every asset as it gets loaded to see if shaders need to be built for that asset.
    [Dev]TearKeebler750TheTots[ENG]Uni-SolSithHunter
  • [eSC]General.Jung[eSC]General.Jung Posts: 138Player
    I count on the nice full-featured ingame menu, I am really happy about that step. The biggest problem currently on the shader map topic is, that if a server changes the map and have to recompile them you gets kicked into a blank screen. I mean I know that I have to wait and to enter reconnect after a few minutes but especially new players don't want to get stressed with that or just don't know what to do.
    [ENG]Uni-Sol
    Greetings from Germany. General.Jung.
    Root-Administrator of http://esportcommunity.com/

    HARDEN HC mode and RELEASE LINUX Binaries !
  • TheBaDaBing!TheBaDaBing! Posts: 372Player
    edited May 1
    Thinking more about it, the quality of map does not matter because even maps like Deltas jail or Wolv's Csar don't get much love.

    The whole shader compiling side of things kills it for me. Before it was just the download step to get a custom map and play it. You join the server the in game loading bar downloads the custom server files 1 by one and done.

    With AAPG there is now 2 steps downloading and compiling which sucks. The downloading is done in the steam browser which is not as good as in game but not the worst thing in the world but then you have to compile them aswell. I know you only have to do it once for each map but this stops the already small userbase from joining one of those servers because of the hurdles. Its too much hassle for the average player.
    oK5CLZA.jpg
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 433Player
    edited May 1
    I don't think it would be so bad if the game could somehow feedback to you what its doing, instead of having a blackscreen for up to ten minutes, have some kind of visual prompt at least letting you know the thing is doing something. I don't know, maybe a loading/progress bar, a screenshot.. anything.

    There are probably many people who just 'assume' something aint working just because of that blackscreen, so probably just kill the process or assume the computer froze and hard reset, or after that 10 minute wait on a blackscreen get nothing but the tires screen after, not knowing they will have to reload the map again.. after all that debacle the chances of them even trying another UMM are minutely slim to none.
    Keebler750


  • -=}WoLvErInE{=--=}WoLvErInE{=- Posts: 138Player, Beta Tester
    Honestly, There is a very easy fix for all this. But I don't think it would ever happen because of the product we have here. I'm not speaking for anyone or against anyone here. The truth is the engine does have redirect feature, it also has compression feature. If these 2 things were to be implemented most of the problems would go away with the UMM's. However, being its a government game, it has to be held close to the vest. I was really surprised when they actually gave us the mission editor. Remember back with AA2 when we got the ME? You couldn't even import stuff because of the fear of people exploiting it.

    Not speaking for the dev's here, but I'm sure if they had it totally their way and this was an indie title...I can [TOS Violation] grantee you we'd have that feature by now.

    The reason workshop is being used is, so they can keep an eye on what it being put out....so people are not taking advantage of things.

    With redirect you really can't do that. Because anyone can make anything and upload it to their server, and you download it via redirect instantly and play the map.


    The day I saw the announcement about them releasing a ME, I was ecstatic, happy as [TOS Violation]. But I was also worried because I had a feeling workshop was going to be implemented and it would turn into disaster just like all the other games I modded for. You guys can go back and dig up all my post about it, and see how I saw this day coming.


    I've been around the unreal engine since 1998, and the only way custom content has worked, wa/is via compression and redirect. Nothing else.

    So until that gets implemented, or someone comes up with a new way of doing it. Workshop is not the answer, and that's fine if people think i'm wrong about SWS, IMO it blows.

    [eSC]General.Jung

  • [eSC]General.Jung[eSC]General.Jung Posts: 138Player
    Yea I remembering the HTTP redirecting feature since UE2 at least.
    Greetings from Germany. General.Jung.
    Root-Administrator of http://esportcommunity.com/

    HARDEN HC mode and RELEASE LINUX Binaries !
  • -=}WoLvErInE{=--=}WoLvErInE{=- Posts: 138Player, Beta Tester
    Yes, It's still there. Killing Floor 2 just released as an early access. They also released the ME editor. And many servers have them, and people are playing the UMM's

    You know I should test out the feature in this game, I never have it might be there and working too. :D

  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 433Player
    I know absolutely nothing of all that.. it sounds good though :) but I think in this respect your right about subject matter and potential for exploitation, so we gotta try and work with what we got I guess, it makes total sense they would want to keep an eye on what people are making. I'm sure they look into various ways to make it better and easier for us, but I assume with how things are, there's always going to be hoops needed to jump through to get there. It is what it is and we can only hope for improvements.

    Just think, there was a time where people would actually look up instructions and stop at nothing to get something to work and find out why it wouldn't, then go ahead and follow them instructions, sometimes needing to fix it themselves and would go to the effort to do it, no questions asked..nowadays I think most people are too impatient and expect stuff to work perfectly, instantly and without issue. Times have changed and unless something works like something else they have used or played does, it's not given the time of day or chance.

    I find myself using my positive energy on the whole concept of UMM's to congratulate others on their hard work, rather than (trying) to make maps myself. I have to say is a great thing to have a map editor at our disposal for many, many reasons, not least helping the longevity of the game. We just desperately need people to start actually playing them, I honestly thought people would tire of the same maps, over and over.. then turn to UMM's naturally for a change, it would appear the current process and players reluctance to jump the hoops, is actually what's stopping that natural progression and that's a real shame.
    -=}WoLvErInE{=-[eSC]General.Jung


  • -colts.iog--colts.iog- Posts: 459Player
    It took me forever to join the US Army UMM US thing last night I kept getting the tire screen. I had to delete and redownload the map many times. Very frustrating could see some people giving up trying pretty quickly.

  • -=D3G=-V@POR-=D3G=-V@POR Posts: 132Player
    Took people 3 or 4 tries to get into our server with a UMM....this is exactly why people don't like joining them. I'm all for supporting UMM's but make it SEAMLESS to use them on our servers and players able to join them easier.

    Tire screen, Tire screen, Tire screen...oh it loaded the 4th time around.
    -colts.iog-Keebler750[ENG]Uni-Sol`xinoN
    vapor_aapg.png
  • SithHunterSithHunter Posts: 109Player
    Is there any way to alter the timeout limit while loading map? Currently best method of joining UMMs is compiling shaders in ME because of that dreaded timeout.
  • =IK=Doba==IK=Doba= Posts: 640Player, Beta Tester
    It worked we for me. . the loading time was longer but it worked first time
  • [ENG]Uni-Sol[ENG]Uni-Sol Posts: 433Player
    edited May 2
    If everyone follows the instructions on the other thread (announcement of UMM compilation) and build each map in the launcher by going to editor - manage and clicking on the yellow Build text infront of the map names.. and do them all before you join the server it should be fine.

    Not saying it's not laborious, but it will save you from waiting on blackscreens for up to 10 mins and getting tirescreens.


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